Another season coming to an end and the Cleveland Browns fans are once again saddled with that sick feeling that they root for a franchise that is a joke... That's because they do, and this franchise is. I really thought they finally had this thing turned around when they were 6-3 and feeling great about a nationally televised beatdown of the Bengals in the Queen city. But since then it has been a steep and rapid descent into the abyss, culminating in a humiliating 30-0 shutout at home by those exact same Bengals...Hopefully getting beat yesterday by a QB with a broken back will wake some people the hell up in that front office. Is this franchise ever going to get off the mat? Doesn't look like it. We took advantage of an easy schedule to inflate the W column a little bit this year, but this is still the same chit....and it's getting really old. It's unnacceptable and quite frankly inexcusable the way this team is playing football over these last 5 weeks. What the phuque happened? It's like they are back to preseason game 1. Mistake after mistake after mistake, and half of them mental! Never in my life have I seen a team that shoots themselves in the foot with such regularity. They can't get out of their own way at this point. It's embarrassing being a Browns fan....It really is.
Not to belittle Manziel, but just wondering if the coaching staff figured out he's nowhere near ready yet (or ever will be) and staged his injury. A simple "Oh no! I think I pulled my hamstring" to get Hoyer back on the field in hopes that they might appease him in hopes to re-sign him by getting him back in and possibly starting our last game? Begs the question, does Manziel have what it takes to lead this team or not? Or is Hoyer still (and I can't believe I'm saying this) a "better" option? In Manziel's almost game and a half of play, he (and the rest of the team) has looked just as bad if not worse than Hoyer's last few starts. Too early for me to say Manziel is just learning on the job or a bust, but it seems we've been down this road one too many times before. Either way, it still looks as if we're on track to draft yet another QB and possibly waste a handful of picks to do it, rather than using those high round picks to build up the team and waiting to see if we have our QB in Manziel or not. *WALL*
Top Dawg I wrote when this team was 6-3 that I would be very happy at just 7-9. Some on here said they wouldn't be being at 6-3 already. I agree that this team is a year in, year out loser and 4 win football team for over a decade! But why? DRAFTING! Mingo, Richardson, Weeden and you can throw in Gilbert and Manziel too if you like. Those are 1st rd bust man! Early picks bro that cant start on a 4 win football team! Look at just last year. The Browns were a 4 win team with 2 1st rd picks. We needed a future QB and a WR. Even before any of us knew Gordon was a POTHEAD again. So they trade down, pick up a backup DB then trade up to take Manziel! WHY NOT JUST F$%$#@# draft Watkins a F$#@#$# starter then draft Carr another backup QB! You wouldn't have JM but you would have a good young WR. The best WR coming out! TALENT! When that trade was made with Watkins that should of told us Browns fans WAIT TILL NEXT YEAR AGAIN! And you know what WE WILL! Alwasy do! Us Browns fans are BITCHES! Every last one of us. We support the worst organization in the NFL! EVERY YEAR, MAN! What do we get! Saying 7-9 is a great year! Is it really? And I'll tell you something else Pettine sucks! No One else wanted this job and we all know it! This guy cant get his team ready to play week in and week out. We saw that all year long. Coming out of college I was a JM fan! Watching his laziness and how teammates don't respect him I'm starting to wonder! This team needs a QB and right now in my eyes WE DONT HAVE ONE! I would rather have Locker and Mallett. They are free agents and wont cost us 2 1st rd picks to get. Let Rubin go for 8.5m and sign Locker or Mallett instead! Both of those young men are 25-27 years old. Let JM learn and keep his mouth shout! I want his arse early to every meeting. If not trade him now! Get what you can for him! Same with Gordon! Get the Pothead out of here! He is not a winner! He is good but there is a difference in that and being a winner. Jerry Rice was a winner, Chris Carter was good! Winners rise to the occasion, losers are in it for them selves. I'll tell you about another loser! Thats Joe Thomas! He is not a team guy! He is a me guy he just knows how to act! How many playoff games has he lead us too. 0! But he is an 8 time pro bowler. I know this that once Mack went down where was our fearless LT? Getting beat like a rag doll. The leader on that line is Mack NOT Joe Thomas! He like Gordon is good at what he does but how many playoff wins has JT lead too. ZERO! This off season the Browns have to sign a veteran QB! But knowing the Browns draft history they will trade 2 picks for Mariota and he will have no one to throw the ball too, right side of line will suck again and we will be happy with yet another 6-10 season! BEING A BROWNS FAN F$%#$#@ SUCKS!
That is a ridiculous statement. What grounds do you have for it? Speak for yourself. You've said some pretty far out stuff on here, but this one may take the cake. So...... Go root for the Seahawks. No, I'm not being a smart alec. I'm not making fun. I'm quite serious. http://mudncleats.com/forumlist/viewforum.php?id=38
That's quite the head scratcher of a statement. I get that you're a bit pizzed off, Els. And yes, this team has completely and utterly collapsed due to quite a few things i.e. QB play, lots of injuries, switching game plans for each QB, etc. But man, step away from the edge before you fall. You want them to get rid of anybody and everybody who is actually worth re-signing for a couple of no better than Hoyer scrubs at QB? Guys who don't know Shanny's system and will require some time to learn it? How does that help or make it any better than the situation they're in now? The best two free agent QB's available will be Sanchez and Hoyer. Not exactly what teams want to pursue for a "franchise QB" in free agency. As bad as it seems, it's the impatience and desire to win now at all costs that has led to our team's frequent turnover at QB (albeit we haven't exactly had any quality prospects at this position) and in the front office and coaching staff. How many times do we need to start over? Can't say I'm too pleased or that I'm not pizzed off either. But two games doesn't show anything of what Manziel can or can't do. He needs a healthy team for one thing not to mention a better supporting cast. Save those early round draft picks and build up the team and give Manziel time to develop if he can.
I don't think they faked the injury, I think he probably did tweak it a little. They may have seized the opportunity to get him off of the field. I am not a Manziel fan, that's established. I also do not think that we have anything resembling grounds to label him a bust. He's a d-bag kid that has gotten by on athletic ability his whole life, and is now being challenged with the mental side of his sport. Hopefully he at least understands that now, and goes into the off season an works his tail off. Hopefully we don't lose Shanny (like him or not) so that he knows what to study this off season, and can be prepared for camp, and the Pre-season. Hopefully he can get together with his receivers throughout the spring and summer and play catch with them, play basketball with them, and get to know them. Whatever helps. As for this draft, I would like to see us build a team that can support a QB. If Manziel cannot perform next season, then we draft the QB. I will agree that we need to bring back Hoyer or another vet to be an insurance policy and a mentor. As much as I thought what Jerry did in Dallas with Dez was silly, it obviously worked. Maybe Johnny needs a babysitter.
Thanks for the reply Dvl. I truly hope we don't grab another QB this year in the draft. Okay, how about just not in the first round via trading away this year's and future draft picks. Although it is more feasible to do with the rookie salary cap, I just cringe to think we may do the same as Washington did and wind up with a lemon and no draft picks for the next 2-3 years. Now that would really set us up for failure and another change at head coach in the next 2-3 years as well.
(Kneels down and clasps hands together reverantly with eyes turned skyward) Please let Connor Shaw turn out to be the savior of our franchise if Johnny Football isn't the Chosen One. I promise to stop defiling myself....................as often as I usually do. Amen
I absolutely agree, I want to use these picks this year to shore up our OL, DL and make sure that we get the players in place to suit the coaches game plans. FAR too many times we have jerked our crazy knees and fired a coach before he could even get his roster the way he needed it. Look at what we did to Chud. Despicable. Also, we will take a 4-3 roster, hire a 3-4 coach and then can him when he can't turn a 4-3 DE into an all world 4-3 OLB. Sometimes we act like the fanbase that trades in their car the first time the blinkers don't work, and wonder why we're upside down on our payments 4 cars in 4 years later. Then on top of it the bank (aka Coaching Pool) no longer trusts us, and we have to go to the low end lenders (Guys no one has ever heard of are suddenly HC).
How many playoffs has the great Joe Thomas lead us too? NONE! Without Alex Mack how does the line look with JT! Terrible! But lets keep trading down so we can draft backups with our 1st 2 1st rd picks! And people are actually wonder why we F%$#$%# Suck? People on here need to get a clue! Haslam has it the easiest of any business owner in downtown Cleveland! From his product we except mediocrity! The NFL played a big joke on all us Browns fans! They treated us just like Bitches! Take the money and run with those ratings! No good coach is wanting to come here! We don't need a coach anyway or GM the owner makes all the calls in the draft room and on the field! Lets pass on the best WR in the draft to take a backup CB! Thats smart! Hey we've only won 4 games 13/15 years we have been back!We dont need talent! We need future players! I told everyone on here that 1 of those 2 1st rd picks have to be a starter and neither is! Right now every sports talk show is talking about signing a QB in free agency! They are talking about trading our 1st 2 picks to move up and take Mariota! Didn't we trade picks last year to move up for a QB? Either he is not who I and a lot of us thought he was and Lym's right or the team around him sucks! I think it's a little of both. We are finding out right now that when you have a chance to SUCK FOR LUCK you F$#%$#@ do it! The Colts did and they are in the playoffs with the best record in their division. All winning 4 games did was knock us out of the Luck pick! BAD MISTAKE! There is no Luck in this draft! This teams next year needs to find a good starting QB, RT, WR, K and TE! That's 5 spots I see us needing on offense. On defense we need an OLB ( Mingo sucks), ILB, D-Line (DT/DE) doesn't matter. That's 3 spots on defense! 8 players for us to be a serious playoff contender. We can't keep trading picks around to draft backups! We are not that good and haven't been for 25 years for Gosh sakes! I writing my opinion to why this collapsed this season. So I'm telling you why I think it did! No TALENT! Look at our draft this year. An undrafted rookie running back has out played your 1st and 2nd overall picks! NOT GOOD! Let me draft the 1st rd this year. I will walk out of there with 2 starters! This can't continue to happen! Don't you guy's understand that the reason why we have sucked for so long! We can't draft! I'm saying right now that I don't want to trade down for Mariota! I want a veteran QB! Locker or Mallett! That's who I want! Young with good arms. That way if JM sucks then we don't have to. If teams want him then we can trade him. WE HAVE TO FIND A F$%#$%# QB! Its been 25 years since we have and I think it's about time we do! I say of coarse we keep Thomas he will be gone in 3/4 years anyway. What a waste of a HOF career! But we should trade Gordon! 2nd,3rd I dont care. Farmer seems to do better with those picks anyway!
It's just SO damn frustrating...Ya can't wear any Browns gear in a public setting without 50 jackasses coming up and giving ya the Johnny Manziel "money' gesture....I'm already phuquin sick of him and I'm a huge fan of the guy! lol! Only in Cleveland can things go so badly, so freakin quickly....
Dawg I'm frustrated too man! But we should be asking ourselves why have we been bad for so long? Why no matter what we do, who we hire and who we draft it's the same outcome? I have some easy answers to that may man. Remember I'm a 310 Union Laborer and we work on buildings in downtown Cleveland. Including Stadiums. Let me tell you this. I have worked on that stadium 4 out of the past 5 years doing concrete restoration and I'm telling you IT'S A CHIT HOLE! I have talked to guys that built it and they said Al Lerner wanted it up as soon as possible to start playing football. That the concrete didn't have enough time to bond and it's crumbling as we speak. It wasn't to make us Browns fans happy but to start making money. That's why there is NO RETRACTABLE DOME on it! Not because he preferred the outdoor elements! He wanted it up as soon as possible to get the turn styles turning to make money. Here in a couple more years they are going to need to build another stadium. So enters the vote for sin tax dollars to help build stadiums! Trust me we have meeting that talk about that type of chit all the time. Why? Because if they are going to build a new stadium, casino, condo's and whatever 310 Laborers will be there helping to build it. We are the biggest trade union in Ohio, 4th biggest laborers union in the country. I handed out flyers on how the sin tax will create jobs and help build the city so people should vote yes on it. Whether you like it or not everything has to do with money and politics! That's just one of the things I've learned joining a construction union. No matter if your Republican, Democrat or Independent it doesn't matter. But anyway Ownership has been 1 of the big reasons why we have sucked for so long. 2. After ownership you have STABILITY! There hasn't been any type of STABILITY with the Browns since they have been back. At least before we had MODELL! Like him or hate him he had stability with in this organization. We are all Browns fans because of him. Money and Politics both had a part in him moving this team! I don't know about any of you but I sure wish Art was still our owner until he died. He is a better owner than all 3 of these last arse clowns put together! So Stability is #2 3. Because we have had bad ownership and no stability in this organization that leads to CHANGES! Changes in Ownership, Front Offices, Coaches which leads to changes in schemes, QB and how you draft. CHANGES! We have had over 4/5 front offices, 5 HC and 20 QB's in 15 years! WTF! NO STABILITY FELLAS! That has to stop! I don't know if this group is the answer but if it's not then we need to find a group real quick,lol! 4. BAD DRAFTING- This team has blown more 1st rd picks than any other team I know of. That I feel is because of Ownership,No Stability and Changes! OWNERSHIP- Not hiring the right guys to draft good talent. H&H were absolutely terrible! I could of done better than them along with most of you. Scouts- these guys must of fell off apple carts or something. Which will lead to GM's making bad picks. No Stability- When you hire the wrong guy's that cant do the job then you are always hiring and firing. Which leads to changes which leads to the present day CLEVELAND BROWNS! There I got all of that out. lol! I know fellas this is Pettine's 1st year but I don't think he is the answer we are looking for. Haslam is making the calls and that's plain as day. Farmer I'm going to give him 2 more years to build a team. I like somethings he has done like Bitonio, West, Kirsey, Crowell, Dansby, Whitner and some others. But he dropped the ball in the 1st rd of the draft. Knowing that he lost Gordon then he should of drafted a WR whether it was Watkins, Mathews, Benjamin, Lee whoever. I don't disagree with JM. But I would of rather had Watkins and Carr! Gilbert right now looks like a bust. On a 4 win football team you simply can't have that! JM has not looked good and now he is hurt. Hoyer is the best QB on the roster right now, gawd help us! But he is a free agent. We need a young QB. Instead of using any draft picks on a QB I would rather sign one. The question should be.... Is Locker of Mallett better right now than Manziel? And Do you want to wait and see if JM can develop into a good starting QB? I say YES! Locker and Mallett are better than Manziel! He will still be on the roster and is 4/5 years younger than both. This fan base is tired! How long will have to wait? We have been waiting over a decade! its time to start winning NOW! Does Manziel give the best chance? I say no not now! I say bring in one of those free agents. They are better than Hoyer anyway so it will be an upgrade. Bring in a RT, WR,OLB,ILB,D-line and K. That's drafting and FA. We have what 30-40 million to spend. None of our picks our bonus babies. Farmer has to get it done! Go Browns!!!!
No Duff its been blind owners giving piece of chit Gm's the authority to run the team, draft who they want only to be out of the NFL 3 years later! How many 1st rd picks has that happened to? 12 years out of 15! I say that's why we suck. Name another team that has blown 2 1st rd picks like Richardson and Weeden? Only the Cleveland Browns. Let's look at last years 1st rd? Right now both Gilbert and Manziel look like bust! Neither one of these 1st rd picks can start on a 4 win football team? Gotta wonder who in the F$%# is scouting these players? At least if it was Watkins and JM or Carr you would have at least one starter. Not the Browns! There is already talk in the national media that we will either have to trade those 2 1st rd picks for another QB(Mariota) or go after Locker or Mallett in free agency!
You have said something that we agree on, so we'll start there. Stability. That is something that few of us understand because we have not seen it since the early 90s. We agree. Lerner the first, was not a terrible owner, but Lerner the second was just trying to carry out daddy's dreams. Haslam is a clueless grizzly bear. Again, we agree. This leads to literally ALL of our problems. Once again, we agree. You say this, but your posts of late have been all about canning anyone and everyone, I don't understand. Here is where I think you make your finest point, but I think you miss the WHY of the whole thing. I have posed this many times, but no one has yet stepped up to address it. When is the last time we hired a guy to a high position that had already succeeded at that position? When is the last time we landed even a recycled HC? GM? President? Why? Why do you all suppose that no one wants this job? So, we hire all these guys that have never lead their own programs, and we do it en mass. We hire a 1st time Pres, who hires a 1st time HC, who hand picks his own 1st time GM, and we have a hand full of 1st time coordinators, and then we can the whole bunch before they can figure it out. When you hire people that have never done the job you hire them for, you HAVE to expect growing pains. If you expect different, you are delusional, or a Browns' fan. Now let's look at this season. We have a first time owner, First time General Manager, First time HC (that I had honestly never heard of), a first time DC (never heard of) with an OC that I had actually heard of (shocker). This was farmers VERY FIRST DRAFT AS GM. Name me one GM, just one, that never missed on a guy. This is Pettine's first team as HC. You say that there is not enough talent on this roster, but the defensive accomplishments (he is a D coach) are impressive except for a terrible run D, but we have a TON of injuries on the DL. I want to see what he can do with a roster that he helps build. This isn't Madden where just because his position says DT or OLB that he can play any type of scheme. Bottom Line. No one wants this job, and no one will until we show as an organization that a candidate will be given an honest to God fair shot. If anyone disagrees with that, I would love to hear your argument.
I feel your pain Els. Like a wounded animal. I don't believe in Johnny, I'm unsure of Pettine, I don't know the level of involvement of Haslam. One thing I do know: Change has never been a strategy for success. I may not be convinced, but I am perfectly prepared to give Pettine another 2 years, give Manziel a year at the helm (if he can earn it), keep Gordon at the right price, Joe stays, Hoyer stays as backup, Cameron stays at a price, and we don't even flirt with a QB in round 1, or 2. Get one late as a developmentsl guy, to be the emergincy guy, and focus your talent hunt of the Line Of Scrimmage. Don't mistake that as an endorsement of the team / staff, but just a recognition that stability is a better teacher than change, and class is in session. The coaches, the players, the front office, all need to take notes and learn to do things better. I am tired of conversations about "culture", screw that. Al Davis was right: Just Win Baby", the culture will follow. There is work to be done, some upgrades needed, but mostly we need to get teh best out of the talent we have. We didn't do that this year. Biggest, most obvious, least arguable "miss" by this regime: can you get a place kicker. then can someone accept a punt and at least threaten to run with it. Not complex, strategic stuff like the QB position, just a disimissive shrug and toatl failure. What kind of message does that send. You want to bench West because he isn't practicing "like a Brown", how about the front office and coaching staff take care of thier chit, cause if that's "acting like Brown" then West is right on course. Not happy with a lot of what I saw, and yes talent has a role, but I don't buy it as even 50% of the issue. I do believe an elite coach would have gotten this team as consitituted to 10 wins. Now Pettine isn't an elite coach, but he should get the chance to learn and grow. If he dosn't........... weill I'm not a fan of change, but lets save that for 2016
All season we?ve been asking whether the Browns would start Brian Hoyer or Johnny Manziel. At the end of the season, the answer may be neither. Undrafted rookie quarterback Connor Shaw, a member of the practice squad, may be called up to the active roster and forced to start Sunday?s season finale against the Ravens. Mary Kay Cabot of Cleveland.com reports that Manziel?s hamstring injury, which forced him out of Sunday?s game, and an injury to Hoyer?s shoulder suffered after Manziel went out, could leave Shaw as the only option. A three-year starter at South Carolina, Shaw was signed by the Browns in May and had some good performances in the preseason this year. Perhaps he can have another good performance in the season finale, and add a new element to the Browns? inevitable quarterback controversy in 2015.
I agree that no team drafts worse than the Cleveland Browns. But honestly guys, it's been that way as long as I've been a fan. It doesn't matter which owner. Modell, Lerner and now Haslam. This franchise just can't draft....Back in the mid 80's the Browns did a great job of bringing in talent out of the USFL, after they went belly up, and it actually almost got them to a Super Bowl. Credit to Shottenhiemer and company on that, but even they never could draft worth a crap out of the collegiate level. They got Kosar only because he circumvented a way to get himself into a supplemental draft by graduating early.... 1978...I think that was the last good Browns draft. I was 10. They got Clay Mathews and Ozzie Newsome...Not even sure if it was a great draft. They had a great first round.... I can't explain it...I know they have had qualified personnel in the front office's over the years...But the track record has been mostly awful since Paul Brown left town...Sure they have hit on a few, but I think the bad picks have out numbered the good picks by a chit load.... Obviously since 1999 it's been an absolute debacle in Cleveland in regards to building a football team we can all be proud of. Who knows what the hell is going on up there? It's a comedy of errors year after year after year. ...At least Modell's Browns were not a laughing stock franchise. The Browns didn't win any titles, but everybody knew they were a tough out. Cleveland Stadium was a brutal place on opposing QB's....All I'm saying is, they were never a cellar dwellar or an after thought....Other teams knew that when they had to deal with the Browns, it was going to be a dog fight. (pun intended) I know Haslam is new. I realize this is a complete re-start (again)....but at the same time, early impressions are not favorable...In fact, all indications are, this is the same shit, we just have different names in the front office...
To add insult to injury! I just read on Yahoo sports that The Browns have reached out to Rex Grossman, offered him $49,000 to play on Sunday against the Ravens and.... HE TURNED THEM DOWN!!!!!! WAH, WAH! The more things change the more they stay the same! I think it's time to change the uniforms! Keep the colors and no emblem but this organization needs a change of scenery in a major way. Its been 15 years of mediocrity as a whole! I know some of you older guy's on here want to keep the tradition, keep the memories but the Browns that we all grew up watching are dead and gone! At this point I don't think EVER coming back! Paul Brown is not walking through that door with Lou Groza, Gene Hickerson, Jim Brown, Paul Warfield and Bobby Mitchell any time soon. It's time to move on and put the old dawg asleep and out of his misery!
