Its also not just the victims that suffer from psychological damage. Maybe I should say mental anguish rather than damage. By know everyone has read or seen the father going after Nasser in the court room. Its easy to say he is so angry because of what Nasser did but as a father I can say (guess) that part of his turmoil is from not protecting his daughters. Should he feel that way? Probably not because he did nothing wrong but there is always going to be a part of him that feels like he failed to do his job. I hope that he is attending counseling with his daughters or the guilt will eat him alive. I hope that #Metoo does continue to launch victims coming forward hopefully sooner rather than later. My hopes is that they come forward and investigation are done in a stronger better fashion in the hopes of preventing more victims. How many could have been spared if people had done their Jobs when first reports of Nasser surfaced? Is the movement perfect? No by all means it is not there are problems with it. One of them we have already touched on some and that is false reports which are far more damaging than even be measured. False reports lead to doubt, which causes skepticism which leads to the darkside (jk what can I say im a star wars nerd and even though this is a serious topic it does need some lightness added to it or the gravity of it crushes people). False reports can lead to actual reports against a predator being ignored. IMHO the #metoo movement despite some faults is a positive thing and I hope that victims continue to find their voice. I also have to hope that we society listen to those cries. I started the thread by saying that people who know and allow it to continue need to be punished as well. I know that proving who knew is a hard thing to do and I wish I had the answer as how we do that. I think an effort needs to be made though that by punishing abusers and those who let it happen that we move move closer to preventing more victims from being out there. I am not naive enough to think we can stamp it out completely. Sadly it is something that will always exist but I would hope by punishing enablers we could lower the number of victims which is always going to be a good thing.
Oh I didn't take it that he meant only children sorry if it read that way I was just pointing out the damage to adults is high as well. Yes by all means the betrayal of trust is a crushing and crippling thing.
I think it's an almost impossible scenario, trying to find out who knew what and to then punish them if they were aware of sexual transgressions taking place. How do you do that in a court of law? How many courts would be tied up then with all of these accusations being made and bandied about? I said a few days ago that this is a crisis and I don't think we have even seen the tip of the iceberg yet.
No worries Jean. I just wanted to make sure that we were clear about what was actually said. This is a huge and timely topic. It's interesting to hear all kinds of different opinions but the crisis itself, in my opinion that's a lot bigger than anyone realizes.
This thread has gotten weird but I will go to one point here. Any real scientist that uses proper scientific method will tell you that even if they don't believe in God there is nor will ever likely be any way to scientifically prove that God does not exist and not just because it goes beyond science. It can theoretically be proven someday but it can never be disproved. There is no evidence anywhere. What pisses me off are atheists that think they can go and tell people their crap like it matters to them that everyone thinks like them. Heck I'd understand religion vs religion but atheists got nobody they are backing. Unless it affects the issue, like say separating from politics, it shouldn't even be brought up. Now I know the counter argument to that is different religious groups say belief should matter into everything in life but in the modern world outside of certain areas you don't see as much stubbornness to that and people can do stuff without bringing up or alienating religion. Don't worry Al when you're both dead you can say I told you so, you can both look around you and be like... oh well this is different... or he can, well tell you nothing. Pretty much arguing is pointless.
So religious people can argue because they have a god but atheists can’t because they don’t? Is that what I just read? Congratulations....that’s the dumbest thing I’ll read today. And I just spent 20 minutes on Twitter so it’s quite an accomplishment.
I skimmed through it and aplogise if it was going back on track. Nope not at all. You misread it. I just said there is no reason to argue it between each other. Religious people shouldn't try to prove it to people that say they don't believe or want to try. I was saying the argument is dumb and doesn't need to happen in the first place. I then added that religion vs religion makes sense from a religious level (as long as they don't get any more holy wars). The main point is though if you want to go to science, God can't be disproven. It hasn't been proven scientifically and could never be, but it is absurd to say science says God can't and doesn't exist, even with no evidence. Does that mean atheism is dumb? Nope. Atheists believe what they want and have their valid points and lack of proves for strong theories. I'm just saying, technically it isn't fact. Nobody has scientific facts either way.
I’m gonna make one last post on this subject and let it go and if anyone wants to debate religion I know there is already a thread for it or we can create a new one instead of continuing here. If your religion can be brought up in a discussion....then so can my atheism. Your religion is important to you....atheism is extremely important to me. It’s part of who I am. Religion shouldn’t play a role in political discussion because religion shouldn’t be the basis for political opinion. If there is a god he or she isn’t playing an active role in this world, that anyone can tell, so when it comes to the worlds governance we can’t let religion decide things. The founding fathers of this country didn’t let god dictate the bill of rights or the constitution despite what one poster wants to believe. That particular poster is about as good at recalling history as he is using the quote function of this messsage forum. I only bring up my atheism when either religion is mentioned or when someone else mentions it first. And the fact I don’t believe in a god doesn’t mean I don’t get a voice. Bottom line.
In your opinion, which is the most effective way to bring the right kind of attention to the #MeToo issue? Is it through the mouths of victims, through extensive reporting in the media or the voices of people who have the spotlight and can garner more attention to it then, the average Joe (no offense Joe LOL)?
It’s actually a very good argument and we should be having it more often rather than running from it. I apologize if I took your meaning wrong. No one needs to disprove god just as we don’t need to disprove Santa Claus, Zeus, Mars, Medusa, Poisedon, the Easter Bunny, Aslan, Sauron, or any other man made deity or powerful being. I accept, as fact, that no god exist. And I can make some awfully strong arguments to back my claim. Religious folks will accept, as fact, that god exists. But there’s no logical argument to be made...just faith. That’s the biggest difference.
Part of the problem with discussing religion is that it is such a hot topic for so many which makes it difficult for cooler heads to prevail.
I agree. That is what I was saying. I think I know the sentence in ,y original post that got to you. You read it unilaterally from the religious side. Relgion shouldn't need to brought up at all in politics, especially when religion doesn't govern them. Now if it were a world of all believers and no one disbelieved to be persecuted for it then that' different, but it isn't that type of world.
I suppose my next question would be why are these not already in place? How many secondary schools have you taught at or visited/child attended that had a program in place to teach young adults what is right and what is wrong?
It's actually pretty much the exact same thing. No side can come up with any facts on either side. What you believe as strong arguments, whether they are or aren't is never fact. It just backs up a theory. It is in no doubt a strong theory but one thing hidden or yet unknown could always break up a strong theory. All I'm saying is it isn't fact. You can accept it, believe it is true, believe it to be fact (in the same way religion believes it to be fact) but you should just also accept that it isn't a definite fact BUT also accept and know it isn't a hole that should matter. It's just well, the scientific method. Same thing the other way. If both sides understood that and also understood where religion or lack of religion should be brought up or where a religious or anti-religious point need not to be countered, the world would be a much happier and better place and I'm sure any gods wouldn't be upset.
I didn't bring religion up anywhere in the thread. I brought up morality. As for you going to someone and asking for something to be done, I guess that is pointed at me, eh? Once again, I am the defined bad guy in all of this crap. I will talk about what I want to talk about and if you don't like my opinion relative to Hollywood and the lack of morals that many of these people have that is just too bad. It was baby and BWW who told me that I was not a true Christian and said that people who are religious people are hypocrites. It wasn't me that brought up a belief in God as being stupid and I couldn't prove the existence of God so therefore I was somehow okay to be mocked. Nowhere did I attack either baby or BWW and their own belief systems. For them to feign some high and mighty outrage at me for defending myself against their ridicule is really funny. BWW is a bleeping low life who openly admits being a message board bully. He's attacked me ever since I joined this board and has called me a coward many many times. Baby, as the "moderator" of this board is clearly biased and one sided. She admires BWW for some crazy reason. Moderators should be even handed. She is not. She throws insults around also, and cries foul when she gets stuff throw back at her. I love this outrage by her whenever she is mentioned as being unfair or wrong, like she is somehow being personally attacked. She is not being attacked period. Now I get mocked by some as playing a victim. That is crap. I just want people to be fair is all and many people on this board want to have it both ways. They want to dish out every vile thing that they want toward Trump and Republicans and call their supporters, racists, homophobes, cowards, liars, child molesters etc. This goes on BIG TIME on this board by LIberals and the Trump haters and no one gets chastised for it at all. But yet, I call bullshit to the tripe doles out by people who attack my God belief, and I get accused of being a hypocrite, not a Christian, personally attacking the only woman of the board, and being warned by you that you don't like my "talking about religion" and if it continues, you will report me for it. All I can say is go right ahead. I hope that includes reporting BWW and his mocking religion also. He, after, all, is talking about religion all of the time by mocking it all of the time. Report his ass to whoever this magic arbiter of this board is. Otherwise, mind your own business.
Oh for the love of pete I asked everyone to stay on target not just you so get your panties out of your butt and quit thinking its all about you. This thread is about next steps for #metoo not religion not morality. Im asking that people stay adults and keep it on that discussion if you want to discuss morality and or religion and the effects of it on #metoo or #metoo on religion and or morality you are free to start your own topic about them im sure loads of people will flock to it and have a nice polite discussion with you about it.
