Where Do We Go From Here?

Discussion in 'Cleveland Browns' started by TopDawg, Oct 2, 2017.

  1. IrishDawg42 Legend Manager Browns Buckeyes Fighting Irish

    A healthy Colt McCoy? I will take that every day of the week. His injury cost him a professional career, which is also why I am worried Andrew Luck's career is over. Drew Brees aside, shoulder injuries are more times than not, career changers...Look out for Aaron Rodgers also...Packers are a different team without him as well..
     
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  2. IrishDawg42 Legend Manager Browns Buckeyes Fighting Irish

    No, you only talk about when you are right, you fail to admit when you are wrong, which makes it seem like you are right in your mind because that is all you talk about when it comes to your past posts.
     
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  3. TopDawg Legend

    SAS likes this.
  4. TopDawg Legend

    The attempt at A.J. McCarron would seem to indicate that Hue Jackson, misguided as he may be, wants to win a football game this season. Which is why it's VERY difficult to understand why we keep starting Kizer. I guess everybody thought Goff was a bust last year under Steve Fischer regime, and look at him now. Does anybody think a coaching change could miraculously turn Kizer around in similar fashion? I don't think so either, but I do believe better coaching and scheming could help him. The main problem with Kizer is his woeful accuracy, and I don't know if it's fixable. I would like to think his decision making would be something he could improve on, but if he can't put the ball where it needs to be, what's the difference? DK is a project that should NOT be playing right now. How Hue figures Kizer gives him a better chance to win than Kessler would, is a mystery to me. It seems pretty obvious that Kizer is lost. I know the kid was put into a really bad situation, but he has been just awful. When the O-line gives an NFL prospect time, as ours has done all year, some production is expected. Taking our crappy WR corp into account, Kizer is still terrible...It's hard for me to say who is hurting the Browns MORE right now, between Hue and Deshone, but I'd lean towards Kizer since he's the one with the football. Let Kessler have another shot, and we might win. Though I'm not certain the Browns want that...
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2017
  5. SAS M.V.P. Rams Chargers

    No.
     
  6. SAS M.V.P. Rams Chargers

  7. SAS M.V.P. Rams Chargers

    Fun (Analytic) Fact!!

    Baker Mayfield has the nation's highest composite QB score (an analytic metric) among all passers in the NCAA this season.

    To whom did the top spot belong to last season?

    [​IMG]
     
  8. SAS M.V.P. Rams Chargers

    They threw the word "sabotage" around a lot with that deal. Here's a sub-plot that deals with sabotage but not from Sashi's side:



    Wait a minute....

    Is Jason La Canfora a fan of my work?!

    [​IMG]
     
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  9. TopDawg Legend

    I agree 100%...Jamies Winston should be concerned too. Playing through shoulder pain is good way to play yourself right out of the league....

    Both Paul Brown and Bill Walsh claimed one of the greatest QB talents to ever play was a guy named Greg Cook. Played 12 games for Paul Brown's expansion Cincinnati Bengals in 1969....Here's a good NFL films about Cook. Pretty sad story;
    http://www.nfl.com/videos/cincinnati-bengals/0ap3000000493964/Greatness-cut-short-for-Greg-Cook
     
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  10. IrishDawg42 Legend Manager Browns Buckeyes Fighting Irish

    They have tried two other QBs in this offense and they both failed as well...so I would lean more towards Hue. But that's just me...
     
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  11. TopDawg Legend

    I guess I was thinking they might be able to win one, in spite of Hue, if they would start Kessler...
     
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  12. IrishDawg42 Legend Manager Browns Buckeyes Fighting Irish

    You could be right...I have to believe Kessler would at least cause less turnovers, but Kizer was been better in the last game producing 1 TD and no turnovers...I just don't think this roster is capable of producing enough points to win..It scares me about the 0-16, something I REALLY REALLY want to avoid!
     
  13. SAS M.V.P. Rams Chargers

    Hue's offensive system is most-closely related to Mike Martz's offense from the late 90's. Let that sink in... his offensive identity is almost old enough to legally drink. He's completely over his head as all defensive coordinators know how to counter it - and it takes three Hall of Fame players to execute.

    Awful gameplan? Check.

    But wait... it gets worse! His in-game decisions and play-calling is actually more unforgivable than his stubborn insistence on running an archaic offense. Starting the third-youngest QB, eschewing veterans Josh McCown and Brock Osweiler and incumbent Cody Kessler, he has chosen to run the football 19.25 times per game with his running backs (last in the NFL). The NFL average is 26.2. The Philadelphia Eagles and Carson Wentz run 26.6 times per game with running backs.

    Yes, Kizer is the worst Browns QB to suit up for this team since the re-boot (statistically, ever). But even a great QB is going to struggle in Hue Jackson's offense.
     
  14. I admit when wrong no doubt
     
  15. SAS M.V.P. Rams Chargers

    Browns Mock Draft - BYE Week Edition

    1.1 Baker Mayfield, QB Oklahoma


    Why not? The Browns have avoided a QB early in the draft since taking Tim Couch in 1999. While not the conventional pick, Mayfield is without a doubt the best QB in his class and has two defining characteristics that will go further than any stat or win he's posted: leadership and play-making ability. Mayfield is the top-rated analytic QB for two successive seasons (and was third his sophomore season). He's the first true freshman walk-on to start for a FBS school in NCAA history. For as many times as he's been told he can't or he isn't, he's proven the doubters and critics wrong. So we can knock his height (listed at 6'1") or his system but no QB has been better over the past three seasons.

    Moreover, he fills the head coach's biggest requirement: accuracy. His time at Norman would set the third-best NCAA mark for accuracy in a career (700 qualified passes and the top mark now is 70.39 - Mayfield's mark at Oklahoma is 70.0). He's got an NFL arm with the ability to beat defenses at every level of the field. He can use his legs to make plays outside of the pocket, even better than Johnny Manziel. If he were 6'3", he'd already be locked to go No. 1 overall.

    The biggest need on the roster since 2002 and the reason for so much struggle. The unconventional QB could be the answer they've needed all along. As his coaches put it:

    1.7 (f/Houston): Calvin Ridley, WR Alabama

    Assuming that Saquon Barkley is off the board in the Top 3 picks, the top wide receiver trumps the second-best running back prospect (Guice). He's not putting up the same gaudy numbers as some of the other potential first rounder prospects, but Ridley is the top guy in the class. He plays in a run-first offense with a running quarterback, so we'll forgive his production. He is a true route runner who's operated in a professional offense for three seasons. While he doesn't come into the NFL as polished as Amari Cooper, he made the most of his opportunities, posting a college-best 1.77 yards per route run, has the seventh-best drop rate in the class, and is one of the best deep receivers.

    Ridley can take a short pass the distance with his athleticism (three screens for TDs) as easily as he can take the top off a defense (11 catches of 40+ yards). Regardless of Josh Gordon's status on the team, Ridley can be a pure No. 1 receiver for a team and fills the second-biggest need on the roster.

    1.25 (f/Buffalo via Kansas City): Tavarus McFadden, CB Florida State

    Browns trade #39 overall (f/Houston, 510 points) and #65 overall (265 points) for #25 overall (720 points) and Buffalo's own fourth (approx. 30 points).

    Like their moves in 2017, the Browns are willing to be aggressive to grab players who can impact Year 3 immediately. McFadden is a guy who can take over for Jamar Taylor who's looked out of place in Gregg Williams' defense. With the need to play much more man coverage, Taylor has been exposed and a guy like McFadden may be the best press-cover corner in the class. Will need to work on tackling but has the size (6'2" 200 pounds) and physicality to take on receivers.

    McFadden could help give Williams more confidence in his defense and allow him to play Peppers in a more traditional safety roll.

    2.33: Maruice Hurst, DT Michigan

    If the Browns keep this pick - and they could trade to either a suitor on draft day for a haul or pre-draft for a Bridge(water) Quarterback - you have to think value. It's super-tough to predict how the draft will shake out this far in advance, but let's target the defensive front. Hurst is my guy now for a dip on draft day. Two years ago, the Browns took Emmanuel Ogbah who's quietly been a great addition and Hurst can be that guy this season. Danny Shelton will be entering a make-or-break year and has run hot and cold for his time in Cleveland. The knock against him coming out in college was he really turned it on his senior season (to improve his stock) and the same could happen when he's gunning for that payday.

    Hurst is tops among interior lineman from a pass-rush productivity standpoint but also holds up very well against the run. We don't have a great mix in our lineup today (Ogunjobi is elite against the run, Shelton is decent against it, Brantley is unproven). Hurst could give Williams a poor man's Aaron Donald in the middle to help put pressure on offenses where the Browns rate 24th in the NFL in sacks but more importantly, rate 31st in opposing QB rating allowed.

    2.39 (f/Houston): TRADED

    2.64 (f/Philadelphia): Stacy Thomas, LB Louisville

    While Joe Schobert has made strides - and offers a ton of upside over Tank Carder - the defense is still being routinely gashed in the mid-level of the field by opposing offenses - specifically tight ends. Thomas is a very good coverage linebacker who also has the size (6'1" 240 pounds) to match up with most of the NFL's tight ends. He grades well in both pass break-ups and forcing incompletions while grading out well against the run, too. Not a flashy pick but one that could potentially solidify the middle of the defense or at least add a capable body to the rotation.

    3.65: TRADED

    4.108: James Butler, RB Iowa

    Could Butler be this season's Kareem Hunt? I'm not has high on Butler as I was on Hunt last year, but there are some definitely parallels in their games. Neither are going to post eye-popping Combine numbers, but had the uncanny ability to make defenders miss (Butler tied for fourth in the nation on missed tackles). Another parallel is ball security - Butler only has three fumbles in 665 career carries. Iowa has shelved him after he was a workhorse at Nevada, so he would enter the NFL with essentially a year of rest.

    The metrics clearly do not value the RB position which is yet another reason I don't expect them to burn a first round pick (especially No. 1 overall) on a running back.
     
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  16. SAS M.V.P. Rams Chargers

    I will say, the BYE week mock draft assumes status quo - Hue Jackson and the front office come back.

    Which brings up another question for the "Where Do We Go From Here" thread... what happens to the power structure in Cleveland? What would you do?
    1. Keep everything together for one more make-or-break season?

    2. Replace the head coach / coaching staff?

    3. Replace the front office?

    4. Re-structure the alignment?
    Even though it seems that Jimmy Haslam has been siding more with Hue Jackson and the coaches, most of the media reports are that the coaches feel like they're the one's who are gone at the end of the season. To me, that move - if changes are coming - makes more sense. We've gone through the GM-only change before where it almost always leads to a lame duck season for the coaching staff until full changes are made.

    Changing the front office is potentially a tougher task because replacing it with the right people is a tougher task when you're hand-cuffing them to a coaching staff that (if everything stays steady) has gone 1-31 in two seasons. A coach staff they didn't hire.

    I honestly believe the only changes coming related to item #4 - a re-structure of power or reporting. It's been reported that someone named J.W. Johnson has assumed a lot of the day-to-day power/activities in Berea. This is Jimmy Haslam's son-in-law who likely has no business being involved in football. However, this could be part of a general restructure where now the head coach and front office report into him who reports to Jimmy? It feels like re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titantic.

    Personally, I would bring in either a President of Operations (Peyton Manning) and give them the reigns to the organization - everyone reports into them and he alone reports to the owners. If I get to fire someone, it's Hue Jackson and I'm giving the F/O their pick of successor.
     
  17. McFadden very down yr....will fall out of 1st round
     
  18. Campbell Administrator Manager Commissioner

    I have him scoring higher than Wadley at this point and that is probably going to stick because of how his opening score is laid out. He might be a slighter better combine workout than what is expected.
     
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  19. Campbell Administrator Manager Commissioner

    I have him at 7th for his position right now. I don't have any opening scores for him that are below some set markers, and he actually hits above the expected averages across the board, but it's really flat and trends towards no significant leaps in the second round of numbers.
     
  20. SAS M.V.P. Rams Chargers

    1. Barkley, PSU
    2. Guice, LSU
    3. Chubb, UGA
    4. Freeman, ORE
    5. Jones III, USC
    6. Love, STAN
    7. Butler, IOWA

    Close?
     

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