So what happens to the good QB that only gets an average of 1.5 seconds or less to throw? Because that is where I believe the Browns O-line is at right now.
Alright I'm putting my best evaluating forward here. 2 rounds on me for those who are left here. RB Guards 1. Todd Gurley JR. Georgia 1. David Yankey Sr. Stanford 2. Lache Seastrunk Jr. Baylor 2. Cyril Richardson Sr. Baylor 3. T.J. Yeldon So. Alabama 3. Gabe Jackson Sr. Mississippi St. 4. De'Anthony Thomas Jr. Oregon 4. Spencer Long Sr. Nebraska 5. Ka'deem Carey Jr. Arizona Tackles Center 1. Jake Mathews Sr. Texas A&M ( son of Bruce Mathews) 1. Gabe Iklard Sr. Oklahoma 2. Taylor Lewan Sr. Michigan 2. Bryan Stork Sr. Florida St. 3. Cyrus Kouandijo Jr. Alabama 4. Jack Newhort Sr. Ohio St. First and foremost with what hopefully is a top 2 pick I want Bridgewater, Boyd or Hundley. Then with that 2nd pick I want a Guard. Yankey or Jackson are maulers. Long and Richardson can get the job done. Put 1 on 1 side Greco on the other and roll with it. They just gave Greco an extension so we are stuck with him. He can play the right side of the line. At running back I would love if Gurley fell to the 2nd rd. but he probably wont. So then I'm looking at Yeldon, Thomas and Seastrunk. I've watched some of Seastrunk, Gurley , Thomas and Yeldon but Gurley is who I want. Those with WR are our biggest problems besides QB. But if we can walk out in 2 rds with Bridgewater/Hundley or Boyd then Yankey/Jackson and then Gurley/Thomas/Seastrunk I will be very happy with my 1st 2 rds. If we don't resign Mack (which may happen) then there is Iklard from Oklahoma and Stork from Florida St. Both maulers. I would hate to lose Mack. He is a good center. But if winning is important to him he is gone. Next in line for chit's and giggles I put tackles on here. It is apparent that H&H didn't know what they were doing. Drafting Swhartz. He is getting owned out there. The best Tackle in the draft is Jake Mathews from Texas A&M. Jake is the son of HOFer Bruce Mathews and the nephew of Clay's. BALLER!!!!!! But he is a left tackle at A&M. So is Lewan from Michigan but both are the real deal and will be taken early in the draft. After those 2 you have Newhort from Ohio St. and Kouandijo from Alabama. Both can play both sides of the line. Something we need. My feelings on all this is BLOW IT UP! Demolish it all. Thomas hasn't helped us win 1 playoff game. what good does that do? Out with the old and in with the new. Specially on offense. New guards, new QB, new WR's, new tackle and new RB. Hopefully not a new center. This time start with the freaking offensive line. Because this fan base is fed up with the Browns. Some feel put up or move again. I'm with them to the end. This is my hometown team. we have to go down fighting.
As with most things Browns, I'll take the "stance less travelled" on this one. With regards to Trent, there's only one thing to say: About darn time. He's a grade-a bust and half of the garbage we were fed in 2012 by an inept and totally lackluster front office. The failure to secure an elite talent like RG3 and then worse, to be burdened with Richardson and Weeden set us up for failure. With this move -- and the likely last starting of Weeden -- we're setting the stage to finally improve the team. Acquiring the draft pick is a step in the right direction towards locking down that which we've lacked for 14 seasons -- a franchise QB.
SAS, my only question to you is, how's RG3 working out for Washington this season? Not to mention, the draft picks they don't have to try and build around him?
IMO this is granting themselves a pass on the season. More of the "hang in there, we have a plan crap". I feel like I did when Holgrem came in, and watched for half a season, then didn't make a move on Mangini, til the next year. Like well you can't blame me for the half season, and you can't blame me for season two, cause I still didn't have "my guy" on the sidelines. Enough already. Win now! That is the only way to approach each week. Isn't that what you ask the players to do?
Put the gun down, back away from the ledge......Ive had some time to think about THE TRADE, and this article best explains why this trade makes sense for the Browns...Enjoy and GO BROWNS Through two games in 2013, the Cleveland Browns have scored a total of 16 points. And as Browns general manager Michael Lombardi was watching the team on Sunday -- when the Browns scored six points against a Balt...imore defense that had been thrashed the week before -- in a game in which Trent Richardson was stuffed short over and over because the Ravens had little respect for the Browns' passing game, he might have been thinking, "If only I could redo the 2012 draft." After all, when the Browns drafted Trent Richardson at No. 3 overall, and Brandon Weeden at No. 22, Lombardi wasn't in charge. Well, now he is. And after trading Richardson to the Indianapolis Colts for a 2014 first-round pick, he does get to redo the draft, with two first-round picks of his own this May. It's a great move for the Browns, who just got a ton of value for a player they couldn't maximize anyway. And now they'll have two Round 1 selections in a draft that should be loaded with QB talent, which is the No. 1 need in Cleveland. A few thoughts on why I like the trade: 1. Richardson's value is diminished in Cleveland Many Cleveland fans are probably mad based on the loss of talent in the short term. But they're simply seeing star potential and not seeing relative value. It's not a shot at him, but Richardson simply doesn't have that much value to a team that can't consistently move the ball through the air. If you're mad the Browns just gave up what some might call a "franchise back," just ask yourself this: How good is the offense with him? How much is Richardson really worth to this Browns team? Is he capable of making this a decent offense on his own or adding more wins? Is he appreciably better than a player like Washington Redskins RB Alfred Morris, who was drafted 170 spots later? Just check the Vegas lines. A game with or without Richardson might be worth a half point. If you're still using old maxims like, "You need the run to set up the pass!" you need to re-educate yourself on where the NFL is at. A franchise running back is practically an oxymoron. The Browns can't get great value out of Richardson because they don't have an even adequate passing game, and defenses know it. I was there on Sunday in Baltimore, and in Richardson I saw just another good running back with no chance against a stacked box of defenders. It's why before this trade he was on his way to yet another season in which he could average fewer than 4 yards per carry. (He's at 3.4 yards per carry through two games. He was at 3.6 last year.) 2. This draft could offer big help for the Browns The Browns have a pretty good defense. They even have a couple of good pieces on the offensive line, a brilliant left tackle among them. But this is a league in which the rules are literally set to help passing offenses, and the Browns don't have a franchise quarterback ? and they're dreadfully inconsistent at wide receiver. The addition of another first-round pick gives them the ability to take a QB in the first round of a 2014 draft that should be loaded with talent at quarterback. You could have the likes of Teddy Bridgewater, Brett Hundley, Marcus Mariota, Tajh Boyd, Johnny Manziel and a number of other really interesting prospects. With the added first-round pick, the Browns could even take the guy they believe is a franchise QB in Round 1 and add a depth flier later on. After what you're seeing to start 2013, did you really want to go into 2014 with Weeden and Richardson at this same level and assume things would be better? 3. The Browns got remarkable draft value for a running back It seems almost absurd that any team could get a first-round pick in return for a running back in today's NFL. When undrafted free agents like Arian Foster can lead the league in rushing, or rookies like Morris can put up huge totals...And remember, Richardson already played a full season with an injury. He also came into the 2012 draft with some minor injury concerns. I'm surprised a team could get a first-rounder for any running back, much less one with any recent injury issues. And remember, the value of a first-round pick has never been higher. You're essentially drafting assumed starters, and doing so knowing they'll be on the roster at a low price for years to come. I understand what Indy is doing. The Colts are looking to establish a power run game to complement and protect a great quarterback. They want to become more multiple. But they're doing that because they have that great quarterback. A healthy Richardson has far more value to them than he does to the Browns. I understand what the Colts did. But I love what the Browns did. Richardson is a good player, but he's not the difference between winning and losing in Cleveland -- this year or next. He could be out of Cleveland by the time he truly has value. Cleveland now has 10 total picks in the 2014 draft... The 2014 draft could change the entire direction of the franchise, and at worst will significantly upgrade the talent on this roster...
Sammy Watkins I think will be there. But bump that I want a guard. If Mack leaves then we will have 2 spots on the line to fill. Greco can play guard right side. But if Mack bolts we will need a Center too. Let's face it the Browns could frig this draft too. But I want a guard! Yankey from Stanford. Richardson from Baylor. those 2 are all -Americans. Jackson from Miss. St. Long from Nebraska. Jackson and Long are 2nd team all- Americans. Why bring in a new QB and get his brains beat in? Why bring in a new RB with no holes to run through? Start new upfront! The only 1st rd. picks that pan out here are lineman. Thomas and Mack.They come as advertised. There is 4 really good guards right there. Take your QB #1 and Guard #2 in the 1st rd. Then look WR or RB in the 2nd. Then RB or WR in the 3rd. Hopefully they can sign a guard before the draft. FS and WR too. But this team needs line help foremost. Sign a guard then you can look at RB & WR with your 1st 2nd pick. This line is garbage. Guards and Shwartz are overrated. That's 3/5ths of your line. I would do what I can to trade Rubin and Little. 3rd, 4th round it doesn't matter. Rubin may have some value but not Little. Stock pile those picks. I don't want the Browns to win no more than 2 games. I want a shot at Bridgewater. The Browns already gave up on 2013. I don't want to trade those 2 picks for 1 pick. Suck up the joint and make sure you get a top 3 pick. I want a top round pick in every round I can. Whether the Browns know what to do with those picks I don't know. They haven't in the last 14 years. But if they don't sign a guard they better draft one EARLY! This team is not in position to draft a sexy pick early yet on offense. This draft is loaded in TALENT! Plenty of RB's, Plenty of WR's. We need a QB and a guard. Guard either draft or sign. Hopefully sign. Then with that 2nd 1st rd. pick we could look at RB or WR. Got to start looking at guards. Everything starts up front. That's how I was taught football.
In the world of sports it is always "What have you done for me lately"? Well for the Browns and their fans, it has been a while for sure. For those of us that can remember the days of NFL Championships for the Browns, we are now old and just wish for a spark of a championship. I first started as a Rams fan when they were in Cleveland and fell in love with the horned helmets. Yes we had some great teams over the years but in the Super Bowl era of 47 years, just once did a win come in 1999. My baseball team of the LA Dodgers had huge success in the 60s, won again in 81 and then 1988 and that was it. My kid is 27 years old, a huge Dodgers fan and was 1 and a half the last time they won it. He doesn't remember. I understand the wait for next year gig, it sucks and pisses me off, but you love YOUR TEAM FOREVER or not, but most fans can't turn the switch off no matter what happens year to year. I can't, won't and will live or die that way. Generations have rooted for the Cubs but it has been since 1908 for them. OK the Indians have been absent too since 1948 but teams like the Padres 34 years or Rangers 52 years have never won. The NBA Nuggets 46 years no Championship, Nets 36, Suns 45, I am sure a strain is on their fans. Now the Detroit Lions did have 4 NFL Championships as did the Browns but theirs was before the Browns 4, so there is another franchise that has used the fans. So if anyone wants to dump on the Browns forever or a day, I can always understand but just remember that there are worse than you, and fans that have waited a lifetime and still wear the jersey, because they are a FAN FOREVER and a DAY. I hope all that want to leave, are just feeling the sadness of the moment because on pages like this, we are all the same, a faceless friend with hopes our team will make us feel better this Sunday and take the real pressures of life away for 3 hours.
ID and TD thanks for the rational thinking. Came across an article today that really took the sting out of the trade. It was on draftbrowns.com. This guy looked at nearly all TR's runs last year and concluded that some if his poor ave. was a result of TR being either impatient with his blocking, have poor vision and not seeing the holes or the game just being to fast for him as a rookie. He broke down 5 examples frame by frame. It was striking how poor the decisions were in those examples. It cost Td's against Indy and Dallas. The guy wasn't bashing him it was just his assessment of what TR had to do to improve. The article was posted June 18th. Made me think he was way over drafted and now we get a do over. Those don't come around very often.
The Morning Kickoff ? Biting the hand: Mike Holmgren, who hasn?t been heard from much since retiring in Seattle, has found his fastball. The former club president ripped the Browns for the Trent Richardson trade, accused the team of throwing in the towel on the 2013 season and questioned coach Rob Chudzinski?s integrity for going along with it. You?ve got to believe that Holmgren?s settlement with the Browns, believed to be in the $40 million range for 2 ? years ?work,? must have been paid by former owner Randy Lerner without any gag-order restrictions. Otherwise, it?s highly unlikely Holmgren would have teed off on his successors in Cleveland, for he would forfeit his outlandish severance. Holmgren, making his regular appearance on Sports Radio 950 KJR in Seattle with host Dave ?Softy? Mahler, sounded eager to voice his opinion on the total repudiation by new CEO Joe Banner of the team foundation Holmgren laid. Holmgren traded three mid- and late-round draft picks in 2012 to move up one spot to No. 3 to select Richardson. He made this call ? not GM Tom Heckert. Holmgren also made the call to pick quarterback Brandon Weeden with the 22nd pick of the first round. Weeden?s future in Cleveland also is in doubt. ?When I was told about (the trade), my daughter phoned me, I thought she was kidding around. I didn?t believe it. I really didn?t,? Holmgren said. ?Then I went on my computer and saw it. I had a lot of emotions. Because I really liked the young man. I really think he?s an outstanding football player. He was something that we needed last year and he had a really fine first year, his rookie year, a really good year. Played through pain, injury. So I was startled by that. ?And then I wanted to make sense of it. I?m thinking, ?What in the world?? It appears after seeing the press conference that -- they?re not coming right out and saying it -- they?re kind of preparing for next year, preparing for next year?s draft. Because the coach said we want to be competitive. Who?s gonna be the running back? They don?t even know who?s gonna be the running back this week. How do you make the team better by trading your best player? He?s their best offensive player. He?s a valuable, valuable guy.? Rubbing it in: Holmgren is no dummy. He knew he was tweaking the noses of owner Jimmy Haslam and Banner. They brought down the big curtain on the Big Show. ?To me, they?re putting all their eggs in for next season,? Holmgren said. ?They started off 0-2, couldn?t score any points. I think it was a little bit of a knee-jerk reaction. There?s a little bit of a ?What?s going on? What?s happening?? I don?t know this for sure, but I can sense it. Then to do this as an answer, to get a No. 1 pick, which people are gonna talk about, but Indianapolis I think is gonna have a pretty good year, so that pick is gonna be around 23-24.? Holmgren then jabbed at Banner?s obvious effort to stockpile picks for a package to move up and select the No. 1-rated quarterback in the 2014 draft. ?To package something ? we couldn?t package our four (in the first round) and our second for (Robert) Griffin last year, and we had more ammunition,? Holmgren said. ?So I don?t know, Dave. And I struggle with it.? Holmgren knows his hand-picked coach, Pat Shurmur, has been tirelessly derided, so he decided to attack Chudzinski?s integrity. ?Philosophically, if I am the coach and someone came in and did that, said we?re going to do this, then I?d say, ?OK fire me,? or I?m gonna quit. We?re both going in to the owner and talk about this and we?ll see who?s still standing. ?Clearly the coach is OK with this, because they sat at the news conference together, so they?re OK with it. I personally would not be OK with it. It was my best offensive player. A young guy. Not an eight-year guy. ?I don?t know the coach, but I know people who know him say he?s a great coach, good guy. It?s his first head coaching job. But, boy oh boy, there would be a conversation. I?d shake hands and walk. I would. Because if I disagreed with it vehemently, and I couldn?t buy in ? that?s what I would do. You have to be true to yourself in this business.? Holmgren questioned whether the players have bought in to Banner?s vision. ?That was asked of them at the press conference and they said, ?We have great chemistry, great this, great that ?,? but at the same time you can?t tell me some of those players aren?t asking the same exact questions. It?s just too wild. This sort of thing doesn?t happen, and it happened.? Hot tub talk: Holmgren retold the story he first told in Cleveland of how he offered Colts GM Ryan Grigson the Browns? entire load of 11 draft picks in 2012 to move up for the No. 1 pick to take Stanford Andrew Luck. In Cleveland, he said he made the offer in a hot tub at the NFL owners meetings at the Breakers resort in Palm Beach, FL. ?He probably didn?t take me seriously,? Holmgren said. ?I was ready to pull the trigger. They did the right thing. But he said if for some reason, some craziness would have happened, they would have taken Trent Richardson. Now they get both of them.? Holmgren never cared much for Browns fans as team president. I?m sure his read from Seattle was that it was a highly unpopular trade by Banner and he felt he was riling them up with his comments. But my suspicion is that he did Banner more good than harm. If Holmgren disapproves of the trade, fans probably figure, then it must have been a good move
[Holmgren never cared much for Browns fans as team president. I?m sure his read from Seattle was that it was a highly unpopular trade by Banner and he felt he was riling them up with his comments. But my suspicion is that he did Banner more good than harm. If Holmgren disapproves of the trade, fans probably figure, then it must have been a good move[quote Maybe this trade wasnt such a bad thing .its not like T Rich was the next Jim Brown . good back yes ..great back ??? we have yet to see that from him .to get a first rd pick back for him is rare .lets hope the Colts go nowhere this year . i think dogside summed it up best when he said we went from a 5 win team to a 4 win team this year and we get more ammo for next years draft which is supposed to be heavy . the biggest problem i have with it was they didnt tell Richardson in person . he heard it on the radio . show some class Banner . i am sure that didnt set well with the lockeroom . To the Walrus ..STFU you did nothing the whole time your fat ass was here !
windows fun... So I guess I have to ask the question here fellas... Is it official? Are the Browns going to tank 2013 in hopes of building quickly off of the 2014 draft? *SCRATCH*
Not intentionally. They may, in fact, go 0-16 but they could have done that anyway the way they were playing. Anybody who makes a post claiming the Browns are going to intentionally tank this season is an idiot. Oh, wait . . . http://mudncleats.com/forumlist/viewtopic.php?pid=75573#p75573
lol, easy Lyman, I'm not putting heels to the carcass. But I do question going with Hoyer over Campbell, do you consider this the type of move that says they are trying to win games this season or that they are looking for reasons to drop losses in the bucket?
Tim wrote: Assuming there was a huge disparity between the #2 and 3# guy on the depth chart, I can see where one would think Hoyer leapfrogged Campbell. I'm not privy to coaches evaluations but I don't believe that there was that much difference between the two. Campbell better at some things - Hoyer better at others. How much film is there out there on Campbell? How much on Hoyer? EVERYONE knows what Campbell is. A wannabee starter who couldn't make it after FIVE tries. Frankly, I was surprised the Browns signed him. About the only disturbing thing to me about Hoyer's career so far is that he chit his knickers when given the only true chance at being a starter with the Cardinals.
Fair enough, the Richardson moved just surprised me on a lot of levels. One of which being I'm not even sure they got fair market value out of him if the Colts were to make it as a wildcard team. I had the Browns with 7 or 8 wins this season, its just difficult to see that as a reasonable expectation now. Considering what they did with the coaching staff it was unclear as to whether they intended to win now or put a core group in place for the future. The trading of Richardson after week 2 says to me that they are looking to the future with no concern for the outcome this season.
