Another post I really liked... Could not agree more. Part of the issue with the Browns being repeatedly bad season after season is the constant change at the top trickling down to roster changes where certain guys no longer fit, be it personality, scheme, talent, etc. To get this team where it needs to be, we need to build through the draft, make smart decisions in free agency, and have an overall team goal of minimizing turmoil or turnover - if we believe in "the plan". To date, the Haslams have not shown the ability to do this and that's got to be of largest concern right now. 1-15 does seem to sting less than 0-16, but our odds are not good. And honestly, while it sucks the absolutely life out of you as a fan, it may be exactly what this team needs. More and more rookies need field time. The Browns need to start signing players off of other teams' practice squads and give them a look-see. Focus on 2017 because this truly has been (and continues to be) a lost season. It would be swell of the franchise to acknowledge that and maybe give back to the fans a bit in some other way. We'll get 'em next year.
Long time, no see SAS. 100% spot on IMO. That's extremely valid too. All in all, I lay this all at the feet of the "blowing it up" scenario. Everything and everyone is new from the FO to the lowest of Asst. Coaches with very few quality veterans left over. For once it is apparent that this is a true rebuild starting at the foundation of the roster. Prior to this, it was a purge of players who weren't optimum for the new coaching system and failure to draft quality. Don't know much more to say. Nobody wants to hear "Patience" or "It's gonna take some time" but that's about all there is to say.
The thing is, EVERYONE understood what this year was going to be, well before it began. Some of us still wished for the best, but we knew deep down. So, with all this understanding of what was expected out of this seasons...plus all the injuries that have made it even more unbearable...I just don't know why these guys continue to do the same ol' shtick constantly. I'm with you Lyman...I post in here a lot less than I used to. I post more on the main boards than I do my own team board, simply because I can't have a normal conversation about how this team can/will get back to where they want/need to be. \ It all seems as if the expectations were playoffs and how this team has disappointed thus far. Those expectations were NEVER thought of, even by myself. I didn't expect win less, admittedly, but I don't think anyone realistically thought this team was going to win very many games based on the transparency that has occurred this past off season. Every one in Berea stated that they were starting from scratch and building this roster the way it should have been done years ago. As hard as it is to watch on Sundays, I STILL AGREE that it needed to be done. I don't think anyone inside the organization regrets starting over. This team is on such a honest raw level that everything can be seen without a microscope on film. There are positives within the whole of the season... there are also some overwhelming, eye opening gaps that can easily be seen. Positives: 1) The team has fought hard though all the adversity they have endured this season. Every game but a couple were hard fought to the end. 2) The team has some emerging talent. a) Terrelle Pryor has emerged as a true NFL WR, imperative they get him re-signed b) As much as everyone wants to bitch about the O-Line, they are in the middle of the pack as far as units go in the NFL. You can roll your eyes all you want, but the truth is, there aren't many superstar linemen in the league. Besides a couple of teams, most are NOT built like Dallas. It is more common to have a line perform like the Browns, or in most cases, worse. Another addition and this line could become very good in a short amount of time. c) Isaiah Crowell, despite having a HORRIBLE month of November is still averaging 4.1 ypc for the year. The holes haven't been there since Bitonio was hurt and they have been playing musical chairs in the middle of the line. However, with consistency on the line...he is the real deal that can get this team the hard yards. d) There were a couple of guys that wanted to bounce Danny Shelton after his rookie season...I think the EXACT word was "BUST". Now, he is playing at a very high level and is becoming what I thought he would when drafted. e) Just as Shelton was "struggling" as a rookie, there are some others that have flashed signs, but are not ready to be the leaders of the team just yet. In year two, I expect a leap to be made similar to Shelton and this defense will be ready to become a much better unit with some pieces in the secondary. Carl Nassib has a very high motor, Emmanuel Ogbah has flashed as has Briean Boddy-Calhoun. Nate Orchard was poised to make strides prior to his injury that shortened his season. d) There are some VERY young pieces to this team, ready to make professional strides...and the fact we have Multiple high draft picks over, not one, but the next TWO drafts gives me hope for the future of this roster. Now, the negatives...I won't leave the majority out. I know it isn't all bubblegum and roses... 1) Injuries cannot continue to derail a professional team. They need to get the depth necessary to carry on when multiple players go down. 2) THEY NEED TO RE-SIGN THEIR OWN! a) Terrelle Pryor not only has proven his worth, he is a public figure good for the community that wants to be here for the rebuild. That is a commodity not seen very often. b) They made a great move to acquire Jamie Collins, he has shown his worth as well, they have PLENTY of money over the next few seasons. Sign him to a front loaded extension and let's move on to acquiring pieces in the draft to complement what already exists. 3) Defensively, someone needs to take the blame for the lack of tackling skills on this team. Missed tackles are one of those stats that this team ranks in the lower third of the league...That is inexcusable. Needs to be addressed and fixed immediately. 4) The secondary needs a LOT of help, as well as compliments to Terrelle Pryor. I think Corey Coleman can emerge as a slot receiver, but having another receiver like Pryor would help this team take the next step..I personally believe this is much more important than offensive linemen and pass rushers, which is what everyone will be clamoring for in this draft. I honestly can't wait to get started on the draft evaluations, because with two picks, I believe the Browns could get a first rounder in 2018 by trading out of #1 overall and be better suited for this draft to take high caliber players that will improve the team more, and get another asset in the 2018 draft. 5) QB play is not on an acceptable level. I like Cody Kessler, he is far better than I ever imagined, but at the end of the day, he simply doesn't have the tools needed to play in our division as a 16 game starter. Love the kid as a backup. I think he could hold down the fort in case of injury with a few more tools in the box...Must find a QB in the next two drafts in order to take a huge leap, honestly, I'm not sure there is one in this draft though. I certainly don't see one that I personally would take at #1 overall. I think this teams needs from highest to lowest are as follows: #1 QB #2 FS #3 WR #4 CB #5 C #6 OLB #7 RT #8 DE #9 depth everywhere else.
If I were going to jump on actual names, like Els did, I would champion for a trade down from #1 overall...This is what I propose doing with our draft as it stands today. #1 overall, trade for something like Chicago #4 overall, 2017 2nd round #35 overall, 2018 first round draft pick #4 overall, trade down again...Arizona #10 overall, 3rd round #76 overall, 2018 2nd round draft pick Draft goes a little something like this: #1 Chicago Bears select: QB DeShone Kizer ND #2 San Francisco 49ers select: My bold prediction QB Davis Webb Cal #3 Jacksonville Jaguars select: Myles Garrett DE Texas A&M #4 Arizona Cardinals select: QB Mitch Trubisky UNC #5 New York Jets select: Leonard Fournette RB LSU #6 Cincinnati Bengals select: Jabrill Peppers S/LB UM #7 Carolina Panthers select: Jonathan Allen DE/DT Alabama #8 Tennessee Titans select: Quincy Wilson CB Florida #9 Green Bay Packers select: Marshon Lattimore CB tOSU #10 Cleveland Browns select: Malik Hooker FS tOSU The Eagles currently have a pick somewhere between 11 and 21, depending on the outcome of Monday Night Football. If they win it will be between 15 and 21 as they are all 6-5, if they lose somewhere between 11 and 13 as all of those spots will be 5-6. (Tennessee sits at 6-6 and in the 14th spot). So, Theoretically speaking, I will hope for the worst in this scenario as I am forever wanting the Browns to be in a better situation...I will assume the Eagles lose more than they win, since that has been the recent trend...and end up around #13. I also predict that Deshaun Watson is available to us at #33 to start the second day/round of the draft?.AND the Browns trade down again? In THAT case...Here is the first three rounds of the draft: #1 overall, trade with Chicago, get #4, #35 and 2018 first round draft pick #4 overall, trade with Arizona, get #10, #76 and 2018 second round draft pick #10(from Arizona) Malik Hooker FS tOSU #13(from Philadelphia) Jamal Adams FS/SS LSU #33 overall, trade with NY Jets, receive #37 overall and 2018 second round draft pick #35(from Chicago) Julie?n Davenport OT Bucknell #37(from NY Jets) Ethan Pocic C/G LSU #45(from Tennessee) Corey Davis WR WMU #65 Cordrea Tankersley CB Clemson #76(from Arizona) Bradley Chubb DE/OLB NC State #1 QB #2 FS x2 1st round #3 WR 2nd round #4 CB 2nd round #5 C 3rd round #6 OLB 3rd round #7 RT 2nd round #8 DE That?s just 3 rounds?.Then you are set up with the Bears and your own first round in 2018, possibly another top 1-3 pick with a rookie QB coming in for the Bears? 2018 #1 overall (from Chicago) Best QB available, added to a solid young team
I feel like this belong in another thread... And while it's well past time to talk about the 2017 NFL Draft, I'm not going to say who needs to be taken and where... only that the Browns need to stay put at #1 unless they get a king's ransom (I wouldn't even answer the phone without three first round picks being discussed). Stay atop the draft and pick the best player available (currently looks like Myles Garrett of Texas A&M) or take a QB you're in love with that isn't necessarily the best player available, but could be the best fit for your franchise (e.g., Jared Goff to Los Angeles and Carson Wentz to Philly).
SAS nice to see you back. I am thinking more along the lines you post, rather than trade down, accumulate picks. The analytic guys, I suspect are inclined the other way. What bothers me about that is I feel like it's fear of actually making a choice, which can be evaluated, and criticized. A trade out for picks can't be evaluated in the "immediate", and kicks the can down the road. Picks are an unknown value, players taken either turn out well or not. I don't know who they should pick at #1, and I'm not averse to taking a deal to trade out for a seriously ridiculous offer, but our FO should actually have a "real" plan to take "their guy" at #1, and be happy to have gotten him. If someone comes along with a boatload of picks, OK, but I don't want that as our "plan". God knows we are in need across many positions, so taking a #1 isn't a problem, it's an opportunity, and IMO we should go and get the best guy out there, who can make a difference tomorrow. That should be the plan. I don't want to be the smartest guy in the room by accumulating picks, I want players. I also agree with Irish about whats on the roster. There are guys who will be important to the team next year. Some of the "flash" guys will become real contributers next year, and we will be better. Period.
I don't think it was mentioned earlier, but the same "they'll be better next year" idea, applies to the coaching staff. In Spades. Mistakes have been made, some may need to be addressed by coaching changes, but the HC, must be left to apply the lessons he has learned this season and grow with his team, or we can all go home now. Guys who have marched through hell with one another will form bonds that lead to unity any growth if they can stay together, and embrace one another as foxhole mates. Naturally some will have to go, but we are no longer talking about wholesale change, like this year, if Slam truly means to build continuity. Sign and secure those players who clearly add value, and let's not over react to the dismal record 2016 will be. Take the time to recognize the wrongs, and decide what action is needed to "right" them, which may include some targeted housecleaning, but not starting over. Like Irish, I beleive our line will be greatly improved by getting Bitonio back, and some of the guys we have ridiculed will benefit from their time on the field this year. As awful as the line play has been, it is magnified by poor QB play, and a lack of defense to get more opportunities. Do they need to get better? Yes! Will they? Also yes, just as the coaches will with another year of experience behind them. I'm and old dawg, but I've been a fan since, well let's not go there, anyway the biggest problem, has been the one constant: change. I'm ready to try a multi year core FO / Coaching staff, to see if it's a better way.
Here is my problem SAS, I view Hooker as one of the best players in this entire draft. The next problem is safeties aren't viewed as high priority players like QBs, OL, pass rushers...So, I think he will be available later...now, in no uncertain terms, I would be happy with a single trade down to #4 and take Hooker there so I don't lose him as well...But it would be very hard to argue taking a S #1 overall. I have a lot of film to get to this off season and I will re-evaluate Garrett after I watch multiple games. So far, I have only watched one game from about 25 different players in the upcoming draft, and I don't even know if all of those players will commit to the draft, which is why I'm not watching more until I know for sure...but from what I have seen, I simply don't see what all the talking heads have on Garrett. I think he is a really good player, don't get me wrong, but a once a decade team changer??? I just don't see it.. As for the QBs, same thing, I need to see more games. I've watched Deshone Kizer all year, I've watched a few of Deshaun Watson's games and one each of Davis Webb and Mitch Trubisky..again, I don't see someone that jumps out at me and says, "I can change your franchise". I had a higher feeling about Carson Wentz last year than any of these guys in this year's draft...again though, I've only touched the surface on game film. I didn't think real highly of Wentz until I got deep into his film. If there isn't a clear #1 overall guy, then I want more draft picks in the future. It's that simple. I don't see ANY player, including Hooker, that I absolutely have to have over 3 other players.
Welllll.... There goes that strategy. No sooner did I post that and I just got a bleacher report "Malik Hooker '100 percent sure' he'll be back next year" If you are putting my feet to the fire and telling me I have to take a player #1 overall, I am taking the guy I think could make the biggest impact on the team as a whole, that would be Deshone Kizer.
Irish not taking a shot but I think that shows how off u were w Hooker...if he was top 10 he wuld have been gone...also whoever takes Fournette over Cook is NUTS!!!
Maybe stopper...I'm obviously not a professional, however, watch film on the kid...he's the real deal. Honestly, as far as RBs are concerned, I don't have an honest evaluation. I was using talking head websites to give me insight as to who other teams might be taking in the top ten. I don't even know who needs what at this point from any other team.
Oh man, Irish... it's almost time to debate endlessly over mock drafts. Can you feel the excitement! *DANCE* If you are putting my feet to the fire and telling me I have to take a player #1 overall, I'm not taking a QB this year. Myles Garret Jonathan Allen Leonard Fournette In that order, actually.
He very well culd b talented but 2 already announce he's coming back tells me he wasn't projected very high...also not talking just 2 u but how many times has the trade down worked?
In 2014, we traded down with Buffalo and picked up Justin Gilbert and a future first rounder that we turned into Cameron Erving. Does that count?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gh_t2MuSB2Y......this guy is the top RB hands down....Marshall Faulk 2.0
Stopper, you are just wrong on this, and you ARE taking a shot at Irish. Mr Hooker's announcement doesn't really tell us anything. First of all, Hooker said "As of right now, I'm 100% sure I'll be coming back for another year at Ohio State"....Sounds good for OSU fans, but hold your horses. Hooker hasn't even got the paperwork back on the evaluation of where he would be expected to go in the draft. WHEN it comes back that he's a first rounder all day, I'm certain he does reserve the right to change his mind, which is what I fully expect him to do, and I won't blame him. If that dude isn't a first round candidate at safety, than nobody ever has been...
