Watching Channel 3 sports with Donovan he said it was time to part with Gordon. As he was talking images of Brown, Mitchell, Warfield, Groza and Bernie, Newsome and Hickerson were shown. He said it is time this franchise drafts and brings in guy's that want to be part of 1 of the greatest franchises in all of sports. I'm not going to lie, fellas I teared up! Wondering how it got so bad here. What happened and better yet how in the hell do we fix it? I agree with Donovan. We need to trade, release or whatever any player that doesn't want to be here. Yes, that is Gordon and Manziel. They can be replaced. After watching that interview with Donovan I got mad. I feel like I just got sucker punched in a bar. I'm Irish and from Cleveland. So after that punch you spit out the blood and you come out F$%#@#$ swinging. In Cleveland that's what we are taught to do. I expect the Browns to do the same. We need a veteran QB. If they choose that it's Foles then make the F$%#@#$ trade and get it done. Draft and sign a damn WR. Sign a F$#%^$# RG. They need to change the culture around here. If that means trading a pick or 2 for a franchise QB DO IT DAMMIT! Then rise from the ashes. With money to spend and extra draft picks this is the year to do it. We even have a new OC coming in here. NOW, NOW, NOW is the right time! We are all down. But remember what Lebron said. " In Northeast Ohio YOU EARN EVERYTHING YOU GET!" ALWAYS, TILL I DIE AND EVEN THERE AFTER!!!!! GO BROWNS!!!!!!
{sigh} One more time . . . THERE IS NO PHUQUING FRANCHISE QB OUT THERE TO BE HAD! *WALL* Els, I appreciate and share your frustration but tell me who that elusive franchise QB is. And with all due respect, please do not trot out the names of Foles, Sanchez, Gabbert, Locker, et al. If they were truly "Franchise QB's", they wouldn't be available. Here's a short list of the current perceived "Franchise Quarterbacks" and how they got to the team they're on; o Tom Brady - drafted by the Patriots o Aaron Rodgers - drafted by the Packers o Ben Roethlisberger - drafted by the Steelers o Russell Wilson - drafted by the Seahawks o Peyton Manning - drafted by the Colts, dumped into FA due to injury concerns o Drew Bees - drafted by the Chargers, dumped into FA due to injury concerns Do you know of any of these guys who are in danger of being dumped into Free Agency? Me neither. Do you honestly see any Quarterbacks in the draft who qualify (including Mariota and Winston)? Me neither. Its as simple as this . . . I don't see a "Franchise Quarterback" in our near future. So, shy of getting lucky and having one somehow fall into our lap, do the next best thing. Improve everything else on the roster and wait. "When life gives you lemons - make lemonade"
Then Lym we are F%^$#$! plain and simple. Then they should bring back Hoyer. Then build the team around him. But if they do that they need to trade Manziel.That move will divide the team like it did last year. Then draft another QB Petty, Grayson whoever! They blew or should I say Haslam blew it last year when he demanded the draft of Manziel. But I'm not looking back anymore with this franchise.
It doesn't have to be Hoyer. It just as well could be Matt Moore, or any of the other FA Quarterbacks we discussed. Any of them will cost about the same but none of them are "Franchise" quarterbacks. Needing to trade someone and finding someone to trade with would be almost impossible in this case. I get the sense that the locker room was divided up to the point where Manziel crapped his pants on the field. Now they all know how he performs and why he performs that way. Don't think they would have a problem whatsoever seeing JM flattening his ass on the bench until he can be economically cut. The only downside is he will cost us a roster spot unless they can find a ST guy who can both punt and kick field goals.
Would it matter?? He gets injured every year. He'd only help you for 10 games if you're lucky, more likely 3-6 games.
I agree Lym that it doesn't have to be Hoyer. I know about Moore and his stats but not the ins & outs of him, you know what I mean. Basically I haven't watched a lot of him and that Miami is going with Tannehill. Lym man I am so sick of the revolving door at QB. It is a must that this time around we get this QB situation settled. I don't think that with Haslam's ego that he will trade Manziel. I think we both know it was him who pulled the trigger on Manziel and now has to live with that. Again I am done talking about blown draft picks. I want to move forward in this organization. I think Moore is 29 years old. Manziel right now is a backup QB in my mind. Johnny is cost friendly and young. Worth keeping around to see if this new OC can make him better. When I think of free agents I want to make improvements at what I have already. Especially with the money we have to spend. I really don't want to use any picks to make any type of trades. I just want improvements to the roster. I do think that JM & Gordon were the cancers on this team. Now that 1 is gone maybe that will help out JM. I think this is a defensive heavy draft. At first I wanted a RT then WR in the 1st rd. But now I want an OLB then WR. As I said before. If we could land Ray/Beasley/Thompson with that 1st pick then we're going to need a WR so White/Parker/Strong. Another guy I like is Sammie Coates WR Auburn. But not in the 1st rd he may be there in the 2nd though. I think it was you that brought up Iupati to play RG. I now agree with that too. Or Franklin, Reitz or Carpenter. If I'm going to spend that cabbage then I am spending it on my line 1st. Everything else will fall into place. We need to shore up that right side and get Schwartz some help over there. Next in free agency I would look at DT. A veteran DT will know what it takes to succeed in this league. That and there is a lot of talented DE in this draft. Thirdly I would sign a veteran WR. I think the lack of leadership in this group showed last year. Gordon wasn't there and was disruptive anyway when he was. Every group on this team needs LEADERSHIP! Another position I would sign is TE. Niles Paul, Clay or I would make Thomas an offer he can't refuse! He is going to want to get paid and we can do that. So basically Lym I want to sign. 1. QB 2. RG 3. DT 4. WR 5. TE Then draft 1. OLB 1. WR 2. ILB 3. DE 4. QB 5. Depth 6. Depth 7. Depth That's what I would try to do. Farmer needs to make these picks count. That would be targeting positions of need and adding depth to the roster.
Pro Bowl? Memorable? Well, it used to be, and the Browns played a part. 1951: Three weeks after the Browns won the championship in their first NFL season with a thrilling 30?28 home win over the Rams, the inaugural Pro Bowl was held at the Los Angeles Coliseum. Paul Brown and Joe Stydahar were rematched as the opposing coaches. Unlike the modern pattycake affairs, this game was hard-hitting and closely contested. Browns legend Otto Graham went most of the way at quarterback, scoring two touchdowns on sneaks and throwing for another. Six other Browns played that day, but the great Graham was named Player of the Game in the East?s 28?27 comeback win. 1953: Graham scored the only touchdown for the Eastern Conference ?Americans? coached by Paul Brown, but he was also intercepted five times and lost a fumble in the 27?7 loss. 1962: Cleveland?s phenomenal fullback Jim Brown shed four tacklers for a Pro Bowl record 70-yard scoring run, giving his side a late 30?24 lead. Moments after being announced as the game?s MVP, as the East milked the clock, Brown fumbled deep in his own end. The Bears? Bill George made the hit and recovery, giving Johnny Unitas a last-ditch chance to work his magic, which he did. Rams back Jon Arnett made the game-winning catch on his knees as time expired. 1963: Four days after the stunning dismissal of longtime coach Paul Brown, Jim Brown broke his year-old game record with 141 rushing yards, including first-quarter scoring runs of 1 and 50 yards in the East?s 30?20 win. 1965: Two weeks after leading the Browns to a stunning 27?0 title game triumph over Baltimore, quarterback Frank Ryan felt the brunt of Colts? end Gino Marchetti?s anger. Reportedly still seething from Ryan?s choice to pass to Johnny Brewer in the dying seconds of the championship game, Marchetti sacked Ryan with a vengeance in the second quarter, knocking him out of the exhibition with a separated shoulder that required surgery and ultimately shortened his career. 1966: In what would turn out to be his last game, Jim Brown scored three times in a 36?7 romp at the Los Angeles Coliseum. Coach Blanton Collier led the East squad, which included Browns QB Frank Ryan, WR Gary Collins, guards Gene Hickerson and John Wooten, OT Dick Schafrath, LB Jim Houston and DE Paul Wiggin. 1990: Browns coach Bud Carson coached the AFC in Honolulu, and Cleveland was represented by five players. Defensive starters Michael Dean Perry, Clay Matthews and Frank Minnifield were joined by WR Webster Slaughter and LB Mike Johnson. Johnson picked off Mark Rypien midway through the fourth quarter, the 22-yard touchdown return narrowing their deficit to six points. With five seconds left Dave Krieg of Seattle (then in the AFC) found teammate Brian Blades in the end zone for the probable winning touchdown. But the officials flagged a lineman for illegal formation, a technicality that sealed a 27?21 NFL win. 2008: This game served as a consolation prize of sorts for Browns fans deprived of a playoff appearance despite a 10?6 record. The previous eight years had seen only one Brown Pro Bowl appearance (Jamir Miller in 2002), so six solid orange helmets in Hawaii seemed remarkable. Derek Anderson played more than any quarterback, but he was atrocious, going 10-for?26 for 103 yards and one interception, with a passer rating of just 34.6. The best Browns moments in the 42?30 AFC loss ended up being Braylon Edwards? 31-yard catch from Peyton Manning to set up an early score and Josh Cribbs? 41-yard kickoff return. 2011: With the Pro Bowl devolved into something of a farce, and only two offensive lineman, Joe Thomas and Alex Mack, to represent the Browns, Cleveland fans had little reason to tune in. But most of them eventually saw one bizarre highlight that embodied what this exhibition had become. With the AFC down 20 points in the final minute, QB Matt Cassel found teammate Dwayne Bowe deep over the middle. He lateraled to Montell Owens, who eventually flipped the ball back to the waiting Mack. The Browns? center rumbled down the left sideline 40 yards to complete an absurdly amusing 67-yard scoring play. Excerpted from the upcoming book Brown for the Count: A Compendium of Cleveland Browns Lists, now available for pre-ordering.
Thanks for the guided tour down memeory lane Bluez. I remember watching every single player you mentioned, some of whom I wouldn't be able to name, but seeing their names it all came back. Those were some great Browns teams back in the day. Sure would like to create some more memories, like those I have from the Jimmy Brown, Frank Ryan, Gary Collins era. What a difference it was being a Browns fan then vs now. Certainly one of the reasons I remain a Browns fan is the memory of those powerhouse teams from the sixties, when I fell in love with football and the Browns. The Bernie years brought back that glimmer, but high points have been hard to come by since. I will never forgive Belichek for cutting Bernie, while we held first place and our back up QB was in the hospital. Belichek will go down as one of the NFL's greatest coaches, but he wasn't one then. The good news is he learned. That's good because we have rookie a rookie coach now, and I, for one hope he too learns and grows. Thanks again Bluez, and Go Browns!
Dead horse beating time. If Manziel is going to cost us the same whether we keep him or cut him, Cut Him! I know it's financially not a penalty to keep him, but IMO it is a HUGE penalty in the locker room. How do you keep reminding the players, who you are asking to "play like a Brown", to put up with a daily reminder of how you (management) will tolerate the biggest slacker, because you are unwilling to admit you F'd up? Not a good message, and It may not be a certainty that Johnny is a complete waste as a Professional, but I'm betting he's as likely or possibly more likely to continue down his own party path, rather than grow up and suddenly become a "student of the game", than Gordon was. Given that he's not "on probation", what would stop him? Only Johnny can stop himself from fulfilling his shallow pursuit of attention, money and fame for just being Johnny. The money's gone, Slam, let it go, and let the reminder of that failure disappear from the facility, so it doesn't poison any of the incoming talent. Does it surprise anyone that Gordon found his party mate in Manziel? What if our first round draft choice at QB wasn't an idiot, might we still have Gordon "on probation" vs bye bye? That's what I'm talking about. Manziel is gong down, and he will take others with him, so let him go, wish him well, buy him a drink and show him the way to Texas.
Because you don't give up on a player after only one season...pretty simple, IMHO. Give the team leaders a responsibility to make him understand.
You mean like Trent Richardson? Okay. He lasted a little more than one season. I don't know, KD. If, in fact, the locker was divided last year concerning JM (and I suspect it was), it certainly wasn't after they witnessed JM's lack of preparation translate directly to his on field performance. I can see Pettine using this to reinforce his "Play Like a Brown" mantra. ie: Don't prepare and play like crap you WILL flatten your ass on the pine. Further . . . if the Browns don't take the financial hit to whack JM, that means there's mo money in till to pay the players that want to succeed. Keeping him is a Win Win.
If you can get a first round draft pick out of him, then I am all for it...hell I'd even take a 2nd or 3rd... But to just want him cut because you don't like his attitude, well, that is financially irresponsible, imho. Even TRich got into his second season before being traded.... Who knows, maybe Manziel keeps his nose clean, they bring in someone to beat him out, yet he looks good in preseason. THEN you might actually have a market for him when another team's QB goes down in preseason. I know it is a short period of time, but he went to Miami the week the players left the facilities, came back to Cleveland for his treatment, then he went the following week AFTER that treatment was over for the week, he went to Aspen for the weekend...He was confirmed to return to Cleveland the following week for treatment and I haven't heard anything since... He is a partier and annoyingly irresponsible, imho, but that doesn't justify cutting him before he reaches 365 days on the team... Here, I agree 100%...their IS a penalty, the difference is about $4M being accelerated into 2015 salary cap.
Lym , Ken and Irish I am like a teeter totter here about Johnny. As I've said before I was excited as hell that we got him. As I said on an earlier thread he played the NFL and the Browns (HASLAM) fell for it. He makes $1.6m and that's cheap considering an NFL contract. Now with all the reports coming out about his partying, teammates not liking him and then coming out and laying an egg I am not impressed at all. All 3 rookie QB's Bortels, Bridgewater and Carr out played him on worse teams. You don't hear negative chit about those other 3. Just the worst of the 3, Manziel! That's what I'm talking about when I say this team needs to change the losing culture. Manziel right now can't beat out a journeyman QB, didn't know the playbook and is adding to why this team has a losing culture! I already said a thousand times I wanted Carr with our 26th pick. Fellas we would of been better off staying where we were and drafting him. So I guess what I'm saying is if we can find a trade partner then off he goes. He has shown me personally that he doesn't want to be great. He know longer has to use daddy's money. Thanks to Haslam he now has his own. I think admitting your mistake for the greater good of the team has to be done here. Why cut him and it will cost you even more money. Try to trade him instead. Sign a veteran and draft a QB. The other alternative is sitting around paying him and hope to God he doesn't turn into a bust pick like he looks now. I would try to trade him and bite the bullet. This team is already a laughing stock thanks to him and Gordon anyway. Show the other players and the league that this team is not running like business as usual.
Just read the missing pieces article on ESPN. First off, the Browns ranking 7th is surprising, but in a good way ( I thought Irish was posting). l tend to agree that as a whole we actually have a pretty strong talent base. As we all know, only too well, not having a Top flite QB is the single most glaring hole. That is the most difficult hole to fill, which makes it the top priority, but as Lym and others have suggested: this isn't the year we will find him, so on to other positions. WR: Taylor Gabriel and Andrew Hawkins were ranked as "good" whereas Austin was "average" and Cameron Jordan was rated Bad. Both RBs were ranked bad, Thomas and Bitonio were the two lone "elites", while Mack, Greco and Shwartz all ranked average. Defensively: no "elite" with Williams, Dansby, Whitner, and Gipson were "good". Haden was "average" (compared to what). The rest of the D was average with the exception of Rubin who came up "bad". According to the PFF article, those teams are all capable to competing for the Super Bowl in the year ahead. What? Really? I'm an optimist, but WTF......
Let me ask you this, Els . . . If you were the owner or GM of another team, would you trade for Johnny (and his contract) at this point in time? Me neither.
Rankings done by national media outlets....... BS mostly, especially for a team like the Browns, who no one who isn't local doesn't watch without a gun to their head, so God knows what they are using for evaluation. I would expect their rankings on the top teams to be more accurate, because they would see more of them and have a broader audience. I do believe we have a strong talent base, with D backfield at the top of the list, O line and linebacking falling in the middle, but with question marks on D line, Recieving, and the RBs being unproven, but I'd rank as at least average. Going forward offensively, given we are not going to have an "elite" QB, I would expect Pettine & Co to focus on running the ball, so picking up a lineman for right side is critical, and IMO, we need to have a deep threat at WR. He doesn't have to be a top ten guy, but he has to be able to take the lid off the opponents D, so they can't crowd the line all day, thus cripple our RBs. We have seen Browns offenses built on the "short passing game", and it is too easily defeated if you can't get some spacing by making them defend the top end of the D. Gabriel & Benjamin have the speed, but both are part timers, so Ds only have to worry when they come on the field, we need to make one of them or our draft choice be the one that makes them backpedal. TE is nothing special in the recieving area, but could be considered "adequate". The problem is with mediocre QB play we really need something better at TE than adequate If we had an average QB last year how many games would we have won? How far from playoff bound are we? Not that far in number of holes, but miles away because the biggest hole cannot be filled this year. Does that doom us to less wins than last year? I'm not convinced of that, given that our D grew to be quite tough, as the season wore on, and with some help up front, I could see us reducing the avg pts given up per game by 4 or 5 pts, so the O need only hit a 21 pt average to be a winner. Not super bowl ready, but playoffs? Yeah why not.
Another player listed in this article...under bad.... Brian Hoyer That may just be why they were NOT a Super Bowl contender...
