Marvin Lewis took over a dumpster fire and went 8-8 in the first year ... Mike Zimmer took over a pile of hot garbage and went 7-9. Why is it that everybody else can turn things around rather quickly but the browns need 3-5 years?
You guys bitching about the 2 point try...you do realize they were down by 15? Right? What difference does it make whether you go for the 2 pointer on the first TD or the Second TD?
How many playoff games has Marvin Lewis won? Mike Zimmer took over a program that had been to the playoffs three times in the previous 6 years, despite being in the same division as the Packers...and won a playoff game without him. I wouldn't exactly call that hot garbage, but to each their own. Next, question....
And if he makes the two point conversion, they are down 7... Again, after ONE of the two scores you have to go for 2...what difference does it make which one it is? At least at that point, you know you will need to conserve extra time on the second drive because you need another score. If you kick after the first TD, you may not try as hard to conserve the extra time, knowing you can try for 2 to tie...THEN, when you miss, you have no shot at getting the ball back to kick a FG to win... It makes more sense to go for two on the first TD, than waiting.
Well being down by 9 means you need TWO scores not just one and a two PC . He should have kicked it after the first score putting the deficit at 8 . they recovered the onside kick . they scored and had no shot at tying the game . is this a test ?
Browns QB Cody Kessler earns respect for leading his team to the very end of a 28-26 defeat to Tennessee 6:58 PM ET Tony Grossi ESPN Cleveland Facebook Twitter Pinterest Email print comment Editor's note: Tony Grossi covers the Cleveland Browns for ESPN 850 WKNR. NASHVILLE, TN The day Cody Kessler quarterbacks his first NFL victory is getting closer. When it happens, it?s hard to imagine the rookie getting more love in the Browns? locker room than was showered on him on Sunday. The Browns fell to 0-6 by losing to the Tennessee Titans, 28-26, but Kessler earned everyone?s respect for willing his beaten team to two touchdown drives in the final 2:07. ?I wanted it so bad for these guys. I told [teammates] I?m giving everything I have,? Kessler said, short of breath, as usual, and more emotional than ever after losing his grandmother last week and learning of a health scare to his younger brother. Dick LeBeau?s defense sacked Kessler six times and pelted him to the ground on 11 other occasions. ?He kept getting up,? said left tackle Joe Thomas. Kessler almost outlasted the Titans, who were heaving at the end. But a controversial decision by coach Hue Jackson to go for two points at the 2:07 mark while down, 28-19, failed. That forced the Browns to need two more possessions, and the second one didn?t come. Ultimately, Kessler racked up 336 passing yards and almost that many welts on his backside before becoming another victim on LeBeau?s venerable record. Teams coached by the 79-year-old defensive mastermind are now 28-3 against rookie quarterbacks since 1995. It wasn?t so much the near-miss that earned Kessler his teammates? praise as much as his indefatigable fight and spirit. ?He did a phenomenal job. I just love the passion Cody has. I love playing for him. The kid has a heart of a lion,? said receiver Terrelle Pryor. ?He?s battling his butt off. A couple times he?s taking hits after scrambles and you think he won?t get up. But he keeps getting up,? said left tackle Joe Thomas. ?He?s a fighter,? said running back Duke Johnson. Kessler?s performance was all the more impressive considering LeBeau?s defense clamped down on Isaiah Crowell (16 yards on 9 attempts) and Duke Johnson (18 yards on 4 attempts). The Browns? defense did a similarly commendable job on No. 2 NFL rusher DeMarco Murray (65 yards on 21 attempts), but Titans quarterback Marcus Mariota more than made up for it. Mariota was 17 of 24 for 284 yards and tossed three touchdowns. The second-year quarterback also ran for 64 yards on 7 attempts, including a read-option run for 41 yards on the game?s first play. ?Murray was their go-to guy and we wanted to eliminate him, which we did,? said linebacker Chris Kirksey. ?We just have to eliminate some of the big plays and I think we?ll be fine.? Besides his long run, Mariota posted pass plays of 48 yards for a touchdown and 26 yards to Kendall Wright, 43 yards to Rishard Matthews, and 21 yards to tight end Delanie Walker. The defense could have used cornerback Joe Haden, but he was scratched because of his groin injury. Kessler was almost matching Mariota, however. He hooked up for 43 yards with tight end Gary Barnidge and 42 to receiver Ricardo Louis. Terrelle Pryor had 75 yards on 9 receptions, including both of Kessler?s touchdowns. Even when Mariota?s 15-yard TD throw to tight end Anthony Fasano gave Tennessee a 28-13 lead with 6:43 to go, the Browns thought they had a chance. ?It brought me back to 2014,? said Kirksey, who was a rookie when the Browns made up a 25-point deficit here against the Titans to win, 29-28. ?I never lost faith. I kept reminding guys, encouraging guys that we?d done it before.? After Kessler?s 5-yard TD throw to Pryor cut the Tennessee lead to 28-19 with 2:07 left, Jackson did not hesitate in calling for a 2-point try. They were going to need a 2-point conversion on one of their final two touchdowns, and Jackson said he preferred trying it on the first one. ?I am making these decisions with very good information from people I trust,? he said. ?That is what we decided to do. I know everything is going to get questioned. It?s on me. I know some people will say you shouldn?t. But we did, and we didn?t make it.? Kessler planned a fade to Pryor, but the Titans took it away by playing off Pryor. Kessler threw incomplete for Louis in the front of the end zone. Cody Parkey then executed an onside kick and Rashard Higgins recovered. Kessler moved them 62 yards in nine plays for the touchdown on a 1-yard Duke Johnson run with 27 seconds left. The next onside kick caromed off a Tennesee player and out of bounds to secure the Titans? victory. As a result, the Browns are 0-6 for the first time since their 1999 expansion year. ?I know everybody back home is not happy. We?re the same,? Pryor said. ?Nobody wants to be 0-6, but we?re doing the right things,? said Thomas. ?We have a lot of young guys. We just have to bring them along.? Kessler seems to be coming along faster than the others. That's a good thing.
You're kidding, right? Am I in the twilight zone? It doesn't matter in the least WHICH score you go for two...you STILL have to go for two... So it makes everyone less butt hurt when they miss on the last play of the game?
Wow! Irish, are you serious?? I can't believe that you don't understand this....You call us "butt hurt" but you are totally whiffing on this one bro...c'mon. Bluez has already said everything that needs to be said.....Geez. How do you not understand? If we would have kicked the extra point to draw within 8, then we would have had a chance at the end...Going for two and failing in the fashion that we did, just iced the game for Tennessee...BIG difference in the NFL between a 9 point lead and an 8 point lead, in the final minutes.... Hue is stupid for that move, and there is NO way to ever justify it....You don't go for two late in a game like that unless you have to....
U r definitely in the twilight zone irish....if they kick the XP the Browns are down 8 pts w a chance 2 tie the game w a TD and a 2 pt conversion...when they missed the 2 pt conversion earlier they had no chance to tie the game...the funny thing is Hue said he will do it every time in that scenario...if thats the case go 0-16 and fire him and start over w a HC who has a clue
How am I the ONLY PERSON in this thread that doesn't understand that a 2 point conversion had to be made...NO MATTER WHAT??? It doesn't make one bit of difference if it was on the first TD or the Second TD...Please someone explain to me how NOT GOING FOR TWO, would have AVOIDED GOING FOR TWO on the next TD....Because there isn't any universe that would have made that so... IF ANYTHING, going for it on the first TD is less pressure for your rookie QB, than a MUST MAKE 2 point conversion on the last play of the game to tie... I don't know how many different ways I can say this... Down by 15... You need 8+7 points to tie the game... 8+7=7+8=15 It doesn't make a difference WHICH touchdown the 2 point conversion is made...YOU STILL NEED 8 POINTS ON ONE OF THE TDs. I will say BECAUSE they missed it, they may have taken more of a chance on the second TD drive to conserve clock...which, had they converted the second on side kick would have left them time to move in position to try a FG... Had they simply kicked the extra point on the first TD, they would have been down 8 and most likely played more conservatively in order to get a higher percentage play for the TD and THEN if they missed the 2 point conversion, they would have still lost by 2...And most likely not had enough time on the clock to attempt the FG, even if they did get the second on sides kick... Everything is hypothetical of course, except for the fact THEY NEEDED a 2 point conversion, no matter what on one of the two scores, and it didn't make ANY difference which score they convert that 2 point conversion.... By missing the 2 pointer on the first TD, they didn't ice the game as they still had time on the clock after the second score to attempt another on side kick, which could have led to a game winning FG...
I'm sorry, I know I should just let this go due to semantics...BUT... That last part just flat out pisses me off... This is what you said BEFORE their opening weekend game... YOU think "they have a better chance of going 0-16"...This was based on their roster BEFORE injuries to: RGIII Josh McCown Joel Bitonio Patrick Murray (yes this injury cost them a win, not Hue Jackson) Joe Haden Cameron Erving Corey Coleman Carl Nassib Ibraheim Campbell Nate Orchard Tramon Williams Austin Reiter All you talk about is "bust" this or "bust" that...How about Corey Coleman, whom I called soft for his decisions at Baylor...How freaking long does it take to come back from a hurt hand? I can't stand Roetlisberger, but he tears his meniscus, has surgery and is expected to only miss one game... I know you loved this kid, is Coleman now a bust in your eyes? Now, back to the point of my consternation, Hue Jackson was given an opportunity to BUILD a team from the ground up. The front office has taken nearly every player on this roster that has proven anything in the league and moved them off the roster...replaced them with rookies or very young players and every week they get better. What Hue Jackson is doing with the circumstances he has been given is quite admirable if you actually watch the games and not just read the scores each week. You, of all people, who expected a 0-16 or 1-15 season, JUST BASED on the roster, now saying he should be FIRED??? The idiocy gets more and more unbearable... Every one that stated, give them time, give them 4 years...and now after 6 weeks to start calling for coaches heads... *WALL* I just need to avoid anything on these boards, my frustration gets the better of me and I really should ignore more than I already do...
#ImwithIrish I also do not see the difference in missing a 2pt conversion at the end of the game or missing it after the first score. Whether you miss it at the end of the game or before, you still need another field goal. If they miss the 2 at the end of the game does that make it more acceptable? Regardless of "moneyball" EVERY team in the league bases their decision making on probabilities and have run sheets that they reference for certain (most) situations. Hue said his sheet gave him favorable numbers in this situation and he went for it then.
Well what can you expect from the same coach that chose to kick the ball to start the OT in Miami? Hue's gameplans are solid as hell for the most part. I'm impressed with this teams' ability to hang in games. But in the pressure moments so far this season, our sideline has come with some highly questionable calls.... The successful onside kick and subsequent TD drive meant nothing yesterday because we were down by 9 points....The fail on the 2 point conversion, ended the game. There are no 9 point plays. Titans had it wrapped up. Our "success" after the failed conversion was ALL fluff....It was garbage...typical junk time TD, same as if we were losing 35-0, and then scored at the end. Meaningless score.....I don't know any other way to put it. If we had just kicked the extra point, we would have still had life. It would have made our final score meaningful, and given us a chance....Of course we still would have had to convert at the end. That's obvious. You don't go for 2 unless you have to in that situation. You have a chance to draw within 8 points with approx. 2 minutes left in the game. You don't try to get within 7 at the risk of leaving yourself down 9, and essentially ending all hope....Pretty common sense in the football world. And if our coach really said he would play it that way every time, then he is stupid.....
Yet, all hope WASN'T lost...they had time on the clock to kick another onside and possibly win...That is pretty improbable, but to think their chances of making a 2 point conversion are different, based on which TD they chose to go for it is also...well...I'll stop right there.
Sure Irish...We could have beat the Patriots too, if only we coulda got like 4 onside kicks followed by scores...smh...seriously. Why go for 2 points, knowing that if you miss, you will have to recover TWO onside kicks in the final moments and score TWO more times??? It's seriously flawed logic....If they kick the extra point, a chance exists that they could recover an onside kick and have a potentially game tying drive. That's it. End of story... You are talking about recovering multiple onside kicks and multiple scoring drives like it's no big deal. plenty of time.. lol! C'mon. Gimme a break....How often are onside kicks successful when the other team knows it's coming? How many times has an NFL team been successful at the end of a game on multiple onside kicks and drives to win? Realistically, we had no shot after the 2 pointer fail, and everybody knows that....The final was closer, and it worked out for the gamblers who bet Cleveland, but the last TD was a garbage score....It meant nothing. The game was over. If you don't think the entire complexion of that game yesterday changed as soon as we missed on that 2 pointer, then we should stop here....
No you're missing the point... You say the whole complexion changed...Well, they came back and scored another TD in under 90 seconds, so I don't know what complexion you are talking about. The whole point is...as far as adrenaline and stress are concerned, waiting until the last play of the game would be harder to convert than taking the chance earlier.. They were just talking about it on Browns Daily. I don't have time to research it right this second, but the odds go way up, when the 2 point conversion is attempted earlier, rather than later in the game. Missing the 2 pointer, you lose the game, no matter how you shake it. The fans wind may have come 90 game seconds later, but the ending is still the same...hell, it may have even been tougher to score that 2nd TD had the Browns simply kicked the extra point and we might have lost by 8 instead of 2...would that have made you feel better?
Complexion, dynamic, whatever you want to call it. The opponent is gonna play the game differently sitting on an 8 point lead in the final minutes, than they would with a 9 point lead....Hell, you answered it yourself. Of course it would have been harder to score that second TD if the lead was 8. lol!... They were up 9. They didn't care if we scored that second TD. That's the point you're missing.... To answer your question though....The gambler in me was glad that the Browns covered the number (7). But if I wasn't a gambler, there would have been no reason to watch for the garbage time points at the end....The Browns' fate was sealed when they went for the 2, and failed...That was disappointing, because everything that happened after was meaningless IMO....
