I hope both Farmer & Haslam have learned there lessons ..will Haslam give the go ahead to trade Manziel if he gets a offer ? or will he be hard headed and try to save face thinking that Manziel will all of a sudden apply himself . even if he does his skill set is ...lacking for the pro game .I am being nice here ..really I am :|
I pulled whats left of my hair out after having all 4 grandkids Sat afternoon / night ..not really my grandkids but its a package deal when you move someone in with you that has them . ..two of them starting calling me pappy paw .okay that will work..now behave ya little chits !
Alot that I could agree with in there but Manziel doesn't have Wilson's arm and I doubt he has his brains. Russell is proof that the game is played from the neck up. That's a gift, it shouldn't be confused with "veteran experience" because if there's anything Ben Roethlisberger has taught me it's that experience doesn't always lead to smart football. I believe it's a talent that you have or don't have.
SB Nation this morning has an article about the draft involving our Brownies. The topic was that the Browns could trade our 2 #1 picks ,#12 & #19, to the Titans for the 2nd pick and take Mariota. They said that Tenn. really likes Mettenberger and with those 2 picks would take OLB Beasley at #12 and at #19 RT Clemmings out of Pitt. Now I would have a problem with that. If that is where they think these players would end up in the draft then don't we need an OLB and RT? I would be happy if that's what Farmer did with our 1st rd. It would be better than last years bust picks. Both of these players would start next year. It also stated that last year Farmer really liked Mariota. It sounds like the Titans are going to let Locker roll in FA. If they like Mettenberger then why would they draft Mariota? We would give them 2 starters for 1 that doesn't play under center in a spread offense. This team needs to many positions to be trading for another spread offense QB. I would rather sign a FA QB then take one in the middle rds of the draft. This move wouldn't surprise me though. It's the non drafting Cleveland Browns we are talking about. But I would rather have 2 starters than 1 you don't know is going to play.
Irish, I love the optimism, and agree that we "could" win a Super Bowl with this "team", with only a few changes. The big one is the QB (no surprise there), but beyond that the concept of becoming the Seahawks is achievable. Where that goes off the rails is at the level above the field, the coaching staff, and mgt. We are dealing with rookies at both levels in Haslam and Pettine (OK Slam is in year 2), but you get my point. The Seahawks, on the other hand, have one of the oldest, most experieced and accomplished coaches in the league. It makes a difference. I like Pettine, but I believe he made some mistakes, and hope that he, as well as Haxlam, benefit from those mistakes and get better at their jobs. For all of his "play like a Brown" philosophy, there were cracks in the foundation, and while some of them came from character issues with individuals, a coach has to "learn" how to get the best from those guys too. I believe there was more to it than just a couple of guys, like I have poster earlier. Some of it was how they treated individuals. A good point was made in an earlier post: "how do you think Gordon is going to react to being suspended for the final game, when the move can easily be seen as one that was made to punish him for that game and for his status going forward". Now many may say "he deserved it", and maybe so, but if you are looking to have him be a part of the solution going forward, it sends the opposite message. Thsi is some of what I am rreferring to, punishing players opeinly, rather than something that can stay in the clubhouse, and not humiliate them. I am not defending the players who were the target of these moves, just questioning the punishment, in terms of making it a public whipping, rather than doing something internally, to get the message across. By doing suspensions, or making statements about a player not practicing well, inviting the media to constantly question the player, which is publicly humiliating. Don't like it, and also think it has proven to be ineffective, since none of those guys ever seemed to truly get back to performing like a Brown. That is in the coadhing level, and IMO fails to promote unity, by showing all the players, you will publicly humiliate them and thus devalue them. I just think they need to find better ways to get their message across. It has to be team first. I get that, and I believe that is what they want the message to be, but they have to find ways to deliver that message that actually help the team, rather than simply punish the player. Then we can start talking about "team". Thoughts?
The Morning Kickoff ? 2014 in review: One in a periodic series reviewing the Browns? season of 7-9 and setting up their 2015 offseason of business. Position: Wide receiver. Players under contract (through year): Phil Bates (2015), Travis Benjamin (2016), Kevin Cone (2015), Taylor Gabriel (2016), Josh Gordon (2015), Andrew Hawkins (2017), Rodney Smith (2015). Players not under contract: Miles Austin, Marlon Moore. Snaps played out of 1,050 total: Hawkins, 647; Gabriel, 610; Austin, 535; Benjamin, 383; Gordon, 233; Smith, 14; Moore, 12; Bates, 0; Cone, 0. Games started: Hawkins, 15; Austin, 11; Gordon, 5; Gabriel, 2. Analysis: For 10 games, the Browns were over-performing with a rotation of Austin, Hawkins, Gabriel and Benjamin. Nothing fantastic, but the production was exceeding expectations. Once Gordon was reinstated from his 10-game suspension, the chemistry of the unit with quarterback Brian Hoyer changed for the worse. Hoyer felt pressure to incorporate Gordon immediately. After an 8-catch, 120-yard game in Atlanta, Gordon?s production dropped off precipitously and Hoyer?s overall game regressed. Before Gordon?s reinstatement, Hawkins averaged 4.5 catches per game; 3.0 after. Gabriel averaged 2.9 catches before Gordon, 1.2 after. Austin?s kidney injury in Game 12 further exacerbated Hoyer?s demise. Hoyer had 9 TDs v. 5 interceptions before Gordon, 1 v. 8 after. GM Ray Farmer?s insistence in not addressing the position in the draft resulted in a season-long search for bigger receivers. Those efforts brought to the roster prospects such as Bates, (6-2, 220), Cone (6-2, 215) and Smith (6-5, 220). Position: Tight end. Players under contract (through year): Gary Barnidge (2015), Jim Dray (2016). Players not under contract: Jordan Cameron. Snaps played out of 1,050 total: Dray, 598; Cameron, 475; Barnidge, 358. Games started: Cameron, 9; Dray, 8; Barnidge, 2. Analysis: Cameron missed six games with shoulder and concussion injuries. When on the field, he was the most consistent play-maker in the passing game. His four receptions of 40 or more yards, including one for 81, upped his average yards per catch to 17.7 ? best among NFL tight ends with at least 20 catches. Cameron?s third concussion in three years, however, is likely to result in the Browns letting him walk in free agency. Dray and Barnidge both had moments of glory with clutch catches and are dependable combination (catch and block) tight ends, but neither has the big-play game of Cameron.
I just read on CBS that Chip Kelly is trying to position the Eagles to move up for Matiota. Unless they make a Redskins type deal I don't see how they could get it done unless........... it involves the only team in the first with 2 picks, yes our Cleveland Browns. Man I love this time of the NFL off season. Yesterday it was the Browns trading 2 picks for Mariota, today its Chip Kelly and the Eagles positioning for Mariota. Here's my take on Mariota. The only 2 whole games of him I watched was the FSU & OSU games. Heres some of the things I noticed.... 1. He can scramble and run the football. 2. He has good enough size and arm strength to be a good NFL QB. 3. He plays in the spread offense and not under center 4. Plays in that spread option offense like OSU 5. OSU with Washington, Bennett and Bosa have 3 1st rd d-lineman who gave him fits. I don't think we are in position to trade 2 top 20 picks for this kid. Which brings me to Foles and Sanchez. 2 names that have been mentioned on here. Sanchez is a free agent. Foles is under contract. We need a veteran QB. 1st do you guy's like Foles and what would you give them for him? He is better than what we have on this team now. Plus we could give them a pick for more ammo for Mariota. I wouldn't give them a 1st rd pick. I probably wouldn't give them a 2nd either. But I would think of a 3rd pick. We have discussed using a 3rd/4th rd pick on a QB anyway. What do you guy's think about Foles in a some kind of trade.
I am OK with getting Foles, but at a price. Foles is unproven IMO, and it's not like he's a grizzled vet, with a resume. I just don't see how we get Foles without surrendering too much, because Philly needs a lot to have a shot at their guy. Sanchez? I don't like it, but it isn't the worst move we could make. He has a spotty record, and has never been considered a great teammate. I just don't think he's the guy to mentor johnny. He has had his own immaturity issues, and head scratching moments that indicate "he doesn't get it". As a place holder, he would be OK, but not a guy I want any new QB prospect to learn under. I am not a supporter of giving away the farm to get Marriota either. Build a strong "team" then pick up a QB when the oppty presents itself. I know it means another year of mediocre football, at best, but mortgaging our future to take a swing at a low outside fastball, only doubles our problems, that were born when we took Johnny.
KD, I'm with you on building the team outside of QB. That's why I don't want to trade 2 picks for an unknown spread offense QB in Mariota. I'm not sold on Manziel. Matter of fact I don't think the Browns are either. That doesn't mean he won't learn and grow, though. We can speculate all day who we think the Browns will or should take. Look at last year's picks. None of us on here expected the Browns to trade down for another pick and take Gilbert. None of us really know. After reading that article by SB nation it had the Titans taking Beasley at 12 and Clemmings at 19. If the Browns do that I would be very happy. After reading that about the Eagles wanting to trade up for Mariota I went on their thread. I think it was Tim that wrote on there that a team has to draft talent then draft need/want or something like that. I agree with that. I have been saying that about this team for 15 years. Talent. I think you go about that by drafting where your talent is weak or no talent at that position. So after really thinking about that I guess that's what Farmer did last year. I just think that Watkins/Evans has more talent than Gilbert at their positions. Then he went after a future QB. Another position of need. I liked the Manziel pick when it happened. But now I don't know if his off the field life style will allow him to reach his full capability. Just like Gordon. Then we went on to draft Bitonio. GREAT, GREAT, GREAT pick. Another need and so on. He had the right plan just not the right execution. We have wrote on here that RT,WR,OLB,ILB,DT,QB,TE & DE are our positions of need. With the money and picks we have we should be able to address most of those needs. I would address those needs by biggest needs and cost. Like Irish and I have discussed. It may be cheaper to draft a RT than it is to sign one and so on. But if we do walk out of the 1st rd with OLB's Beasley/Thompson/Ray at #12 then RT's Peat/Collins/Clemmings at 19 or vice versa I would chit! That's adding talent at positions of need. Young, cheap and talented is the trifecta in my eyes. Plus that would continue to add depth which as we found out this year is really needed. Come on Farmer put a plan together and EXECUTE that plan. It's almost time, baby! GO BROWNS!
Els, be careful what you read and report back here on buddy...That "article" on SB Nation was a mock draft for entertainment purposes only, not really information. You will see 2,000 mock drafts between now and April, take them with a grain of salt. None of them are done with insider knowledge of what the teams are really discussing, but rather something the author of the Mock will do to get people talking. Hindsight is 20/20...THIS TIME last year most "experts" said Gilbert was the top of the class at CB. The "TALENT" was there...his head obviously isn't. I would love to get Ray at #12, but I don't think he will be there...Kendawg has talked me out of Beasley, I am in agreement we need bigger bodies in the AFC North at OLB, I will wait until the 2nd round for guys like Markus Golden, Alvin Dupree or Nate Orchard. Although I would consider Fowler at #19. I would MUCH rather get Danny Shelton and a OT, than a pass rusher in the first..I would REALLY like one of these big WRs, but it looks like the Browns may be making a play for Chris Carter's kid that played in the CFL last year. Sounds like they are in negotiations, but I don't think CFL players can sign until February. He is a bigger body receiver, but he comes with baggage..not sure that is what this team needs right now.
Excellent Lym!! The only thumbs down I give is to you giving that blow hard Hoge and sense of credit on anything...
BREAKING NEWS John Defilippo X-Oakland Raiders QB coach has been hired as the new Browns Offensive Coordinator... Thoughts?? He helped Derek Carr this past season, otherwise, I'm not sure of his qualifications...He is from Youngstown Ohio... He is only 36 years old He has only been back in the NFL since 2012 (3 years for those that need to know in years), overall he has spent 8 years in the NFL, 6 of which were as a QB coach, the other two an offensive quality control coach. 2014 He was Derek Carr's rookie QB coach 2009 He was Mark Sanchez' rookie QB coach 2007 He was JaMarcus Russell's rookie QB coach, continued into 2008 2012 Carson Palmer 2013 the QB carousel of Matt Flynn, Marr McGloin and Terrell Pryor Boy, I hope he came with a book full of ideas that knocked Farmer's socks off... *SCRATCH*
Geez. Not exactly a ringing endorsement with JaMarcus "The Carcass" Russell on his resume. But I guess when there is virtually nobody left to hire.......... I'm thinking that this is the book he brought to Farmer......
I threw him in there just for you, Irish !!! P.S. But, based on what we know now, you have to admit he wasn't wrong.
Thanks again, Lyman. Good read. One of these days, God willing, you'll have something nice/upbeat to write about this train wreck of a team/Front Ofiice.
Help me here, Duff . . . What's not upbeat about an offense that has Thomas, Bitonio, Mack, Lupati and Bulaga up front and West / Crowell and Kuhn behind whomever is under center? *PARDON* Even if Gordon really wants to sell cars for a living; Austin, Hawkins, Gabriel and someone that Irish can find in the 3rd round combined with a 55% completion rate QB would have to somewhat keep the other guy's defense honest, eh?
If we end up with Bulaga and Iupati in free agency, I will jump up and down for joy....Don't see them doing it, but that would be pretty damn awesome.. As for the WR in the 3rd round? I'm afraid it may be Duron Carter from Montreal Alouettes instead of a rookie...If Chris Carter moves to Cleveland to kick his arse in line? Ok, then I would go for it... It is also being reported on ESPN Cleveland that the Browns may be looking at Carson Palmer if the Cardinals do indeed cut him for cap reasons, like is expected. Again, a 16 game Carson Palmer would be welcome. That is a long shot at this point of his career...
