The Ben thing was a joke. Holy hell. p.s. The bonus debt paragraph is incredibly flawed. Nothing you described is accurate or within the rules.
0 and 4, and I'm liking this team.....? I can't help it. I like the youth, the fight, and the way they seem to ignore adversity. Congrats to coach Hugh, so far...... Facing the Dark Empire this weekend, is daunting, but somehow I don't think it's going to make a big impression on our guys. I get the feeling they are (as Hugh wants) focussed on what the Browns do, not on who's jersey is on the other side of the field. I don't know how Hugh and co. have done it, but with a new O line weekly coupled with a new QB every week but last week, they've been in a position to win. I keep thinking back to last season, when we lost our O line coach for being overly aggressive at home, and how we never addressed the issue with out O line. This can't be considered to be a better set of talent, so how much difference does coaching make???? Maybe I'm donning Orange colored glasses, but I am impressed at how they have shuffled the deck weekly, and remained competitive, and even scary at times. I little help from the football Gods, and we are 2and 2, maybe even 3 and 1, but no matter. They are fun to watch, excruciating too, but you never feel they are out of it. More importantly, you never feel like they think they're out of it. It's been nice to see that. So far. I still worry that if the losses continue, it will become harder and harder to sell the "we're moving in the right direction" story. I'm rooting for Hugh to be the guy who can make that stick, and not restart the merry go round. I will admit that I'm looking for the miracle win this week. That's just being a Browns fan IMO, but mostly I want to play the final 4 minutes with the game in the balance. Galaxy Quest line from Captain of the starship Tim Allen "never give up, never surrender". GO BROWNS
The Boston VS. Cleveland weekend is off to a great start. We could really spike the clam chowder with a couple more wins on Sunday.. GO BROWNS! beat the Pats! ROLL TRIBE!!! (get the brooms out in Fenway)
If they trade Ben, his signing bonus money ($6.2M in 2017, $6.2M in 2018 and $6.2M in 2018) of $18.6M would be accelerated to a lump sum payment.... How exactly is that flawed? And I know it was a bad joke... What you don't understand is the Browns aren't under pressure to trade Joe Thomas. If they don't receive adequate compensation, he will merely be a Brown for the next 3 years. A late 2nd likely doesn't replace a Joe Thomas.
C'mon Irish, let's not get carried away here....Beach thinks we HAVE to trade Joe Thomas to have any shot at being remotely competitive ever...smh ...for some reason, He still thinks I want to see them trade JT for some shitty draft pick... I don't get it....Sashi says it's not happening....but hey, the "rumors" are out there...lol!
Terry's Talkin' about how Browns handle team discipline -- and some Cody Kessler, etc:... http://fb.me/1xEzFawyZ
Because they paid it 18 months ago. They don't owe him another dime of that money. Ben's base salaries (which are the only relevant numbers to a conventional trade partner) are: 2017: 12M 2018: 12M 2019: 12M That's highway robbery for a Top 5 NFL quarterback which represents the exact opposite of the picture you tried to paint with your "analysis". It actually enhances what was already a robust trade value. What franchise in the NFL wouldn't jump at an opportunity to have a Top 5 QB for the next 3 years at 12M per season? As to what that value is? It's pointless to try and put a value on that. Guys like Ben or Tom or Drew or Aaron just don't get traded. They are simply too good and too valuable for their franchise to even consider it. There are no comparables because there have been no trades to compare and there probably never will be. Sam Bradford returned a 1st and a 4th and he's light years below the level of a guy like Ben. And worse he's on a 1yr 17M deal in '17. Based on what I've read today that probably doesn't mean much to you so trust me when I tell you it's an awful negotiation position for the Vikings front office to be in next March regardless of how he performs. And still they gave up a 1st and a 4th. If he had a contract similar to Ben's (3yrs, 36M) his value might be (2) 1sts. EDIT: Roethlisberger has 5M roster bonuses in 2018 and 2019. Total salaries: 2017 12M 2018 17M 2019 17M
I've read some crazy shit in here before but this takes the cake. How in the hell did you take that from me suggesting a 1st round pick for Thomas is unlikely? When did I ever address what the Browns need or don't need to be competitive at some magical point in the future? That's like a strawman argument about a strawman argument. You should win some kind of award for that one.
Really beach? That was the craziest thing you ever read in here? lol! smh.... You're the one who crops every line of every post and then overanalyzes the hell out it....I'm just giving you shit because you seem hellbent on us trading Joe Thomas away for scrap for some reason. *DONT_KNOW* ..You say there are all these rumors the we are shopping Thomas, so I ask what is your source, and all you can tell me is that I shouldn't listen to what our GM says... *DONT_KNOW*.. You say you know what the market is for Joe Thomas, even though he has never been traded nor has any player like him ever been traded. Comparing him to a Guard and a WR, and calling it the same thing is crazy in my book. Even crazier than the craziest thing you ever read in here... But it's all good....He's one of the only players over the last 25 years that Cleveland Browns fans can point to with any sense of pride. He's affordable and he's still whipping anybody that goes against him, and he's our one true team leader, but you think we should dump him for a 4th rounder and a cup of coffee, because that's all Logan Mankins was worth.... :|
Oh, and just for the record....It's "straw man".....Two words. You should get the award though, just for using that....I had to laugh at the double strawman argument take...well done.
You guys do realize that you've been arguing back and forth for days over a sarcastic comment I made about a Roethlisberger trade rumor that doesn't even exist. Right ?????
My source was overthcap.com which shows that money in play..if they failed to show that money already paid, it is their issue, not my paragraph. (P.S.) Just went to the other reputable contract website and it also shows his bonus money is still owed...so obviously you something neither of these reputable sites know...care to share? http://overthecap.com/player/ben-roethlisberger/1580/ http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/ben-roethlisberger-3595/ And another from this past January...from a Steelers website showing this money due this year and speculation that some of his salary would be converted, but to my knowledge nothing happened..and that was 10 months ago, not 18 months ago as you stated. http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/01/steelers-2016-salary-cap-early-offseason-look-ahead/ At this point, I am not even calling you out, I am genuinely curious about the numbers and how they could be manipulated in that manner for future reference. I am always eager to learn about cap money and what can be done to expedite payments to players in order to save on cap space.
It isn't about Roethlisberger Lym...it's about Beach believing the Browns WANT to trade Joe. That they will simply take the highest offer, which in his mind would be a low 2nd round pick at best. Then it evolved into his insistence that Roethlisberger's bonus money, that is pasted on every website covering cap space is now gone...paid 18 months ago. I'm curious...
Irish...maybe there's just a disconnect here between you and beach, so let me see if I can clarify. Ben's signing bonus was paid 18 months ago, and counts against the Steelers salary cap regardless of what they do with him. If he plays for them, if he's cut or if he's traded, the Steelers will continue to have that signing bonus count against THEIR salary cap. The team he is hypothetically traded to will ONLY be responsible for the future salary, and any remaining unpaid roster bonuses, in the remaining years, which is why his value would be so great for that team. The base salaries and roster bonuses is all they have to pay if they trade for him. I have no comment on the Joe Thomas stuff. I doubt they would trade him.
I know Mano, that is exactly what I stated and what Beach is refuting. The thing is, with prorated bonus money, once that player leaves the team, the salary cap is accelerated into the year he leaves...That is where I am confused on where beach..beach said it was paid and that bonus money no longer effects the Steelers in any way.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but this discussion was about Ben's possible trade value, right? The fact that the bonus money accelerates and counts immediately against the Steelers cap has no impact on his potential trade value to another team. In fact, it would force the Steelers to feel like they need to get even more for him because they are taking a big cap hit to trade him. His cap hit from the signing bonus is a reason that he would be considered a good value for a team trading for him. Its money that they don't have to pay or count against their cap. It solidifies his current deal as a good one for them and makes it easier to give up future picks knowing they aren't going to have to renegotiate his contract for a couple of years.
Not the trade value to the team he is being traded to, the impact it has on the Steelers..I said that I agreed it would take (3) first rounders due to the impact of the remaining bonus money on the Steelers. It would certainly have to be something worthy of overcoming that impact.
