Just to quote the article, Greco actually ranked "Good" not average, as you mentioned above...so apparently we only need a RT, not a RG...Mack fell to average because he missed half the season. This article was based on PFF rankings, which a computer analysis of every play a player makes, where it is made, what down it was made, etc...then also averages it against other players by number of plays and other variables...
Too bad Johnny didn't have enough snaps to qualify to be rated. They would have to come up with a lower category.
In all honesty Irish I would argue that perennial changes in coaching staff and FO personnel is the reason the Browns are not contenders. I think you hit the nail on the head several days ago when you intimated that SEA beat GB because of their great "TEAM" effort and never say die attitude. I am hopeful that after Jim Bob and the top executives return from their little retreat, that they developed a plan to create and implement a very strong "Team First" atmosphere from the upper most levels all the way down to the janitorial staff within the Browns organization. Side note... Rumor mill has it that the Browns are interviewing former QB Steve Walsh to be the next QB coach. I'm not sure how to feel about that. All I know is that he's been a HS coach for the last few years, perhaps that will help him in dealing with our problem child JF. Thoughts...
So they factory of sadness continues! Well Johnny Drunk will make 6.5m sitting on the pine or maybe Haslam will demand he plays because that was his pick. If he plays, his team doesn't respect him and frankly he sucks or we sign a veteran QB and Manziel rides the pine to the tune of 1.5m or 6.5m total. WOW!
Lake Johnny already received the bulk of his rookie contract in the form of a signing bonus. He received a 5.3M signing bonus last year and his base salaries are very reasonable: 2015: 794,000 2016: 1.2M 2017: 1.3M And those base salaries are guaranteed. So unless you can trade him the Browns are paying them whether or not he remains on the roster. Unless he's tearing your team apart there is simply no reason to cut him (not that you were suggesting that).
CBS reports that CFL star WR DERON CARTER signs with the Colts. When you lose you may as well snooze! Man right now the Cavs are taking it to the Detroit Pistons 42-35 1:00 left in the 2nd. Is there any way we can get Gilbert to buy the Browns and Indians for that matter. I know from work that he is investing a chit load of money into downtown.
He was fine until Mack went down. The article is a freaking joke anyway. Look at how they classified Mack. Zero credibility. None.
Beach you hit it squarely, the question is does he tear the team apart? That was my point on cutting him, and if the cost of either option remains the same, then cut him. Lym or Irish had a different take on the money aspect than what you outlined, which would support keeping him, for financial reasons. Going back to Irish's "team first" message, or Pettine's "play like a Brown" mantra: cutting him may be the right move. I just think keeping him while asking others to "put team first" Johnny is the exact opposite of that, at least to this point. Does he have "any" value to the Browns? As Lym asked: if you were another team's GM, would you trade anything to get him? Neither would I." I recognize that QB is our biggest need by a huge margin, but at the same time completely agree with Lym, again, we shouldn't "reach" for a prize that isn't there, improve the team across all other fronts and go for the QB when he is there. The only up side, is if Johnny turns himself around, not his game, himself. Anyone taking odds on that? As a person, I hope he pulls himself together, but as a team mate, owner, coach, or even a fan, I don't want to have to sacrifice my team's opportunities for his sins. Him becoming even a "contributing" player is not even 50 / 50, at a position that requires a greater commitment than any other.
I hope all are well, under the weather through holidays. Browns knew Gordon was a burner, now the NFL can throw him away.
okay, i'm done griping about the sad way our season went haywire. Cheers. A round on me. It's been a good read..There were indeed some positives . The Browns certainly showed that they can play with anybody. They even had a couple wins where they were downright dominant against divisional foes that went to the playoffs. Not something we see around here EVER, and absolutely valid reasons for optimism.... Clearly QB is still a huge problem. Somebody mentioned it earlier and I sorta like the idea of going after Nick Foles....and I'd be really excited if we could land Ndamakong Suh...I know he's edgy and has made some bonehead moves, but what a beast. There is no more intimidating player in the league than Suh. Maybe it's just from years of seeing the Browns get sand kicked in their faces. Who knows? But we could use some of that in Cleveland. Bring that mean mofo in here!
The Morning Kickoff ? Quarterback retreat: The Browns? top executives ? owner Jimmy Haslam and his inner circle of football and business advisers -- conclude their first ?strategic planning session? on Tuesday. Among the presumed topics on the agenda during the three-day bonding and self-analytical event: Quarterback: Where do we go from here? The organization that cast a wide net over all draft-eligible quarterbacks one year ago and worked out 14 of them and concluded that Johnny Manziel was the very best of the bunch, is back on the hunt. ?We don?t know who our quarterback is going to be next year,? Haslam said before departing for Haslam-apalooza 2015 in an undisclosed location. ?All I would say to our fans is we?re going to continue to work really hard to find that quarterback who can make us a championship team.? Gone are the top two offensive coaches from a year ago: Kyle Shanahan and Dowell Loggains. In their place is John DeFilippo and a yet-to-be-named quarterbacks coach. I?ve often felt that in order to find a franchise quarterback, an organization has to have a ?quarterback point man,? somebody schooled in the inexact science of knowing one when he sees one. That person can be a coach, a scout, a general manager ? somebody in football operations whose expertise is centered on the sport?s most important position. Whenever I think of quarterbacks, I go back to Ernie Accorsi, the general manager who acquired the last Browns? home-grown QB of note, Bernie Kosar. Pearls of wisdom: These are some of the quarterbacks Accorsi was associated with in his 37 years in the NFL, which ended in retirement as GM of the New York Giants in 2007 after stints in various capacities with the old Baltimore Colts and Cleveland Browns: Johnny Unitas, Bert Jones, John Elway, Bernie Kosar, Gary Danielson, Eli Manning, Kurt Warner (yes, for one season with the Giants in between Super Bowl runs with the Rams and Cardinals). Here are some of Accorsi?s observations about quarterbacks in a conversation I had with him this week: ?If you write down the championship quarterbacks ever since the T-formation finally came into the NFL and stayed in, you?re basically talking about the Hall of Fame. ?There are exceptions to every rule, but it takes special circumstances to win championships when you don?t have one.? ?If you want to win every year and compete every year, you?d better have a great one. You can win with an average quarterback, yeah. But you better have the ?85 Bears defense or the 2000 Ravens defense. You have to have some other exceptions and usually it lasts one year. ?Don Klosterman (1970s-era Colts general manager) schooled me. He said, ?Evaluate a quarterback on his ability to take a team down the field with a championship on the line and into the end zone. And if you?re playing against him, does he put a lump in your throat?? ?If I were to define leadership, it was to look over at Unitas and see him in the first seat (of the team bus) and know that you had a chance. Accorsi recently completed a stint as consultant for the Chicago Bears in their search for a coach. (They chose John Fox, who was let go by the Denver Broncos after four consecutive AFC West Division titles.) ?I was just involved with interviewing these coaches and some of them would say, ?I don?t think the quarterback?s that important because not everybody can get one and if you don?t have one you have to play anyway.? And my response to that was, ?That?s why we?re interviewing you, why the job?s open. That?s the job. You have to find him.?? The Browns? gurus: These are the key men involved in the search for the next Browns? quarterback: General Manager Ray Farmer; Bill Kuharich, executive chief of staff; coach Mike Pettine; and coordinator John DeFilippo. Now take a look at the quarterbacks associated with these men in previous capacities with teams in their NFL careers: Farmer: Michael Vick (Falcons), Damon Huard (Chiefs), Tyler Thigpen (Chiefs), Matt Cassel (Chiefs), Brian Hoyer (Browns), Manziel (Browns). Kuharich: Bobby Hebert (Saints), Steve Walsh (Saints), Jim Everett (Saints), Billy Joe Tolliver (Saints), Elvis Grbac (Chiefs), Trent Green (Chiefs), Huard (Chiefs), Thigpen (Chiefs), Cassel (Chiefs). Pettine: Kyle Boller (Ravens), Steve McNair (Ravens), Joe Flacco (Ravens), Mark Sanchez (Jets), EJ Manuel (Bills), Hoyer (Browns), Manziel (Browns). DeFilippo: Daunte Culpepper (Raiders), JaMarcus Russell (Raiders), Sanchez (Jets), Carson Palmer (Raiders), Terrelle Pryor (Raiders), Matt McGloin (Raiders), Derek Carr (Raiders). So go get?em, guys. We?re all counting on you.
CNS.comphilly just had an article that asked. What would Foles be worth in a trade? They need picks for Mariota. They have the 20th pick I believe. The article mentioned that there have been 3 teams to ask about Foles already. The only team they named was the Rams. Would the Rams give their #10 pick for Foles? The article said that it would probably take a 2nd rd pick and a conditional pick, more than likely another 2nd rd one. Foles is better than any P.O.S QB we have on this team. if all that it takes is 2, 2nd rd picks then I pull the trigger. Foles is better than any FA out there. This team has 2 1st rd picks, tons of money fix the F$#%$#$ QB problem! I know what of you will say..(sigh) but he is better than Moore, Locker, Mallett, Sanchez, Johnny Drunk, Shaw, Hoyer and Bradford.
TD We think a lot alike. I like Foles also. To me he is this teams best option to pursuit. He is young, has a good arm and has good size at 6-6 230. After reading that article last night about Philly I would most definitely kick the tires on him. Our new OC has worked and achieved good things with QB's. If it cost us 2, 2nd rd picks for a franchise guy like Foles then I AM IN! I would give them this years and next years 2nd rd pick in a heart beat. The Eagles then could package their picks to move up and get Mariota.
Just to buck the trend of Browns players gone bad being posted on here, here is a nice little bit about Joe Haden. Class act, if you ask me.
So Els, what do you think about the Browns going after Suh to shore up that leaky run D? If any team has the money and room it should be Cleveland. They'll probably have to make him the highest paid D-lineman in history to get it done....Looks like Detroit is going to let him hit the market. (at least that's the last I heard) Personally, I think it would make an already good defense into a potentially great defense. I don't care about the 3-4 or 4-3 crap, that dude can play in any defensive front with his combo of strength, size and speed....AND, most importantly, he's still a young man. Plenty of tread left on the tires there... Our strength is our secondary on D, though much more is clearly expected out of Gilbert...When Dansby was rolling, those LB's were playing well.....but the injuries up front to Taylor and Rubin hurt us all season long...I say if ya got the room and the funds to make it happen, go hard after Suh.....
TD, I'm not going to deny the play of Suh or his toughness. The man is a beast, lol! I will agree with you that our defensive line needs help and 1 of those positions that I want to pursuit in FA is DT. But yes there is a but, Suh will get 16m-22m a year. That would eat up half of our money to spend in FA. We are going to over pay for what ever player we bring in here. I know that sucks but that's our reality. The free agent positions that I want to see us bring in is QB, RG, WR and DT. I want to try an trade for Foles but I'll call him a FA. So that means RG, WR, DT and TE if we trade for Foles because we will lose a pick or 2. If we were a playoff team or a winning team say 9-7 and had this type of money then YES I would drop 16m-22m on SUH. We need to fill to many spots right now to sign for luxury and that's what Suh would be.
Phil Taylor a Brown for life. I'm on board *OK* How about you [:} http://cle.247sports.com/Bolt/Phil-Taylor-I-want-to-retire-as-a-Brown-35117478
I'm down with that. But Rubin a free agent makes 8.1m or something like that. He has to go. Does anyone know if we are sticking with the 3-4 or switching back to 4-3? Man the Cavs are rolling. Without James tonight they are taking it to the Trailblazers. The Cavs right now are looking like the team to beat. Haslam and the Browns better be on alert. If the Cavs win this thing after looking lost the last 4 years the Browns are in trouble! Who would of thought that the Cavs could be the team to take us to the promise land! My dad always said this. If the Cavs win a championship there will be a great party downtown, if the Indians win a World Series there will be one hell of a party downtown but if the Browns could ever get it right and win the Super Bowl the fans here would burn Cleveland down! By the way this team has been ran the last 16 years, I can't see that happening. So GOOOOOOO CAVS ride that Buckeye Wave!
