I know I'm coming in on the tail end of this, but what exactly did Farmer do that was so wrong? Els you ask for talent: Gilbert - talented. Manziel - talented. Bitonio - talented. West - talented. He brouhgt talent to the team. The breakdown came with performance, and to me that calls into question, how they were handled. I am not forgiving any of them for their role in failing to take training seriously, or coaching, but with 4 "guys" (include Gordon), not even approaching their potential, you have to question the staff's approach.. This is not to say Pettine and or his staff have to go. What I am pointing out is that this was a first year HC and staff, who inevitably were bound to make mistakes. I think one of the things they have to do is consider how their handling of all 4 of those players failed to make the difference they wanted to make. I don't know what they did or didn't do, but I am pretty sure they will not repeat the approach they took this year. Now maybe we just got 3 bad apples this year who will never amount to anything, but that seems unlikely. Of the draft picks, I have the most reservations about Johnny, which admitedly I didn't like on draft day. It isn't Johnny who I blame, though, this is one pick that to me reeks of flash over substance, and that truly bothers me. Farmer, Haslan, Pettine, I don't know who was champoining that pick, but it was then and seems now to be a mistake. I just don't see Farmer's first draft as a poor one, judgementally with the exception of Manziel, and that mistake is making our search for an OC very difficult. This team in the broad sense is more talented than any Browns team I've seen since the rebirth. I don't buy that is our problem with getting OC candidates, but who wants to come here with a virtual lock to fail in year one, on a team that historically has changed OC every year?
Gilbert. OK he never won the starting job in Cleveland, and it was in large measure his own fault. He came in and figured his incredible talent was all he needed. It wasn't,but......... By some quirk of fate, Cleveland became the land of defensive backs, making Gilbert earn his playing time. I believe he probably would have started on a lot of teams, even on the Browns if we weren't already so deep in cover guys. Generally a good thing for us, but for Gilbert, he wasn't allowed to play and learn. He had to win a spot for the oppty to play, and that meant practice, and listening to the coaches. Not his strong suit, but it isn't talent he lacks. To me, this creates trade oppty for the Browns. We don't need to keep all of them. Not saying Gilbert should be the one to go, just aknowleging this is an area of abundance where many teams are lacking, and could net us another player or a draft position more favorable, without weakining the roster significantly. A couple years ago, he would have started, Diva or not, so his not starting goes beyond his readiness. It also speaks the depth we have developed at the position. I hope he can win a starting job next year, but once agaon I worry about how he was handled, and how he feels about being a Brown going forward.
Irish as difficult and gloomy as things look right now. I'm sure you've got a closet full of shirts like this. And you'll have the band wagon fired up come next fall
lets see how this plays out in the coming weeks . with the coaching search . free agency & the draft . I hope we can get a compentent play caller under contract for three years .I hope they want to stay here for three years . the QB situation should be at the top of the list . we have to either sign or trade for a veteran QB . I hate to say what we should have could have done damn Carr was there for the taking but our IDIOT MEDDLESOME OWNER had to have the little weasel .I hope he learned his lesson and keeps his ass in his office draft night . last years first round isn't looking to good here unless Dilbert grows up .I hate to think that Farmer blew two first round picks that were handed to him *WALL* I get frustrated after every season since we came back in 99 ...this team makes me drink *CRAZY*
Ken Farmer drafted three kuckle heads in West , Manziel & Gilbert ..we are in no postsion to be taking guys with questionable work ethics or character . I still have hopes that both West & Gilbert mature ..Manziel I wrote off two years ago not at all surprised by his actions . it will only get worse with him .Manziel talented ?? for college ball sure as hell not for the NFL .even if he applies himself his foot work mechanics are sixth round at best .. Merril Hoge was right on ..sadly we are stuck with him .
Well there's your silver lining...... It's made you a better drinker. and you have lots of company, falling down drunk company, but company Bluez.
Gilbert isn't talented he sat the bench the whole year! We could of had a sure fire good starter in Watkins/Evans. Unless that dude can beat out Williams an undrafted player then he is a BUST #8 pick. I liked JM out of college. But it is as plain as day he is not ready to be an NFL QB. But there was Carr. Who is an NFL QB. Both Watkins and Carr start for their teams. Both the players we picked ride the pine! So I question how talented they are. Drafting these 2 bums in the first rd could of set us back another 3 years. Right now what are we looking for? A QB and another WR! We could of had them last year. 2 good ones! That would of gave us Watkins/Evans, Carr, Bitonio and West. That's drafting. I guess we will agree to disagree. But I think he missed 2 picks in the 1st rd. To tell you the truth I have no confidence in him this 1st rd. I do know this bro, if he doesn't draft 2 starters this 1st rd then I WANT HIM FIRED! He cant have 4 top 25 picks and not draft a starter.
Els, I will disagree totally on Gilbert's talent. He has great tools, his issue is commitment to his craft, and I still believe he would have been a starter on many teams, just not on this year's Browns, who are extraordinarily deep with good cover guys.' I really don't see that as arguable. Whether he's a bust is another matter. He may be a bust, but it isn't because Farmer failed to get a guy with talent. Gilbert's failure to get on the field, is mostly his fault for not responding to coaching, and not commiting himself to get better. Secondarily, I think the coaching staff has to accept some blame for not finding a way to get him to listen and to work at it. Manziel, well as I said before I wasn't a fan of drafting him from the beginning, and if you compare Gilbert's readiness to Manziel, Gilbert looks like Peyton Manning. My point is IMO one of the guys we got in round 1, belongs in the NFL, based on talent, if he will apply himself, the other I doubt will survive his rookie contract, but then I don't beliver he was Farmer's choice, rather he was Haslam's choice, so I find the criticism of Farmer's draft questionable. Look I would love to have all 4 players you point to, but show me any team that went 4 for 4. You may prove to be right about both guys being busts, maybe. I sincerely hope you aren't right, and Gilbert and Manziel become solid contributors for years to come (makes sign of the cross, tosses salt over shoulder, clicks heels together 3 times). Accusing Farmer of not drafting "talented" players...... I just don't see that argument. Gilbert was a recognized leading talent as a cover guy in last year's draft.
Bluez, it appears you are correct. We drafted 3 "knuckleheads" last year. I would certainly agree we got three guys who didn't seem to understand the level of commitment, and focus needed to succeed in the NFL. I am in the same place you are on Manziel. I just never believed Manziel's "talents" had a place in the NFL. The other two guys are not lacking in talent, and having 3 guys who "don't get it" makes me question the coaching, support, or mentoring that was or wasn't used, and whether the staff thinks they can do a better job of handling and developing guys who need to be motivated, going forward. I like Pettine, but what the hell do I know.... nothing! I just believe as a rookie staff, I expect they didn't do everything perfectly, and that perhaps this is an area "of opportunity" for next year. If we expect to have every player commited at the same level, we are fooling ourselves, and not every player responds to the same inputs. The best coaches find ways to coach all of their players, fairly, but not identically. I'm pretty sure our coaches aren't named Lombardi, so they can improve. I fully expect Pettine & co, will refine their approach to expand their ability to reach some of the guys like Gilver, Gordon, and West. If just strikes me as odd that we would end up with 3 rookies in the same boat, and let's not forget the Tate dismissal and the Gordon sleepwalking. It all points to an inflexible approach that alienated rather than motivated. I know I am talking out my ---, and have nothing but the lackluster performances and seemingly antagonistic attitudes, to go on, but it seems to me a place to look to do better for both players and coaches, and team mates.
The Browns will be without a third offensive coach from the 2014 staff, as the team has parted ways with wide receivers coach Mike McDaniel, according to a source. McDaniel has a previous relationship with former Browns offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan, who resigned last week after one season in Cleveland. Shanahan brought McDaniel with him to Cleveland and could hire him in his next stop, which might be as Dan Quinn's coordinator wherever the Seahawks coach gets a head-coaching gig. McDaniel did a nice job with Andrew Hawkins (63 catches, 824 yards) and undrafted rookie Taylor Gabriel (36 catches, 621 yards) but Josh Gordon wasn't able to assimilate into the Browns' offense upon return from suspension, catching 24 passes with no touchdowns. Last week, the Browns moved on from quarterbacks coach Dowell Loggains. The Browns are interviewing several offensive coordinator candidates this week, including former Bears coach Marc Trestman, Bills assistant Jim Hostler and Jets running backs coach Anthony Lynn.
Duff thats unfortunate. I thought the WRs and the DBs made the most progress this season, and it seems like a lot of years since we've had WRs who actually helped the QB, by making the catches they should, and even snagging qujite a few that were errant. I hope whoever we get as an OC, has a good WR guy he can bring in. I think we have a pretty good corps, but a lot hinges on getting a guy who can connect with Gordon, and continue the development of the the rest of the band of brothers. One of the weaknesses over the years was teaching the guys how to gain positional advantage over DBs, by boxing out, giving yourself the oppty to make the catch shielding the DB from being able to make a play. Hope that;s in the new WRs arsenal of coaching skills. We will see.
More coaches gone while the Bears hire John Fox as their new HC. Why do you guy's think we can't get coaches like that? This team is DYSFUNCTIONAL!
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/01/johnny_manziel_and_josh_gordon_1.html So, Manziel and Gordon spent some time in Colorado. I have two wagers to make for any takers. 1. One, or both will be "randomly"selected for a wizz quiz (urinalysis) 2. When they pop positive, they will claim that they thought that since pot was legal in that state, they thought it was ok. Anyone want to bet a 6-pack on either?
I went to the pub last night and saw a fat chick dancing on a table. I said, "Nice legs." The girl giggled and said, "Do you really think so."I said, "Definitely! Most tables would have collapsed by now."
I was telling a girl in the pub about my ability to guess what day a woman was born just by feeling her boobs. "Really" she said, "Go on then...try." After about thirty seconds of fondling she began to lose patience and said, "Come on, what day was I born?" I said, "Yesterday."
