Did Manziel check himself into a real rehab facility or one with the country club atmosphere ? my guess is the Country club . I have doubts about his desire to help himself . the little weasel has had everything handed to him all his life . when he fails at the NFL Level and he will he can always fall back on daddys oil money . I agree upgrade the lines especially the defensive . being last against the run is embarassing and not acceptable to this old dawg .
The Morning Kickoff ? The forerunner: Before there was an NFL substance abuse program; or a Stage 1, 2 and 3; or a league Medical Director; or indefinite suspensions and player appeals and lawyers; there was the Inner Circle. That was the name of the drug and alcohol intervention program devised in 1980 by Browns coach Sam Rutigliano and Dr. Greg Collins of the Cleveland Clinic. It was one of a kind. The league wasn?t involved. The Browns were the only team helping their players deal with drug and alcohol addiction. ?We had nine players in it,? Rutigliano said. ?And every one of them made it. Just 2-3 years ago, I went to a big function of a company one of our guys was working for and he introduced me and said to all of them, ?This is Coach Sam, and he saved my life.? That was overwhelming.? So when Rutigliano sees that Johnny Manziel has entered ?treatment,? he knows what the 22-year-old quarterback is in store for. Brad Beckworth, who is described as a Manziel family adviser, did not specify what Manziel is being treated for. But Manziel?s notorious partying captured the past year on the Internet suggests that, at the least, alcohol is involved. ?It?s going to be very, very difficult,? Rutigliano said. ?The Browns have to be heavily involved making sure that he stays on course. This is not 30 days and I?m OK. That?s just the beginning. ?He?s going to go for 30 days and he?s going to come back to where he was. I think it takes a whole year. I?ve been through it.? Saving lives: Rutigliano has told the story of the inception of the Inner Circle for 35 years. ?One of the players who was living in Berea came into my office and said, ?Coach, can I talk to you?? He closed the door and said he lived in an apartment in Berea and had gone on the sixth floor on the roof and for the last week or two just wanted to jump off the roof and commit suicide,? Rutigliano said. Rutigliano got Collins involved and also highly trusted men such as Yale graduate Calvin Hill, a popular role player on the team, and Hall of Famer Paul Warfield, who was working in personnel at the time. Rutigliano informed the whole team what was going on and invited other players to counseling sessions. He guaranteed them anonymity. They trusted him, partially because they had no one else. They met once a week for 52 weeks. Soon, Rutigliano received a cold call from a player with the Minnesota Vikings. ?He said if you don?t call ?so and so? he?s gonna be dead. That player was (Browns running back) Charlie White. ?I called Charlie White in California. He came to my office and he denied everything. I told him I?m a guy helping you to get to Dr. Collins. I said, ?It?s 3 o?clock and if you?re not there by 3:30, it?s over. Your career is over.?? White later ?came out? and talked publicly about his participation. None of the other identities were made public. Rutigliano went to a league meeting in Hawaii to apprise Commissioner Pete Rozelle and other club owners what was happening with the Browns. Rozelle suggested publicizing the story ? without names -- and set up an interview with a New York sportswriter. ?It worked,? Rutigliano said of the Inner Circle. ?And nobody copied us. A lot of coaches questioned why we were doing this. A few thought I was so involved with the Inner Circle that I didn?t pay attention to what I was doing in coaching. That?s not true. As a matter of fact, the guys we saved were guys that played a long time and made a tremendous impact for the Browns.? Johnny and Josh: Rutigliano, 81, has continued to live in Lake County since he was fired by the Browns in 1984. He retired from coaching at Liberty University in 1999. From a distance, he observed Manziel and receiver Josh Gordon, a multiple offender of the NFL drug program, and concluded that they both have addiction problems. Gordon denied it in an open letter addressed to critics in the national media and posted on the Website, The Cauldron. ?My experience with it was that part of drugs and alcohol, and if you?re cross-addicted, they?re all pathological liars. That?s part of the sickness,? Rutigliano said. He believes that Gordon should follow Manziel?s lead and submit to treatment ?yesterday ? right now.? Rutigliano noted the stark difference in upbringing between Manziel, who comes from a well-to-do oil family in Kerrville, Texas, and Gordon, who grew up in poverty without a father in a drug-ridden neighborhood in Houston. ?Johnny Manziel probably finally made up his mind and if he had waited a half hour later, he probably wouldn?t have done it,? Rutigliano said. ?He has everything ? a mother, father, and so forth. ?Look at Josh Gordon, that poor kid, what he?s done with the opportunity he?s had. And the worst part about it is he?s not a bad kid. But it?s the drugs or the alcohol. ?When he had that big season a year ago, playing 14 games and breaking records, you would think after that, and seeing the big raise (cornerback) Joe Haden got ? he had the opportunity of a lifetime, and he continues to throw it away. The kid?s sick. When you have appendicitis, you don?t go to a dentist. You?ve got to go to the right people. ?It?s going to take a long time. It?s going to take forever.?
For me personally it is a realization, not an infatuation...We NEED a veteran QB to steer this team temporarily. I don't for one single second believe any QB in free agency is capable of being a long term QB for this team, not a single player... So, for me anyway, it is simple...Who gives us the best chance to teach a young mind, whether that is Manziel, Mariota, Grayson, Hundley, Petty or any other young QB looking for guidance to becoming successful. So, FOR ME, it starts with enough youth to be a successful holdover..So I started with early 30's or younger...made my list and it came down to experience... Here was my list: Brian Hoyer (the devil we know) age 30, 32 career games, with 17 career starts, record 10-7 Mark Sanchez age 29, 71 career games, with 70 career starts, record 37-33 Tarvarius Jackson age 32, 56 career games, with 34 career starts, record 17-17 Matt Flynn age 30, 53 career games, with 7 career starts, record 3-4 Ryan Mallett age 27, 7 career games, with 2 career starts, record 1-1 Matt Moore age 31, 49 career games, with 25 career starts, record 11-12 Christian Ponder age 27, 38 career games, with 36 career starts, record 14-21-1 Terrelle Pryor age 26, 16 career games, 10 with career starts, record 3-7 Blaine Gabbert age 26, 29 career games, with 27 career starts, record 5-22 Josh Johnson age 29, 29 career games, with 5 career starts, record 0-5 Austin Davis age 26, 10 career games, with 8 career starts, record 3-5 Jake Locker age 27, 30 career games, with 23 career starts, record 9-14 Colt McCoy age 29, 33 career games, with 25 career starts, record 7-18 All of these QBs have had adversity on the teams they played for. The Browns are attempting to build a team similar to those teams in New York in 2009-2010 Out of all of these free agents, Only Hoyer and Sanchez have winning records, Jackson breaks even.... I want someone that has experienced success. All the others didn't do enough to raise the level of play around them... Sanchez may have had the best roster of all the above names, but in his 6 seasons, he has only had 1 losing season at 6-9. He has had more winning success than any other QB available to us. All he knows is preparing to start games as he has started all but 1 game he has played in... THAT is why I would be interested in his veteran experience...It has NOTHING to do with any infatuation or delusions of grandeur in him leading this team any where but into the next generation of Cleveland Browns QB, whomever that may be... Please show me someone more worthy and why, and I will back you on that decision...
That's exactly my point, Irish. Nobody that's out there is worthy of being considered a long term solution. Sanchez has a career winning percentage of 0.530 . . . Hoyer is 0.590 (if you take out one "W" where he started but got knocked out of the game in the 1st quarter and one "L" in Arizona where he had a whole 8 days to prepare, that moves to 0.600). That difference may be negligible until, as you stated, one considers that Sanchez had a better roster around him. If you take out Sanchez' 2009 - 2010 seasons where he had that dominating defense, his record falls to 17-20 (0.460). In other words, Hoyer did more with less. I guess all I'm advocating is that we recognize that the next Tom Brady isn't going to show up in Berea in the foreseeable future. We may as well strengthen the roster everywhere else and then take stock of QB options beginning in 2016 or beyond. I simply don't believe that Mark Sanchez is an upgrade over what we have (or could have) right now.
I am sticking with Matt Moore on this one. Sanchez took a team last season that had a chance to win the NFC East, with a 6-2 record and guided them to a 10-6 record (4-4 starting) that included a 3 game losing streak against 2 divisional opponents that ultimately cost them a shot at the playoffs. He is going to be overpaid in a quarterback weak market by a team with desperation. Sanchez has a career 3.8 TD%, Moore has a 4.3 TD%. Moore basically had one season in MIA to prove his worth and he went 4-6 with 16 TDs and 9 picks. The win/loss percentage is not there, but look at the roster and coaching situation that Moore is working with compared to the roster/coaching that Sanchez is working with in his best statistical season, in which by the way, Mark finished 8-8. MIAMI NEW YORK You can also look at Matt's record and numbers when given a stable situation to work in - http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/car/2009.htm Moore will cost less and carries no baggage. He is an ideal quarterback to step into the situation the Browns have and make a positive impact. Considering how things went down with Hoyer last season I would advocate taking Moore over Brian in free agency to be Cleveland's starter in 2015.
No there isn't any one out there, but the RBs can't hand the ball off to themselves, we have to find someone... First off, I am going off the assumption, given two similar opportunities Hoyer would prefer an opportunity elsewhere based on how he ended last season being supplanted by a Manziel who wasn't ready to start an NFL game, despite Hoyer putting the Browns in a playoff situation...He failed miserably down the stretch, but they also took the ball out of his hands. So, I am thinking elsewhere in case he is biased. Second, why on earth would you discount Sanchez' first two seasons? What about that roster screams head and shoulders above what the Browns currently (and last year) have on the roster? In 2009, Jerricho Cotchery was the team's leading receiver, who is on par with the Browns Andrew Hawkins. I would argue Jordan Cameron is a better TE than Dustin Keller. Third, and maybe most important, don't discount Sanchez' experience preparing for playoff games as a starter...he is 4-2 in the playoffs...He is the only one with playoff starter experience period. This next hire at the position is for experience to teach the next man up, nothing more. In that respect, Mark Sanchez is head and shoulders above any other candidate.
And Brian Hoyer took a team with a chance to be a playoff team and lost 3 in a row, to go to the point where the staff had no choice but start a Manziel that wasn't ready... Matt Moore is an unknown commodity who has been a backup on teams that he should have had an opportunity to win a starting gig...and failed. He has competed with: 2007 a 44 year old Testaverde and washed up David Carr and Jake Delhomme 2009 His best season, he took over for a failed Delhomme to go 4-1 down the stretch 2010 Battled a terrible Jimmy Clausen and lost 4 of his 5 starts 2011 Was given a REAL opportunity to lead a Dolphins team with a lot of talent on the roster and managed to go 4-8..He was sacked 36 times in 12 starts/13 games...Mobility isn't a strong suit. Hasn't started since that opportunity, because the Dolphins coaching staff realized he wasn't a starter quality QB. What does he bring to the table to make him your chosen one? In this case, stats don't separate Moore from any of the other available QBs. Really, he doesn't have anything to bring to the table. Sanchez and Hoyer are the only two that have something redeeming... Hoyer has familiarity with the team and has experienced moderate success Sanchez has BY FAR more experience to pass along to a young QB than any one else considered...It isn't even close. We are not trying to find the future of the franchise here, that guy is not available. We are trying to find the person most capable of getting the next man up prepared. (edit How much savings do you think Moore will be over Sanchez? Especially given the Browns salary cap situation? I don't care if a QB A costs $2M per year and QB B cost $9M per year, if QB B is going to give me more in terms of long term solutions, I spend on QB B. Thinking in long term, Sanchez has the most to offer the young guys in experience. THEY are the future, not any of these other guys we are discussing...
What exactly do you believe Sanchez offers these young players? He was a first round pick that was criticized by his own teammates for not taking the job serious enough in New York where it was rumored that his image and nightlife were more important to him. Sound familiar? There is nothing in Sanchez resume to suggest that he will be some kind of mentor or stabilizing force. His history would suggest the opposite. In 2011, Matt Moore was not slated as the starter (Chad Henne was) but came off the bench when Henne went 0-4 to start the season. The offense was built around a team that Tony Sporano was guiding until he was fired and replaced by Todd Bowles. Not exactly ideal circumstances for a guy's first real opportunity. And he was 4-6 by the way, not 4-8 (he was actually 6-6 if you go by the boxscores. He left 2 games early due to injury, the Dolphins were 6-10 so it is mathematically impossible that he started 12 games and only won 4 if Henne started 4 and lost them all). And week 17 of the 2011 season culminated in the Dolphins facing the Jets where the New York needed to win to make the playoffs. Mark Sanchez threw 3 INTs in that game in a losing effort to Matt Moore's Dolphins. In 2007 Jake had 8 TDs to 1 INT before being injured and was entrenched as the starter in Carolina. Matt Moore was a 23 year old undrafted rookie playing 4th string behind 2 veteran signal callers. What opportunity did he have to beat out Jake in 2007? In 2010 Moore was scapegoated when an anemic offense was at the bottom of the league in almost every statistical category. It was John Fox's last season in Carolina and it was a disaster. As for the sacks, you do realize that in the same amount of starts for Sanchez and Foles that Nick had 9 sacks, Mark has 23. In 2011 Moore went to Miami to compete for the job and should have been named the day 1 starter, but Miami opted to go with the familiar face in Henne and it cost them the beginning of their season. In 2012 the Dolphins hired Joe Philbin as head coach and they drafted Ryan Tannehill to be the future of the franchise. Matt has done an excellent job of helping Tannehill adjust to the NFL, especially considering his collegiate background, don't you think? I have no idea why you believe it was an open competition in 2007 for the Carolina job. They were a season removed from a Conference Championship loss with Jake as the starter. Undrafted rookies do not get the same amount of leeway as former first round picks in this league. The fact that Matt is 30 and still the primary back-up in Miami tells a lot about what they think of his capabilities. As far as 'the chosen one', I am simply looking at the available options and making a decision based on the information in front of me. Right now it tells me that Matt Moore is at the top of my list. As for the salary cap, you and I have a fundamental difference in opinion on how the Browns would be best served in spending their money this off-season. My plan has less room for spending money on over-priced players that would serve the same purpose, or perhaps to a lesser degree, than a guy that is not only a solid buy but an ideal option for this specific situation.
The devil you know. Well I'll say this for Hoyer, he did get a team off to a strong start this year, largely by teaching the strangers he had at WR and RB what the plays were, and what to do. I believe he is a student of the game, but it bothered me that after winning a few games, he seemed to shift from "team first" to "me first", by talking contract, during the short time span when he was truly leading the team and winning. Is it a co-incidence that then following the Pittsburgh game, he and the team went in the toilet? On the plus side he would be my first choice for a guy to adopt another new Offense, and help teach it to the players. On the other hand, I fear he will have "zero" interest in mentoring Johnny or Johnny's replacement, assuming he flames out. The positive of bringing in Moore or Sanchez, is they don't carry any Cleveland baggage. I would be shocked if Hoyer doesn't have some pretty hard feelings about how things went down last season. Between Mallet / Sanchez...... I've seen enough of Sanchez to know I don't trust him to mentor my pet goldfish. I don't think poise and/or intellect are mentioned when discussing Sanchez. I admit I am largely uninformed on Moore, so choosing him is more a veto of Sanchez. Right now I am for Hoyer (the devil I know), who I believe can "handle the team", given a solid running game and the O line he had early last year. This isn't the year to find your "franchise QB", unless someone comes along like Brady who is taken late as a project who turns out to be a "kingmaker" (like Brady did for Belichek).
I am 100% behind those of you who are championing the build the O line and the D now, then when oppty knocks, and a QB worthy of "franchise" commitment comes along..... find a way to be there.
So your argument is that you are impressed with Matt Moore's skills? As for the salary cap, you and I have a fundamental difference in opinion on how the Browns would be best served in spending their money this off-season. My plan has less room for spending money on over-priced players that would serve the same purpose, or perhaps to a lesser degree, than a guy that is not only a solid buy but an ideal option for this specific situation. I'm not not sure what we are debating here...Matt Moore latest contract was 2YR.$8M, $2.5M year 1 and $5.5M year 2... Sanchez is coming off a 1 YR $2.25M contract Sanchez is cheaper with twice as much experience. I think Sanchez can be had for a 2YR $6.5M deal, $3M guaranteed Where are these off field issues? I honestly haven't seen that about him. Maybe I am wrong, but I can't imagine a guy that has started 25 games would have more to offer than a guy who has started 70. ..in 5 years
I am surprised that you do not know about Sanchez and his lack of commitment being documented from his very first season in New York. I am going to guess, based on your previous response, that you have not watched a lot of Matt Moore and have not done any research on his history in the league. He has prototypical size and his skill set is superior to Hoyer's. He is not as athletic as Sanchez but he can make all the throws and arm strength is not an issue. His career numbers in rating, completion percentage and TD to INT ratio are better than Mark's. You are looking for a mentor that will eventually help a young QB make the adjustment into the league. So I pointed out the obvious in Tannehill. As for the contract, Sanchez is going to be overpaid this off-season to either stay in Philly or to move to a team that is desperate for a starter. How much is yet to be seen but I believe he will easily get more money than his last deal and it might be double that per season depending on how the market flows. This is not a great draft for QBs, it should have some influence on FA paydays. I'm not saying Moore is the savior of the franchise, but I like him better than Sanchez to guide the ship until a franchise QB is drafted or signed. He comes with less baggage and if you take a closer look at his career and the circumstances that brought him to Miami you will see there is upside in taking a shot at him for a starter for the next 3 seasons. It gives you time to search for the franchise player while being able to play competitive football with a stable signal caller. Nothing flashy, just effective.
Well that all sounds like a great plan, but obviously identifying the next "franchise" guy is much easier said than done. Will the Browns know when the "opportunity" is knocking?? I'm not sure this franchise, or any other for that matter, has a guy that can tell you who will succeed at QB in the NFL...I mean, yes, some are obvious (Luck, Manning, Aikman, Elway etc), but we've been down this road before and it can be rough.. In fact, it seems most of the teams in the NFL that are "set" at quarterback, didn't have any idea what they had when they got him. Everybody talks about Tom Brady, but look around the entire league. League MVP, Aaron Rodgers slid down the board on draft day. Nobody wanted Wilson, he was too small. Tony Romo wasn't drafted at all. Every team passed on Drew Brees , presumably for the same reasons as Wilson. Joe Flacco was a 2nd rounder...I could go on, but the point is, this is clearly not an exact science. All the "experts" are saying this is a weak class for QB's entering the NFL draft, but I'm not sure how much stock to put into that analysis....Maybe Hundley IS the next great one....Maybe the kid from Colorado State is....Who knows? The "experts" have been wrong enough, particularly in regards to projecting quarterbacks and how their skills will translate to the NFL, that I'm not going into this draft with the mindset that there is no "franchise" guy to be found. You can't measure what's inside a man. Brady didn't look like much, but nobody knew how bad he wanted it and how determined he was. Nobody knew how much he loved the game..... Not saying we are going to find the "future" of the Cleveland Browns this off-season, but I am saying that just because the "experts" are saying the next great one isn't in this draft....well i think you get my point.
Bluez, absolutely I'm in on the fantasy baseball, i think i enjoy that as much as the football. Lookin forward to defending the title....That water logged baseball wasn't easy to acquire, and i'm planning to keep it for a while
It is all over 92.3 the fan this morning that the Browns are looking to trade #12 and #19 to move up and take Mariota.
1) Glennon - Upside as well as his showing the ability to win, the ability to minimize mistakes, the ability to overcome mistakes. 2) Hoyer - Has shown the ability to overcome & minimize mistakes. But, he's also shown his inability to overcome pressure from a kid nipping at his heels. 3) Sanchez - Has shown the ability to put up numbers, has the experience, even playoff experience. But, like that broken record, I have to say that I really wouldn't want him because of his inability to overcome his mistakes. Seems to dwell too much, rather than focus on leading a comeback. By no means does he minimize mistakes. Pettine's overall gameplan seems to focus on minimizing mistakes, with the emphasis on the QB following that plan. Establish the run, win the TO Box, win the TOP Box, win the Penalty Box, & win the Red Zone Efficiency Box. 3 of 4 / 4 of 4 produces an 80% + chance of winning a game.
Citing team sources, Bleacher Report's Jason Cole reports the Browns will give "very strong consideration" to trading up for Oregon QB Marcus Mariota. With the No. 12 and 19 picks, and 10 selections overall, the Browns certainly have the ammo for a move up, but it's possible they'd have to vault all the way to No. 1. ESPN's Adam Schefter has reported there's a "real sense" the Bucs are eyeing the Heisman Trophy winner. There will be lots of offseason noise about the Browns moving on from Johnny Manziel, but a serious move for Mariota is an unlikely avenue. If nothing else, the reports serve as a way for Cleveland to try to scare Manziel straight
