Abuse? Is that the word you really wanted? This is the bed "we" as a society made. Now "we" lie in it. Too bad #metoo took so fucking long to get here... but who's fault is that?
I agree with this. Everyone has an opinion. Most of the opinions that I have read on media and message boards have been posted by men. The brotherhood of silence. It's tough to put yourself into someone else's shoes, especially another gender's shoes, because you'll never really get it. How could you? Unless you have been groped, molested, raped and treated like garbage all of your life, how could you relate? You are an outsider, looking through an outsider's eyes. This is about power and only about power. When the word goes out that someone has been accused of sexual inappropriateness it becomes everyone's problem. If people choose to use a pedestal at the Grammys or Oscars or any other circus, to offer their thoughts on the crisis (because that's what it is, when everyone down from your president is being outed for sexual inappropriateness) that's probably one of the best places to actually get heard from. Just because the issue of forced sexual contact or sex has been a part of the acting scene for years does not, in any shape or form, make it okay or dismissable. Question people's agenda all the way but don't neglect to question the perpetrator's agenda as well. I don't think anyone has even a remote idea of how far spread this is. Even 40 years ago women had a hell of a time making a rape or sexual interference report. I know, because I am one of them. It's the people who are openly condoning this issue by showing suspicion about every woman's right to report sexual assault, no matter what time line is in place who are, in fact, aligning themselves with abusers and predators. I think it would be interesting to hear from someone who works in a police department and who could probably give everyone here a pretty clear understanding of how widespread and malevolent this issue is. This isn't just about politicians, actors, or journalists. This is about your wives, your girlfriends, your sisters and your daughters. I have a lot of friends and not one of them has been spared. I'm going to roughly estimate that I am friends with about 400 women. We have talked this over many times and not just because #MeToo prompted those discussions. In my group of friends, associates and clients every single one of these women have been touched, molested, abused and raped. Every single one. And there is nothing special about these women (except that they are incredibly special in their own ways) because this is true all over the globe. The utter and complete violation and desolation of being touched or raped lasts an entire lifetime. The fear these actions beget is massive. Being told to keep it secret or 'Mommy and Daddy will die" or "I'll just tell everyone you wanted it" breaks women. You're completely isolated after an experience like that. You're afraid of not being believed and you're afraid of what the repercussions could be. Honestly you should all be of one mind here. The more people who understand this in its entirety and condemn it for what it is, means that more people will understand how absolutely non-negotiable this issue is. #It'snotokay.
Babyfan, everyone has probably been touched inappropriately once or twice in their life, including men, but you won't hear men complain about being touched. Now if someone raped them and sodomized them then I could see reporting it. I don't believe it is necessary to report every inappropriate touch. I have had gay men grab my cock twice in my life inappropriately and I know what you mean by feeling violated. I felt like I had done something inappropriate when I did nothing wrong. I definitely didn't invite them to or act in any way to make them feel I was into that kind of stuff. I made sure they knew I didn't go that way and never saw those people again. I was pretty drunk both times but not drunk enough to be taken advantage of. But my point is the only way I would bring it up to go after them for money. It just wouldn't make sense to say anything about it after more than 20 years.
^^ like I said on why would Anthony Rapp bring up the Spacey story out of no where and not on Oscar night or a night to tarnish his reputation. He brought it up out of no where.
That is very possible. And it pertains to women executives in the workplace also who get accused of sexual harassment, especially by lesbian women and/or gay men. My daughter is a mid level manager at the Federal Reserve Bank in LA and she has had to navigate a couple of false accusations brought to IR by two gay men who alleged that she sexually discriminated against them because they were gay. What she ran into was the absolute FEAR on the part of the bank to have complaints be adjudicated. The cases that she had to make in order to cover her butt against false allegations were very detailed and carefully managed. On one of them, the bank ended up caving to the complainer in the end, which she was really pissed about. I had one sexual discrimination case during my many years in the work place but it really is a no win situation for an innocent party and even if you do a great job of dotting your i's and crossing your t's, the word of mouth is a bitch in the court of public and corporate opinion. I won my case and the woman ended up getting fired after it was found out that she basically extorted a co-worker in a previous position who she black-mailed with pictures taken at a Christmas Party to turn down a job that she herself wanted and got. I also am not disputing that flirting and groping has occurred in the workplace and mostly women are the targets. However, I will also say that a lot of flirting is mutual between men and women and it is my experience that a helluva lot of women initiate the flirting and sometimes go on the offensive in order to use their looks and sexuality to get ahead in the workplace. It was pretty much a "game" and to deny that most of it was consensual is naive at best. Where is got really bad was when there were marriages and children involved. But like I have said before, I am glad that I do not have to worry anymore about this bull shit. Having a good high paying job and managing a large group of people is hard enough in itself and having to concentrate on taking extra care to make sure that all of your personal actions are professional and above board is a big complication of the job.
I agree. One thing that I must also add is that no one should condone inappropriate physical conduct of any kind. But I also have to say that to deny that in a lot of cases, the so-called victims do initiate a lot of the behavior and then cry wolf afterwards is bullshit. I also have to say that any person who makes a big deal about someone telling an "obscene" joke is a loser. If one doesn't like that kind of stuff, then he or she should pointedly tell the person not to do it anymore please. That, I think, should take care of 90+ % of the cases. But I have no respect for any person who sits there lamely and listens to it and then turns the "teller" in for being obscene.
False accusers don't get enough punishment. It's almost win-win. Brian Banks a USC LB lost his prime years and then like 10 years later he was released because they found out she was lying. He missed out on millions and his life's dream while she didn't get a punishment that fit her crime. I can understand #metoo but the platform is used in the wrong way as well and puts innocent men in live-ruining situations. It is a small amount but it shouldn't be any. And you can't even publicly voice against it properly because then you are labelled sexist or a supporter of rapists. Just like all the #blacklivesmatter BS. It was and is still abused. It has it's place but argue about it being used wrongly and you are labelled racist. P.S. going to the black or privileged thing, a rich white kid at Stanford was guilty, I think admitted so and got only 6 months. Banks was pissed. And no he wasn't being a hypocrite. He defends people that are believed to be falsely accused and helped some people already. The NFL threw him a bone and hired him to the NFL Department of Operations. I don't know if they still have him employed.
Sorry, but I do not believe that out of 400 women, all of them have been sexually abused. And I have talked to a lot of women in my lifetime. What that basically says is that women are always innocent and are targets of male predators. Now if you are talking about a man who gives a women a friendly hug, then I must be a sexual predator. Of course, I also hug men as a expression of affection, so I must be homosexual also. I also hug my grown children and quite a few of my friends kids also. If a woman is so freeking insecure that she feels that men are after her because of a friendly hug then they should examine their own selves and their own sexuality and biases.
And you would be wrong Al. All 400. You don't believe this because it is out of your realm of experience. It doesn't matter if you believe it or not because it is a fact. You have no idea how widespread this issue is. But how would you?
I can appreciate that you have personal experience with this issue gidion, which means you have a deeper understanding of it. I don't personally understand why someone would bring charges up 20 years after an traumatizing experience but I would never deny them that right. I'm addressing all of you in this thread ... please don't bury the true horror of this crisis behind assumptions of doubt over the honesty of the victims. That is just like forcing them to go through the experience over and over again.
Yes, I was uncomfortable at first with kisses on both cheeks overseas as a child. It was a new a different culture. Looking back, I enjoyed the intimacy of others with openness. I wish that could be normal. America's culture on normal interaction has been inferior for so long that it has now become a lawyer-fest. I do not condone or approve of sexual predators, but I wish we could hug another without a lawsuit.
So you have 400 women friends. First of all, I don't believe that you personally know 400 women that you consider as friends who would somehow relate to you their examples of sexual abuse in their lifetimes. And the odds have to be extremely long that all of these 400 women were abused is nonsense. Like maybe thousands to one odds. As for how would I know? Because I am a man and have a lot of male and female friends. I also have lived in businesses who employ men and women. I also have seen women who have "used" their sexuality to get ahead. I have seen women pretty much use their race and sexuality to get ahead in my years. What I am saying, baby, is that men and women are co-equals and have used sex and race to get ahead, big time. If women want to be considered equal or even better than men, then they should at least acknowledge that many women like to use their sexuality the same way that men do. This notion that all women are "victims" of male oppression is a huge crock of doo-doo.
Why not? There needs to be due process. Too often it's done in the court of public opinion or circumstantial evidence. Yes sexual abuse isn't easy to prove but that's what makes some women cry rape to get revenge or money. It happens to people. Why should an innocent person pay for the greater good of getting real offenders in jail easier? It's a tough issue but a real one the court systems fail at getting right.
Make no mistake, BF, I'm not trying to bury the true horror. My point was, and still is, if it was truely horrific, then why did these women wait 20 to 30 years to make their claim? Why did they allow the perpitrator to continue on his horrific path and abuse God only knows how many more women over those next 20 to 30 years? IMHO, it's the "Squeeky Wheel Syndrome" combined with anominity that is driving the #MeToo movement.
This is now a "CRISIS"? That is nonsense. It may be many things, but it is certainly not a "Crisis". Sexual abuse cases have to considered as a single entity, not some all encompassing indictment of one sex or the other. This is the same kind of nonsense that takes place in indictments of white people oppressing minorities on a massive level. Its bullshit. There are good people in the world and there are bad people in the world. Some are white, some are black, some are brown. Some are Christian. Some are Buddist. Some are Muslim. Some are Hindu. Some are atheists. Yet all we hear from in the media and liberals in general are that white people are racists and now, according to what you are saying, that all of your female friends by the hundreds have been sexual abused by men. Ridiculous.
Yeah. And this is because, I think, this stupid description of what "manliness" is all about. Men shouldn't cry? Men shouldn't hug? Men shouldn't even kiss another man? And by a kiss, I am talking about an expression of affection toward someone who is a close friend or relative and nothing of sexual expression.
So, baby, in your mind. When a woman comes out 20-25 years later and gives out allegations that someone groped her or otherwise abused her, should she be believed but has no "proof" of anything, should she be believed? And when these kind of allegations occur just before an election, do you think that she COULD be making it up entirely or embellishing her "facts" to a large extent? Also, do you think that a man just can read the signs wrong that a woman is attracted to him and wants to have sex and tries to make out with her? I agree that no means no and that sexual abuse is to be condemned but the notion that pretty much all men are sexual abusers as you pretty much allege is total BULLSHIT.
Yes it is. But also we have a system of justice in which there is a presumption of innocence before a court of law in which the prosecution must prove a finding of guilty. But right now, with the power of the media, this is being changed right before our own eyes. A Classic example to me is the bullshit BLACK LIES MATTER movement which was used by racist elements in the civil rights movement and its complicit media cockroaches to condemn policemen of being racists and all black people as its victims. This, I think is where this Metoo movement may be headed. Perhaps the so-called "feminists" of the world really want a society where women have all of the say-so in sexual relationships and the "rules" in the workplace. A world in which men are just phallic toys to be manipulated as they see fit. Already a large portion of women would prefer to have sissies as their mates and that what used to be called virile masculine men are to be vilified. I think that is also the reason why a lot of women hate the military so much with their charges of soldiers being murderers and baby killers.
Probably because had he brought it up when it happened or shortly after...his hope for an acting career may have disappeared. Fear of not being believed...fear of retaliation, fear of a lot of stuff. Which is a common reason many men, women, and children didn't report stuff. Fear. A study of the psychology of victims of sexual assault will tell you that most victims fear coming forward.
