lol! that's pretty rough stopper...I mean, hard to follow what you are even saying. I don't understand why you are so eager to give Joe Thomas away.....That is a head scratcher.
A great case can be made for the trade down, and a great case can be made for staying put and grabbing top QB at #2....With Griffin in the fold, we wouldn't be pressed to throw the rookie QB in before he's ready. Can ya imagine the Browns potentially having depth at the QB position? This is for certain; the speculation about what Cleveland is going to do is only going to increase.....Moneyball better get this right.
Cause they already gave up on this yr so why not get something 4 Thomas while u can....hell they culdnt win w him and the few good players they had so it will only get worse now
I can't disagree with trading Joe Thomas..In fact I kind of agree with it. If you look at the top teams in terms of perennial playoff teams. By and large, they spend about half as much as the Browns have over the past 5-10 years that Joe Thomas has been a Brown for their offensive lines. Their money is spent on specialty players, granted almost all of them have big money tied up in their franchise QBs, but they also have money tied up in WRs, TEs and RBs on offense...could that be WHY their QBs are perennially top of their position? My main point is that there MUST be someone that feels like they need to protect their QB willing to give up a first round draft pick for him...He is WORTH a first round pick. Thomas has 3 years left on his contract, so there is no danger of losing him to free agency soon...and those 3 years are relatively cheap for a top LT... 2016 $9.5M 2017 $10M 2018 $10M
I don't see how the Cleveland Browns improve by trading Joe Thomas for a second round pick....I get what you are saying about the winning, and I've been against spending 1st round draft picks on OL, but Thomas is the kind of guy we want in that locker room...We can't go back to 2007 and change the pick....He's on our team. He's loyal. He's a great player and a leader....If we can get a top 20 pick, then maybe.....but just trading him away and pointing to our W/L record as the reason makes no sense....We already lost our RT and center.
I love Joe Thomas, but I can see the argument for using him as a chip. I'm not sure where he gets the rep of "a great leader": solid citizen, loyal, tough, does things right.......OK, but leadership??? He's the longest standing member of the line, maybe the team, so he is a go to guy for the press, but how does he get leadership cred? You could argue that he was instrumental in helping Bitonio to develop so quickly, but wouldn't you have to give Mack some of that credit too? And if we are talking leadership, then what happened last year, and how does he lose 50% of his line mates? He may have leadership but he doesn't seem to have "influence" on his teammates. I'll grant that he does lead by example, but I just don't see much else to illustrate the "leadership" he's always credited with, at least not in the sense of a guy who raises the level of those around him on the field, and even in persuading others to give their all. I would hate to see him in another uniform, but it's possible his greatest contribution to the Browns may be in what his departure could bring us at this point. I would lament his departure, but wish him all the best. I even believe it would be in his best interest now that his posse is gone, and in all probability he'd go to a team that is competing for the prize. Love you Joe, but maybe now's the time to give the Browns your final gift, and be the guy who allowed them to start over with new blood. God, I hate having to lose such a great guy but this is the time or else he retires as a Brown, and never sniffs the hardware.
As for the "think tank" / FO, well so far I'm not impressed, but the offseason is just getting interesting, so we'll see. The one "miss" IMO they had was Schwartz, For a few bucks they could have kept him, but instead chose to hardline him, and send a message to their players, that they will assign you a number and that's it. If you don't take it, the next number will be lower. WTF? Now it may be true that they have decided on the level of spending they allocate to the O line, and were loath to adjust it, but c'mon, lowering your offer? What does that say? Did Schwartz become less valuable? Perhaps. Maybe his not getting a higher offer made it possible to get him for less, but it also made them look like they don't know how to negotiate, or are so money focused that they have no clue in dealing with people. I believe they understand and have a plan for how to spend, but if $500,000 is more valuable than growing trust with "good players", well YIKES. If it's to be that rigid, the money will surely come out right, but what of the hearts and minds of the guys who stay? Will they be giving their all, as the shitty season goes forward when management has already shown they hold money above team? Not impressed, but there is a draft to do, and hopefully they shoe more "emotional intelligence" as well as financial acumen as we move through the next step.
Why feel sorry for Joe Thomas?....Tons of guys have great careers and never sniff the "hardware"....Joe loves Cleveland. He wants to be a part of this organization.... Ken, were you expecting Joe Thomas to step up and bust out his wallet for Mack and Schwartz? C'mon man. You can't blame him for other guys seeking greener pastures. What kind of influence was he supposed to have???...Thomas ABSOLUTELY leads by example. He was pretty much the ONLY Browns player calling out Johnny for his immaturity and lack of preparation, long before it was obvious to everyone else....With all the shit this franchise has put him through, I'm surprised to hear that everybody wants him gone... he is still the best in the game no matter what offense we switch to every other year, and he has been nothing but a class act throughout, that speaks highly of the franchise.....I don't understand this momentum from everyone here to get rid of him....If we can secure a first round pick for him, let's talk.....If not....JT is our LT...That's it. You don't have to be Ray Lewis constantly running your pie-hole to be a leader....In fact, you don't have to say anything....Actions speak much louder.
What do you guys think of the DE from Oregon, DeForest Buckner? So far, he's about the only top 7 candidate that I haven't seen going to Cleveland in any of the mock drafts.....I even saw one on NFL.com yesterday with Tennessee taking Ramsey and us taking Tunsil.....I know these things are out there just to stir conversation, but I really am curious on this guy....The dude really is a monster....I'd consider him the #1 DE on the board for a 3-4 defense.....Just curious to see what other Browns fans thought. You guys know I get caught up in these mock drafts because I love this stuff...I'll have Cleveland in the main mock coming up in a few weeks. I've followed every thread on the Browns boards, so I have a good idea on the likes and dislikes of the Browns fans here, but there are a few top players that haven't been discussed much, and Buckner is one of them....
Stopper I don't want JT out of here. Yes he leads by example, and......... Calling out Johnny? meh. I would accept his being moved if it helps the team. period. I am not advocating for it. As far as leadership.......... Maybe he is a good leader. He's certainly a good man; loyal and true. Something sadly lacking in Browntown. But his leadership hasn't accomplished a lot, and thus how much would we miss it, in lieu of the mass re-organization, and new everything we are about to embark on? Just asking a valid question.
lol! stopper??? really Ken? Geez, I know nobody ever agrees with my takes, but c'mon man! I don't type in hieroglyphics for crying out loud....
I assume you are taliing about JT. Because lol on Johnny being a good man, loyal and true. He beat his girl, he betrayed his team with his decisions and lied about it. 3 strikes.
This. If you're going to get anything out of RGIII or a rookie you need to give him a fighting chance. Thomas is still playing at a high level.
I listened to a Mitchell Schwartz interview on NFL Radio and he went on and on about how hard it was leaving Thomas. Talked about what kind of leader and man he was and how difficult a decision it was. When pressed to talk about the so-called ultimatum he wouldn't reveal anything. Just kept saying in the end he and his family felt it was a great opportunity and he had heard great things about playing for Andy Reid (his brother played for him).
smh.....thanks beach. Leave it to a Steelers fan to show you the light... I can't believe that I have to defend Joe Thomas in the DPL, but that's just how phuquin sad it is here......
Wth joe?...Where is the Johnny confusion? lol! and why would anybody use words like "good, loyal and true" in describing him??? Obviously we were talking about Joe Thomas...
lmao! there are so many ways I can go with this...... *HIGH* I'm rather certain there was a misunderstanding somewhere....Ken is pretty sharp, and he wouldn't say good things about Manziel, nor would any Browns fan ever....
It has nothing 2 do w defending Thomas, this team is in a rebuilding phase and Thomas shuldnt b part of it....he is 31 yrs old and on the downside of his career....get a young buck in here that can build w the rest of the guys....the Browns havent won w him so whats the big deal?
With this new"moneyball" front office us fans need to take off the blinders. These guys were brought here to get Haslam his biggest return on his investment. The Cleveland Browns. Releasing players that didn't play to their payments. Now I didn't like Schwartz but he did his job and left for greener pastures. That's why they are building through the draft. They didn't have to give a pick up for RG3. They would have for Kaepernick. They want those middle Rd picks. That's why they didn't sign any good free agents. Just depth and special team guys. They signed a young, talented QB. This team has a lot of holes but they need to draft starting talent. Now instead of drafting a QB #2 and have him sitting for 3 years behind RG3 they can start drafting starters. I wanted Bosa with that pick but now it's Jack and then Ramsey. Defense wins Championships. Tunsil will be the #1 pick.Jack can get after the QB. We don't have that from an OLB. 2nd Rd look WR. We can draft a QB later in the draft. Hackenberg maybe? Hogan? With that #2 pick they have to get a playmaker. Jack and Ramsey fit that bill
