Just to clarify something: Belicheck's 1995 Browns were picked by many to go to the Super Bowl. And then Modell made his announcement. IMHO, I would argue he was successful in Cleveland but had the rug pulled out from underneath him mid-stream.
KilKennyDan- Just want to say that it's always nice to have a discussion with both or multiple sides being discussed. Don't be a stranger. The door's always open........ *DRINK*
First, and this is not a gratuitous comment, I come to the Browns board to actually learn things. Most of you are very astute, and it helps that I'd probably enjoy having beers with most of you. There are not any other hardcore Bills fans on L4S, but I prefer L4S over any other chat site for two reasons: 1) there's exceptional chat on the hockey boards, and 2) the vast majority of people here are not interested in impressing others with their ability to put down others' opinions. I lay no claim to having insight into the Browns past or future. I do have some experience with business. It is the business of football that, IMO, has been the reason for their perpetual suckitude. When they get that right, then proper team building can begin. If Hue can be a great coach, (and I think he can), then I think it's in the team's best interest to give him time to prove it. Regardless of team circumstances, the parallels with BB hold. He was a young aspiring HC with promise and the Browns did not allow him to fulfill that in Cleveland. BTW, I do not decry a coaching mistake. First, all HC's (all people) make them. Second, it's not mistakes that matter over time; it's how one responds and learns from them. Third, show me a coach who does not make mistakes and I'll point to an individual afraid of making mistakes. The NFL is a bold man's league.
I think that's the rub right there. Since the re-inception of the team in 1999, it's been a train wreck. The "win now" idea and the fans clamoring for instant gratification (and a new owner who may embody this as well) has led to this coaching carousel that leads to a hire and fire 2-year cycle for the team. And after a coaching change or two, then the front office is turned over as well. Every 4-5 years has been a new (for the most part) front office and coaches meaning a completely new system and lack of roster talent for said new system. It has just been a perpetual cycle with this team and of course they can't expect instant success with a new style of play every few years and the "wrong" players on the roster. The last 3 coaches (Shurmur, Pettine, and Chudzinski) have never had the chance. Although, I would argue that Shurmur and Pettine were not top notch coaching choices and Chud was rather a guy "promoted from within" as he had several stints with the Browns as an Asst. Coach. Can't say Chud was good, either, but again no time was given to him. Hue Jackson is the only coach the Browns have hired who was at the top of everyone's list to be hired as a head coach. This wasn't another selection from whatever dregs of the league remained after other teams got their coaches first. At this point, it's imperative that the owner lets his new coaches and front office do what they can do and give them sufficient time to do it. This can't be a 2-years and done scenario. These guys are going to need 3-4 years to have the time to do it right.......if they can.........
And every coach above dealt w circumstances but Hue may turn out 2 win the least amount of games of any of them in a season....I think we need 2 remember who was the OC of Cincy during their playoff appearances? Those offenses did nothing and culdnt win a game when they were favs a few times...I'm not putting all the blame on Hue but if he was losing 31-28 or 35-30 then I culd see where the blame should go...Hue reminds me of a poor loser at times...gets that sad look on his face, shakes his head numerous times in a game, stops calling plays when the game is out of reach etc...his body language as the top dog reflects quit and sorrow instead of being the leader and showing emotion w getting pumped up when the team does something good or high fiving a player after a big play....he seems defeated and his team takes on that personality
And I'd argue this roster has been cut down much further than any of those previous rosters. And as a result the FO has earned quite a few more extra FA compensation picks that none of the others have. So when Hue is the head coach, everything that happens on offense or defense is his fault? And yet when he was the OC in Cincy, it was Hue's fault and not Marvin Lewis' fault? It's sentences like these that say exactly where you are laying all the blame. I'll give you most of this as to the defeated coach with the wind out of his sails. A poor loser though? I see no evidence of him being a poor loser. Where are the Jerry Jones-like temper tantrums or the Jim Mora "we suck" speech? As for being frustrated and disappointed and seemingly not knowing how to fix this, that comes from a coach who wants to win and doesn't have the players to do it. Would he look this way if he didn't really want or care about the wins and losses? I think he's fully aware that this is going to take awhile and it's going to be a tough row to hoe. He probably thought they were better than this, but apparently not to his satisfaction.
Hue is now the HC and OC here so he controls a lot more than he did in Cincy....u didnt put up the whole quote about the blame...he was the OC and the offense put up 10 pts in 2014 and 16 pts in 2015...not a great ringing endorsement in prime time
And you failed to address why you lay no blame on Marvin Lewis since he was the head coach and yet our head coach now gets all our blame.
For the record, I put the primetime failures in Cincy squarely on Andy Daulton. Dude doesn't play well when the world is watching. He pretty much stunk it up again last night on MNF in the big apple. He's tough to figure. Obviously Andy doesn't respond well when the pressure gets ratcheted up. IMO You can't put that on the coaches.... Hue Jackson hates losing. He hates watching his team fail to execute. He has passion for the game and sometimes emotions take over passionate people. I think the body language could be a little better at times considering his position, but I understand it completely. He's only human.....If I was in his shoes, they would probably need a straight jacket on hand for my outbursts...lol!
Sashi Brown on 'State of the Browns" Fred Greetham Yesterday at 3:03 PM Sashi Brown met with the media and addressed the current state of the Browns BEREA, Ohio--Browns executive vice president Sashi Brown met with the media on Monday and covered a variety of topics. He addressed the current state of the Browns and his vision going forward. He also said he and the front office own the winless record.? "We're not going to shy away from the disappointment in our start from a wins and losses perspective," Brown said. "But there are some real positives signs of what we are seeing in the building. We are disappointed but we don't take that as being deterred by any stretch. I give a lot of credit to the coaches and players in our building who are working their tails off. "We are disappointed," he said. "We are not going to shy away from that in terms of record. We want to win. That's an obvious desire for our ownership, for our staff (and the entire organization) but we also know the process as well." Brown was asked what the plan was and he said the plan was three-fold. They want to "change the culture", "focus on developing a core nucleus of talent" and keep "continuity." Brown was asked if he would change the plan, given what has transpired so far in the 2016 season. "I don't want to come across as stubborn, as we always want want to learn from every decision that we have ," Brown said. "We always knew this was going to be a major challenge where we sat with our roster, our cap situation and where we were standing with our quarterback situation. We knew what we were undertaking. We always want to win but we are steadfast in our plan and ?feel we are on the right path." Brown was asked how he would convince Browns fans that the plan will work as the team is 0-10. ??I can appreciate the fans and yours, if it?s yours," he said. "It?s hard to look at this other than wins and losses. I can certainly appreciate that. I?m disappointed for our fans and the folks here working in the office. We don?t want to be here. But we also think we?re on the way to a much brighter future.? Brown was asked what he thinks would happen if the Browns were to finish 0-16 or 1-15. He did say that Hue Jackson's job as head coach was safe. ?We are not focused on 0-16," Brown said. "Hue is going to be here as our head coach. We talked about continuity being one of the corps premises of what we wanted accomplished going out in January. We know that we have a head coach that can be successful here and lead us to a lot of victories and a lot of winning.? Brown was asked if he was allowed a 'do over' if he would've still traded the No. 2 overall draft pick or stayed and drafted Carson Wentz or Ezekiel Elliott. "We really do like the players we were able to acquire and we like the positioning of ourselves going into 2017," Brown said. "That trade hasn't borne all of its fruit." Brown said "we tip our hat to Carson Wentz and what he has been able to do". He said despite missing out on Wentz and Dak Prescott, he's confident in the system the Browns have in place for all players, including the quarterback position. ?We like the systems and processes we have in place," he said. "Our process in terms of building this roster, whether it?s quarterback or any position, isn?t going to be one that?s born out in a single year. For us, I think, as we look at what we were able to accomplish in terms of the players we were able to add to the roster this year, we like it. "Quarterback is always a position we?re going to value and continue to take shots at whether or not we have an established guy. I would answer it that way.? Brown said as difficult as this season has been, he has been able to maintain his resolve. ?It is difficult in the sense that you want to win," Brown said. "You want to win now, and I wish we had a magic wand that we could wave and change our fate, but you can?t do that. The most important thing, I think, about my job is not to take those short cuts and to put this franchise on the path towards sustaining winning for a long period of time. That is really my job and my duty. More than anything else, I want that to happen as soon as possible, but I can?t get caught up in my personal emotions because when you do that, I think you end up making those short emotional decisions. "I empathize certainly with the fan base," he said. "We want to win for them as soon as possible. We will have a plan in place and we do have a plan in place that is going to lead to a lot of success over a long period of time. We look forward to those days where the Dawg Pound is full and we are playing on Monday night.?
Ah, yes......simply deflect. You're not answering the question. Here, I'll type it more slowly for you so you can understand it more easily...... You failed to address why you lay no blame on Marvin Lewis since he was the head coach and yet our head coach now gets all our blame?
Sashi makes it sound like the "plan" is working, and that expectations revolve around things other than wins. Not that they are OK or expected to go winless, but rather that they will not judge the team (fo included) on the W/L record. OK, that kinda sucks, but in the long run, I truly believe it is the right thing to focus on. The constant in/out of coaching and staff has but one destination, and even if the org doesn't get it 100% right in every area, the people in those positions will improve and learn how to work together better if the environment is set up to allow them to fail / make mistakes and know they are going to get to show they've learned from it and grow I agree with that 100%, but it hurt soooo much to finally see the team play Thursday night, and watch "ineptitude" throughout. Ouch. I thought Crow looked like he had no desire, Pryor coudn't get open, the line (including Thomas) was awful, and the D was completely embarassing. I wanted things changed yesterday, not next week or next month, or next year. Then I realized "I was the problem". Not me particularly, but the way I was thinking. It isn't up to me to pull the trigger on players and coaches. If Slam and Sashi, can hold their water, and let the people they chose, do their jobs, then they are doing the right thing, and ultimately, that approach will bear fruit. I won't always agree with the choices they make, but, the choice to make a move on every thing I dissagree with would only weaken the team and it's chances of ever succeeding. If that's where they are, it's a good sign. If Slam and co. have decided not to scratch every itch of disatisfaction, that is a giant step in the right direction. So players will make mistakes, and coaches will make decisions that seem, and maybe are foolish, but one can only hope they won't repeat them, and that they retain the right to be perfect, and keep trying. Part of me wants to see certain guys gone, and part of me wants to allow the team to go through the worst of it and stay to apply the lessons learned and grow. My hope is that this overriding goal of continuity, is the far more important goal right now, and even without winning, I want that to remain the goal. If we can do that, the wins will come, maybe next year, maybe longer, but they will come if we don't change horses every couple years. It still sucks to be a Browns fan, right now, but if they've really decided to "grow together" they have indeed dug the trenches for a foundation, and while I'll certainly piss and moan along the way, it is the way I believe they have to go. Yes, Stopper, I am being their lap dog. I always have been, so why would I stop now. I could choose to "like and cheer for another team", but my heart would never stop beating for a Browns season of success. Sue me.
ESPN's Josina Anderson reports Robert Griffin III (shoulder, I.R.) has been medically cleared to practice. Browns EVP Sashi Brown said earlier this week that RGIII is "on pace" to return this season, though it's unclear if he'll resume starting duties. Rookie Cody Kessler has been the starter since Week 3 and, all things considered, hasn't been that bad, even though he was benched last week and hasn't gotten a win. RGIII isn't the future in Cleveland, so there's no real reason to start him.
This was in reference bout Hue being the best of a group of previous coaches...I don't understand how hard it is 2 see what was written...I referenced him being the OC and his teams did nothing in the playoffs as far as scoring...now his team is 0-10 while the other coaches mentioned above were NEVER 0-10... I wasn't talking bout Marvin Lewis, Dalton, Burfict and his bone headed plays...I just didn't understand why Hue was so much better than Pettine, Chud etc and he's getting a pass cause the Browns went young...the other coaches dealt w some bad QBs as well or a young roster
Holy cow...I've been away for two days and the board explodes...GOOD reading everyone!! First off, let me start by stating the two playoff games for Hue in Cincy...I agree 100%, it was on Dalton, which is why I don't trust a 3rd round QB to lead us into our future...Try this year to find a passer at the top of the draft and groom him the way they have their 3rd rounder... I like what Kessler has done, just think what a guy with all the tools could be taught in a half a season. Those Bengals playoff games though with Jackson at the helm... 2014, they were without AJ Green, and Dalton shat his pants with a 18 of 35 day for a measly 155 yards...even though they were down 20-10 early in the 3rd quarter and you have to believe the Colts defense was playing some sort of prevent defense so they didn't give up an easy score...I don't know how Jackson can get on the field and do Dalton's job for him. 2015 Dalton wasn't even around due to getting injured week 13...so they had to go with A.J. Mcarron. Prior to Dalton getting hurt they were 10-2...with McCarron, they ended the season with a 2-2 mark and their points per game dropped almost 10 points...McCarron did actually manage to keep the game close against P-Burgh, but both years in the playoffs, Jackson had to do without one of their major offensive weapons (If of course you want to call Dalton a major weapon, which I would not)... Just look at Dalton though, without Jackson, he is now 3-5-1 and the Bengals are scoring about 8 points less per game WITH DALTON AND AJ GREEN HEALTHY, than they were with both of them and Hue Jackson at the helm this time last year. So, I don't know where the blame is coming for Hue Jackson and the playoff games honestly.
