I just find it a tad fishy that we'd offer Cameron $6-7mill for a player who can't stay healthy and who seemed to be a concussion magnet this last season. Throw in the fact that the team didn't bother drafting a WR with full knowledge before the 2014 draft that Gordon was going to suffer a lengthy suspension and were happy to start the season with a rag-tag collection of players at WR. I'm just not buying it (the $6-7mill offer that is). That and I can't find any other source that corroborates the story.
Yahoo Sports just reported that the Rams are interested in trading for Nick Foles. If that's who the Browns want they better get on the ball.
Nick Foles or Sam Bradford, who would you guys want and what would you give up for Foles? Bradford would be a cap casualty if they trade for Foles and would probably vault to the top of the available free agent QB market... Due to his injury history, Bradford will probably command somewhere in the $9-10M per year range for 3 years, with injury clauses. Nick Foles on the other hand is a sticky situation in that he has only one year left on his contract..either would need a signed extension prior to trade, or the trade value diminishes a great deal...
Go with the Free Agent and save those damn draft picks. If Bradford gets cut, take a look at him. Got Sanchez to look at too. And possibly Hoyer. The pickin's are slim no matter who they look at.
Don't take this the wrong way Duff but based on your current situation with Manziel, lack of playmakers, 1st time OC, etc. the Browns are not an attractive place for a free agent QB. I think you have to consider trading if the opportunity presents itself and even then you will probably have to overpay for a contract extension to get the deal done. If there's one positive, you have the cap room to front load a deal in the event the gamble doesn't pay off. That way it doesn't hurt you for years to come. Until their is some stability in Cleveland it's going to be hard to bring big-time players in without overpaying. That's what they did with Kruger, Whitner and Dansby and it turned out to be a good move. They were big expenditures in their first few years but now they are reasonably paid. So it can work.
Quite honestly I wouldn't want either of them for the very reasons you outlined in your post. I hate to keep banging this drum but (I'm going to do it anyway) . . . It's high time the Browns STOP reaching for a quarterback when there aren't any really there. All that does is prevent them from improving other aspects of the team only to repeat the same QB reach shortly down the road. We've seen it happen all too often. The definition of insanity is to repeat the same action over and over and expect different results.
Does that apply to posts too? If so, by your own admissions you are insane. Not that there's anything wrong with that..........
@kendawg.... *SORRY* *DONT_KNOW* I don't think there is a market for Manziel...The ONE exception would be Jerry Jones ego. He might send a 3rd rounder our way for the chance to redeem the born and bred Texan. Anything below a 4th rounder, and we are better off keeping him and hoping for an awakening.
Does any one think Hoyer signe wiith Cleveland, if Johnny is still there? Does anyone think Johnny is worth having in any capacity other than "professional party planner"? I am not a contract guy, does he continue to be paid whether we keep him or not? Does he cintinue to be paid if he subsequently signe with another team? Not that I'm anxious to be rid of him........... At least with Gordon, I could accept that his talent was worth sitting on him for a while, but with Johnny, I agree with whoever posted "he fleeced us", "we were suckers". all too true, but lets take the lesson, learn and do the locker room a favor and end the pain, send the message "we F'd up, this is not who the Browns are" like I've said, New owner = mistakes, new HC = mistakes. I just want them to learn, recommit to each other and move on together, unified, smarter, and better equipped for their second year drafting, coaching, and handling personnel.
Question. With Gordon out, what do we think of Austin's future with the BR talent wise, but volatile and unpredictable. Will he accept not being a top ten guy when the team he is on just isn't a big time passing team? The other guys are "good" not great, and that's OK at the right price, and I don't know if any of them would accept what a fair price is IMO. Personally I like Austin for his professionalism, and believe we need that element as we develop a young corps of guys. Hey it's 2 days of snow and house arrest, gotta talk about something.
Never claimed to be sane, KD. Its just that it gets harder and harder to post wearing one of these . . . (Queue Duff to post something snarky about how I type)
If we trade Manziel, the new team takes over his contract.. Otherwise, it is completely guaranteed money. Currently Manziel counts $1,874,681 against the 2015 salary cap, and a baby sitter needed If cut, that would escalate to $6,498,851, with nothing but the headlines and some jerseys sold to show for it.
I'm actually in Lyman's corner concerning the "lather, rinse, repeat" approach at QB. I see your point but disagree. If they are going after a free agent it will wind up a bidding war with a few other teams like STL, TENN, and HOU. They are gonna overpay for signing a QB regardless of whether they sign a FA or trade for Foles and agree on an over-priced contract extension with him. The difference therein is the draft pick/s traded away for Foles, who is no guarantee either. Thus, if they do go the "need to acquire another QB" route, overpay for a FA, keep the damn draft picks and build the team up. A lot of holes and depth to fill this off-season. But as I said, eschew the "new" QB and bite the bullet on Manziel for another year. Maybe we find a good mid-round QB this year or go for broke next year and trade up. We shouldn't have to trade as far up next year if Manziel continues his current level of play. Hopefully Manziel pulls his head out of his rectum, gives up partying, an puts some effort into learning his job. I'm just not a fan of Mariota or Winston in the first round this year. And the FA list at QB is no better, more or less, than what we had in Hoyer.
I do. If Hoyer is approached that he WILL BE the starting QB unless JM unseats him, and he (BH) is convinced that JM can't do that based on this past year, then I believe Hoyer would be open to a contract extension. Obviously it also depends on the $$$ JM's initial contract was guaranteed for $7,998,596 of which has been paid $1,080,165. The difference between these two dollar amounts is $6,498,165 which happens to be his "dead money" for 2015. So, to answer your first question, if we were to just whack his ass, the Browns would still be required to dole out the $6.5M to him. To answer your second question, that would be dependent upon the details of the trade. Some team may want him if the Browns agreed to pay some or all of his guaranteed money. If he wasn't traded, simply cut, and signed with another team, then, I'm not sure if we continue to pay him but that $6.5M would still count against our cap.
Irish my man, I dig your optimism bro! I think it was Lym that asked why are we surprised that this happened? Also I agree with what Bluez said about bringing in guy's with bad work ethics whether drafting or FA. Last year was a great year as for as I'm concerned. It was a great year to start building a solidly good team here in Cleveland. But just like what Top Dawg said instead of us continuing our chats about the off season and what we want to add to this team we are here talking about Gordon's suspension, and the big one, is Manziel mature enough or good enough to lead this team forward? He is right these 2 jerk offs are embarrassing this organization. From every report us fans get it is not good news about either one of them. Fellas, these are CANCERS! A team this fragile with no leadership can't continue to operate this way. To me that's our biggest problem. NO LEADERSHIP! Irish it was you and I that chatted a little bit about this. I think when you need a position like offensive line you should look for a veteran. Especially on this team. I would rather bring in a guy like Bulaga, Carpenter and Iupoti to teach this young team how to win and how to become professionals. Besides Thomas we have a very young and talented line and we have some young and talented RB's. All those guy's come from winning teams that know what it takes to win. We did that with Whitner and Dansby on defense. Plus those guy's are young enough to grow with this team and create a winning culture. I don't know about the rest of you but we are desperate need of a QB! JM is young and immature but there is still time for him to grow out of it. Will he? None of us know but he is cap friendly. If the right trade partner comes along I would have to consider it. 1 thing is for sure. He right now is NOT ready to be our starting QB. So the million dollar question is WHO THEN? Foles to me is head and shoulders above Bradford and not as injury beat up. Foles is 6-6 230lbs. The Eagles are trying to stack up picks to grab Kelly's QB Mariota. I think that's a no brainer. We have all seen the FA list of QB's. I think we have came up with Moore, Sanchez, Locker and I have seen Mallett. Then of course there is Hoyer. The other question is. Is Foles better than those QB's? Then what will it take to get him. Foles is young what 24-26 years old. Will it take a 2nd rd pick? 1st and a 3rd, what? The most important position besides O-line to me is QB. We have a chit load of money and an extra pick in the 1st rd. If we make a trade for Foles then there is no need for Johnny Football. Could we throw in JM on a trade? He is a spread offense QB. That's what the Eagles run. We trade for Foles, sign another vet for the cheap and keep Shaw. In that case you just got rid of your 2 biggest ego's and problems.
Watching Dr. Phil with the daughters during dinner Channel 3 news had a commercial with Josh Gordon in it that said " Are the Browns finally thinking of parting ways with Josh Gordon?" next on sports with Jim Donovan. I think we are going to find out sooner than later.
