Many of you are saying pretty much what my own thoughts are. Bluez and I are on the same page pretty much verbatim, so I won't elaborate on that again. I will say Tim said one thing that I've said ever since the Browns got their fifth victory...amazing improvement. We're at 7-6, and have given away two and maybe three games. We couldn't really say that in previous seasons at this point in time. I'm not satisfied by any stretch, and believe Pettine has to start Manziell. As Bluez put it, I too have supported Hoyer as the QB because I didn't want Johnny Punkazz in the first place, and don't want him now. However, Hoyer ain't getting it done. All in all...I wish I was a kid again watching Jim Brown tear up the NFL opposition every week. Ahhhhh, those were the days. Rok
I understand the optimism over this, but it's easy to take it at face value and not look at the situation or the personnel that John faced in that drive and gloss over the second drive. There are possibly multiple reasons why the coaching staff is steadfast in keeping Hoyer as the starter. The fact that John has not outright taken this job off of Hoyer, from the preseason to the situation that the Browns have now, should be the question, not why has Pettine and company not put him in.
That pretty much says the same thing, doesn't it? I don't care who the personnel was at the time...I would like to see a chart of who he went against, stating he wasn't going against starters 3:00 minutes into the 4th qtr and only up by 17 points, with the new talked about quarterback entering the game. Are you actually suggesting Doug Marrone entered the 4th quarter, saw Johnny Manziel and decided to pull his starters, because he was comfortable? All I know is that the tackles made on that drive were by Corey Graham, DaNorris Searcy, Preston Brown, Stefan Charles and Aaron Williams..Kyle Williams was on him during the "fumble/incomplete pass"... ALL starting defensive backs, same unit that was in against Hoyer and at least 90% of the plays consistent through the Bills schedule. If you are suggesting Marrone pulled his players, and that was the CAUSE of the Browns pulling to within 10 points with just under 9 minutes to play...Then maybe their front office should be looking into his decision making. Is that what you are claiming? If so, please show me the personnel changes as you must have access to that. edit: The fact they have reiterated for the past 6 weeks, it has more to do with what Hoyer IS doing rather than what Johnhy ISN'T doing is what draws me to certain conclusions BTW..They have publicly stated time and again, Manziel is progressing exactly the way they expected him to...I know they need to say certain things publicly, but it goes AGAINST what you are suggesting...and the one drive out of 2 this season, suggests they were accurate in what they reported in his progress. Wouldn't you agree?
Whats up guys its been a while. This was the worst loss since Kelly Holcomb VS steelers Debacle. Im at a loss for words. A real Head coach does not lose that Game. Make all the excuses for Pettine you want he blew it. Anyone happy with 7-6 is blowing smoke up their own ass. Too much to say and I hate Typing. Johnny in we win. Fact Bluez is Pettine. Fact ::::He hates Manziel Petting Plays not to Lose and he loses Fact Why can't Cleveland find a coach That knows how to put a Dagger in a team they are totally Dominating Denver cut a very good kicker, Cleveland keeps The worst Kicker of all-time year after year. Cundiff is an unbelievable joke Hoyer cried when Manziel scored his TD. Thats not a team Player How many open receivers missed does it take to get to the middle of a tootsie pop?????? Has Pettine ever said the only reason Hoyer scored a TD is because they were playing soft Defense??? Anyone with half a brain can see Hoyer is done. What has Manziel done during the season to be called an Immature Azzhole?????? Just because we have won 7 whole games this year doesn't mean we can win 7 or more next year. Im so sick of hearing what an improvement we've made. Im so sick of the chit. Seriously what has Hoyer done in the last 5 games???? he's had his chance to shine and now its to late for anything. Who gives a chit what Manziel can do now its all for nothing. Fukk next year I don't give two chits who is QB just win the Fukkin game. Playoffs would have been fun Besides Yesterday how have all u guys been??
The bright side of Sundays Hoyer the Destroyer of Dreams 14-31 Hey not to bad thats almost 50% 140 yards passing Hey thats almost half of 300 not to shabby 0 Tds 2 Ints not to bad he only threw 2 more int's then TDS our defense ONLY had 2 more Touchdowns then the Offense. thats pretty good Stick with the guy that got you here. If the offense is Knocking keep on a Rockin
Like I said Irish, on Manziel's first drive the starting d-line was not on the field as a unit. They were discussing it on ESPN, basically saying that it is tough to gauge that drive because of the rush attempts for John against the second string DL. They were back on the field in full for the second drive. I never said it was the back-up defense, only the DL. When I have more time later today I will give you the exact DL configuration for the first drive. No, I would not. There is nothing from that drive that shows me that John has learned how to read a defense, make the correct changes at the line, an protect the ball for 4 quarters and play a consistent game. Simply put, it is too small of a sample size to know if what they are saying is coach speak or the truth. Putting John in could win games, or lose them. Nobody knows. And by the way, I believe they should start Manziel next week. Has nothing to do with Pettine's decisions last week though. Two separate issues.
No poopy Sherlock... This is double talk, pretty obvious it is a small sample size. Pretty obvious, we don't know what he would do for 4 quarters, they have only given him 2 series in 13 games... AS for showing you "There is nothing from that drive that shows me that John has learned how to read a defense, make the correct changes at the line, an protect the ball" He DID read a defense, he DID change a play at the line that went for over 24 yards down field...He went 3 of 4 for 54 yards and scored the TD with his feet...what more do you want him to show you on this particular drive? He showed touch on a short dump pass, accuracy on a pass 18 yards down field in stride to gain another 6 yards on the pass and a laser arm across the middle on another. Did you actually watch this game, or are you just barking up my tree because you are bored today?
First of all, nobody calls him John....Second, what are you talking about Tim? How is Johnny supposed to show you all that in one drive? He went 80 yards against a damn good defense, but that isn't really the point.....Somewhere along the line Hoyer became the second coming of Derek Anderson...He makes one good pass for every 5 awful ones....He's NOT playing good enough football to be a starter in the NFL....You are right, we don't know what we have with Johnny Manziel, but I think we all should have a pretty good idea of what Brian Hoyer brings. He's a quality back-up in this league...So why the hell is Pettine letting the season slip away with BH's atrocious play? Don't ya at least have to TRY SOMETHING? The fact that we have a potentially huge "spark" just sitting there on the bench each week makes this coaching staff look foolish IMO.....
THAT is exactly the point TD...THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU... It really has nothing to do with what Manziel might or might not do at this point. It is mostly about what Hoyer has done (or more the lack thereof). If not Johnny, then who? If you can point to another player that I don't know about, by all means...but the one thing I absolutely am certain about is that Hoyer needs to be replaced! ONE TD IN THE LAST 28 DRIVES WHEN HOYER IS LEADING THIS OFFENSE, 3 TDs in the last 48 drives, add to that only one TD PASS in the last 45 drives... Manziel may have just gotten lucky, but his recent history is 2 drives ONE TD, made by Manziel himself... Not sure what the argument is here...Please enlighten me some more...
Irish asked me a yes or no question. I answered no and gave my why. As for the rest of it, I'm fine with disagreeing Irish, but I would prefer to have it remain a football conversation rather than you getting all riled up over nothing. There is no double talk on my end, but feel free to read into it however you wish. I watched some of the game along with a handful of others, my original comment was not directed at anyone in particular. I stand by what I said.
OK so you strenuously disagree with Pettine on the QB. Noted. Beyond that, what has he done to earn a " thank you and farewell"? He is a defensive minded coach, so is it any surprise he is risk averse in his offensive choices? He is a rookie HC, and has been pressured all year to put in the Media Magnet. Maybe he's become a little defensive about it. Not something he should be proud of, and has to ingnore, but he's human too. Keep the coach. Start Johnny, and let's all see why you were so reluctant, or why you were so wrong. You do have a pretty good backup. Looking beyond the spectacular play by Hoyer: a little help from the WRs would have been nice, maybe "run, run, pass" wasn't the best strategy just because we had a lead (one bought and paid for by the D), Maybe we could have made that tackle at the 1 yd line, and sent Luck and co. home losers. Maybe Gordon could have "run" his deep route, and been the difference maker for Cleveland instead of against Cleveland. None of that forgives or ignores Hoyer's play, but this was "the drive" all over again. Maybe we don't get a Pass Interference penalty, maybe Gordon catches the pass for the first down. Maybe, maybe, marbe........... Feels a lot like too many seasons gone by, too familiar, and neraly forgotten 3 weeks ago. Crap !!!!
It was just reported AGAIN! on 92.3 that Brian Hoyer is NOT coming back to the Cleveland Browns next season! This is the 4th sports news source that I heard this from already this week. ESPN. COM, Yahoo sports, CBS now Cleveland sports talk 92.3. After his interview after the game where he threw his team under the bus I say see you later backup! I along with all of you knew Hoyer was done! But all I keep hearing out of this scrubs mouth is excuses about his team mates. All he said was he missed 1 throw. What a sorry arse DOUCHE! I wonder if Luck would of connected on those WIDE OPEN WR's FOR TOUCHDOWN'S! This dude is a loser! Losers breed losers! GET HIM OUT OF HERE! I don't even like roman burgers anymore because of this scrub! I'm telling you all I don't want him on the field anymore! There is no reason for it! If he plays I wont watch! There is no future with this scrub! JOHNNY, JOHNNY, JOHNNY! At least with him the offense knows what it feels like to score a TD! Hoyer, what a scrub!!!
To be fair, Tim is right about the d-line on Manziel's TD drive. For whatever reason Mario Williams, Marcel Dareus and Kyle Williams all sat the entire drive and were replaced with Manny Lawson, Corbin Bryant and Stefan Charles. Mario and Kyle returned for the next series. Dareus did not.
Dareus was injured during the game, not too surprising that he wasn't out there....Anyway, forget the TD drive by Manziel. It was a nice drive, but obviously too small of a sample size to make an opinion of his readiness to lead the Browns.... ...This is about Brian Hoyer. He simply hasn't been good enough for about the last month. The Cleveland Browns organization needs to replace their starting QB. This notion should not really be that hard for typical football fans to fathom. If ever an offense needed a spark, it was the Browns yesterday. Pettine's admission that he never even considered replacing Hoyer with Manziel yesterday is an absolute head scratcher..Really? It's laughable, and disturbing all at once...Wth? .Pettine makes Marty Schottenheimer seem like a riverboat gambler....And I never saw a coach play it tighter to the vest than Marty...smh
I agree that Hoyer has sucked ass. I just don't agree that putting in Manziel this past week was the answer. This week, unless there is some issue regarding his attitude that we are unaware of, I believe you have to start him if you are serious about trying to develop him into a franchise quarterback.
Let me start by re-posting what I said immediately after the game was over: You know for a fact, Irish, that I respect your opinion probably more than others. But I trust Pettine's opinion and those of his staff more. To come out and say this; That is what you said that I found particularly wrong and uncalled for. Neither you or I or anyone else on an internet message board has a clue what goes on inside the walls at Berea or on the side line during a game. We are all rank amateurs. But the fact is he took a team that couldn't win more than 25% of their games to a record that is over .500 and is still playing meaningful football games in December. And he did it with what was perceived to be a receiving corp better suited to go against the likes of Heidleberg or Ohio Northern, with a "journeyman career backup QB with a bum knee", four (4) starters and three (3) backups on IR, countless players out for extended periods of time due to injury and a spectacular free agent RB bust. I've already said I have given up on Hoyer. He had his chance and blew it - big time. Pettine and his staff agreed to stay with Hoyer for the Colts game. I only surmised that he didn't pull him out of stubbornness. Maybe they had reason. We will most likely never know. And, for the record, if I were him and he IS planning to go with Manziel this coming week, I wouldn't announce it ahead of time. Make Cincinnati game plan for both.
Pettine was peppered with questions about Manziel's dedication and if he worked hard enough to warrant the promotion. BEREA, Ohio (AP) -- The switch at quarterback for the Browns appears inevitable this week. Johnny Football may be about to take over Cleveland's offense. After Brian Hoyer played poorly again in Sunday's loss to Indianapolis, Browns coach Mike Pettine seemed to be on the verge of giving rookie Johnny Manziel his first NFL start against Cincinnati. "I think it's natural to lean the other way, given the results," Pettine said Monday. "I still want to make sure we do our due diligence and talk to everybody involved." Pettine was unclear on if he had already decided to make the change and promote Manziel, the high-profile backup who came off the bench and replaced a struggling Hoyer in the fourth quarter two weeks ago in Buffalo. Pettine, who stuck with Hoyer last week because he had the Browns in the playoff mix, said he wants to meet with his coaching staff and general manager Ray Farmer before telling both quarterbacks and announcing who will face the Bengals. Pettine said the offensive problems in Sunday's game were deeper than the quarterback, but he called the Browns' passing attack "sub-standard." Pettine cited dropped passes, receivers running wrong routes and execution as factors but that Hoyer has to play better. "There are clearly some throws that he missed, but I think it was also exaggerated by how poorly we were in the pass game around him," Pettine said. "We always say it, `A quarterback is only as good as his supporting cast.' When the guys around him play well, Brian will play well. It's rare that there's a quarterback that can transcend his supporting cast. "We're in a results business. We've lost two in a row. We all know what the numbers have been in the pass game. For us to be successful, they need to improve." The Browns (7-6) blew a 14-point lead in the third quarter, when Hoyer and Cleveland's offense failed to get a first down in three straight series. Pettine said Manziel would "absolutely" be ready if called upon to make his first start. Pettine said nothing is giving him pause to go with the first-round pick. "I'll fall back on what I've said all along. We pull together the circumstances that we have, just like we did last week. Who gives us the best chance to win?" Pettine said. "That's the decision we go with. To this point, it's been Brian." Pettine was peppered with questions about Manziel's dedication and if he worked hard enough to warrant the promotion. Since he was drafted, there have been questions about Manziel's commitment, with much of the scrutiny stemming from off-the-field behavior. Manziel's penchant for partying and late nights became an issue a few weeks ago when he was involved in a 2:30 a.m. scuffle at a downtown hotel where he lives. On Sunday, Manziel didn't arrive at the stadium until shortly before 11 a.m. for a 1 p.m. kickoff. However, Pettine said Manziel was "on time" and he had no issues with Manziel attending a Cavaliers game last week when some felt he needed to have his nose in the playbook. Hoyer's freefall has been striking. He has thrown just one touchdown pass and eight interceptions in the past four games, a slide that has damaged the Browns' hopes of making the playoffs for the first time since 2002. "It's crazy how fast things change," said Hoyer, who is in the final year of his contract. "I feel like four or five weeks ago we're talking about contract talks and now we're talking about if I'm even going to be staying here. It's the furthest thing from my mind right now." Hoyer doesn't think he's playing any differently. He bemoaned missed opportunities against the Colts, especially on long passes in which he overthrew receivers Josh Gordon and Taylor Gabriel. Hoyer, too, says others need to play better around him. "Everybody's got to be able to step up and when you're not being perfect you need one guy to step up and make a big play and we didn't have that yesterday," he said. "We didn't have one play that just changed it all for us and when you're having a game where there's some inconsistencies, and not everybody's doing their job on every play, you need that one play or that one player to make a play and we didn't have it yesterday." NOTES: Browns S Tashaun Gipson has begun running and believes he'll play again this season after missing two games with a strained knee ligament. Gipson was leading the NFL in interceptions when he got hurt. ... Pettine said Hoyer's first interception on Sunday was because TE Jordan Cameron ran the wrong route. ... Pettine expects C Ryan Seymour to start for the second straight week. He made his starting debut against the Colts.
The Browns haven?t yet officially announced whether they will stick with incumbent quarterback Brian Hoyer or turn to rookie Johnny Manziel for Sunday?s game vs. Cincinnati. Either way, the matter doesn?t worry Bengals coach Marvin Lewis much. In an interview with 1530 AM in Cincinnati, Lewis was asked if the Browns? QB decision had any bearing on how the Bengals prepared for Cleveland. ?No, it doesn?t,? Lewis told the station, according to an audio clip shared by Nate Ulrich of the Akron Beacon Journal on Twitter. ?It doesn?t at all.? Added Lewis: ?You?ll get a little bit more movement if Manziel?s the quarterback, the thing that they did against Buffalo. But other than that, no, that doesn?t impact you at all. You gotta go defend the offense. You don?t defend the player.? Lewis paused, then added: ?Particularly a midget.? The audio clip then ended. The 6-foot Manziel is listed as two inches shorter than Hoyer, who has started every game for 7-6 Cleveland, including the Browns? November 6 win at Cincinnati. Manziel has appeared in three games, with his most extended action against the Bills in Week 13. While Lewis? remarks may be in jest, he might draw some criticism for his turn of phrase. According to Little People of America, which is billed as America?s biggest dwarfism support group, the term ?midget? is viewed by some as an insensitive phrase. The Bengals (8-4-1) hold a half-game lead in the AFC North over Baltimore and Pittsburgh (8-5).
TWO day's after yet another sorry arse performance by backup QB Brian Hoyer I still don't want him touching the field this year. If he plays this will tell me personally a couple of things. 1. The Browns don't want to win! They are happy with 7-9. They are happy with almost making the playoffs. 2. They are recruiting FA right now! This will show free agents that they will be fair to them. Why? The whole nation is watching this situation right now. It's a Johnny Football story! 3. They want to keep Hoyer! As I said I think he is a scrub. But he is a veteran and we are going to need one if Johnny takes over. I have 100x more confidence in him than Hoyer. Those 2 passes Hoyer missed are TD's with JM. PERIOD! I think I've been very positive this year with the Browns. I still believe we are heading in the right direction. Yes we need more help like the right side of the line, #2 WR maybe TED and now QB! On defense we need that young run stuffing ILB, DT and either DE or OLB. Our DB's are getting better every week and we seem to have depth there and kicker! NO MORE HOYER!!!! Send his arse back to michigan!
Just saw Manziel's reaction to one of Hoyer's missed throws for TD's on Sunday. Johnny looked at one of his teammates and said quote" I WOULD OF MADE THAT THROW!" and I totally agree with him! With OSU going to the NCAA playoffs, Cavs dominating like we all thought they would and the Indians making a great trade for Brandon Moss the Browns have to do the right thing here keep this rolling and bench Hoyer! It's decisions like this QB one that's kept us mediocre for so long. To quote Herm Edwards " YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME" Hoyer has proven he cant do that!
