I think he is so stubborn that he can't hand the reigns over to a young kid with WAY TOO MUCH confidence. I think he actually thinks he is HELPING Manziel by trying to instill humbleness in him...That is my thought on this whole ordeal. It has been reported, the team told Manziel not to go to the Cavs game Tuesday night, Johnny (knowing it is his day off) rebelled and went anyway...Hoyer is named starter next day. THEN, and this is something else I am perturbed over, Manziel in his immatureness handled it poorly and decided if they didn't want him to start, he would treat this like a week off and went out for his birthday on SATURDAY night, not a night early on Friday, but Saturday....the night before the game...then proceeded to get to the stadium at 11:00 PM, which is when they are required to be there. His stubborn ass is trying to make a point to the staff that they cannot dictate his personal life when off the clock...well it has influenced Pettine's decision making and WE THE FANS AND MANZIEL'S TEAMMATES AND PETTINE'S TEAM, is getting the blunt of this pissing match. The Browns could have made the playoffs if these two could co-exist in this environment. I blame both...HOWEVER, I blame Pettine more, because if Manziel can win this team games, I don't care if he goes out every damn night of the week. If he can work in that environment, then I don't care if he makes questionable social decisions as long as they are within the boundaries of the law and team rules. IF HE CAN WIN, HE NEEDS TO PLAY!!! THAT IS ALL THAT MATTERS!!! If you have to pacify your best players, PACIFY THEM!!! This isn't High School Football Pettine, learn your place and get this team ready to win games...Quit trying to show these grown men life lessons!!
I am so relieved to be surrounded by such a collection of brilliant football minds like we have in here. Its just a shame that that this group of gridiron academics hasn't been hired by some NFL franchise to immediately right everything wrong and lead that franchise to multiple, consecutive NFL Championships. Its mind boggling.
Enough with the sarcasm Lym, I'm pissed and you know it, if you are kicking the Dawg, please explain what I am saying that shouldn't be said?!
my biggest beef with Manziel is his attitude . he is immature .IMHO he will never dedicate himself to the pro game . this isn't college anymore where you can just wing it. in the NFL everybody is bigger faster smarter . you have as playbook for the first time in your life . how much time did you spend learning it ? he is entitled . he hasn't had to work for much in his life . if he fails I the NFL and I am ceartin he will mainly because of his immaturity . the circus follows him around . he loves the limelight flashing his money sign :! . the kid will flame out off the field before he flames out on it . he will be at his best when things break down and he can freelance . can he stay in the pocket and go through his progressions ? I have serious doubts he can do just that . Hoyer is done IMHO . its shame as I wanted him to be the QB . its not happening . see ya Brian . light me if you must it wont be the first nor the last time . I want a QB that is more traditional ..say Derek Carr who I really wanted this past draft . big strong stays in the pocket and has some mobility . he is not a statue and is MATURE . quit trying to revolutionise the qb postsion *WALL* . non of them have panned out yet . I don't think any well . we still have a winning record . we get the Bungles this Sunday for the last home game . we sweep them we can finish at least 500 ...helluva jump from the last few seasons of 4 wins . our future looks bright for a change . Duff set em up ..lets have one for the future . set back and enjoy the fact that we are playing meaningful football in December for the first time in 7 years . I know its a bit of a downer as most of were thinking wild card or division winner . this team isn't good enough yet . we are close and getting closer . Gordon check your attitude out also get your head in the game DIPCHIT ! We need you . show you want to play football . quit being lazy on your routes . fight for the *&^$ football . this season has flew by .
Lot of harsh words for a coach that has led a team that was supposed to have 4 wins to almost double that in his first season. Be careful what you wish for gentlemen, Manziel will be the starter for Cleveland at some point and he will be physically better than Hoyer. But that may be all, and it may not be enough for sustained, long term success. If I'm a Browns fan, I'm siding with the coach that has done more with less, not with the 'kid' who has instigated a pissing match instead of buckling down and doing whatever it takes to earn the starting job. If pride is an issue now, imagine how big a fucking problem it would be if Pettine simply said 'ok John, you don't have to earn it, just be you and we will hope that it's enough'. A lot of assumptions being made on what John is capable of based on one scoring drive against back-up d-linemen, not Buffalo's starting front.
I'm thinking we'll know this next game. It's reasonable to state that Hoyer is detrimental to the team at this point. They still have a shot at the playoffs mathematically. I would think, and probably I'm incorrect, but Pettine has to be thinking Hoyer will get us knocked out and based on his play of the last few weeks can't win out. I'm not laying the entire blame on Hoyer as we have injuries, etc. I now, at this time, concede Hoyer isn't the (and I hate this term) "Franchise QB" we hoped for. It is also reasonable to see what Manziel can do at this point. He still has a good bit of pressure on him with the playoffs still being a possibility. Hopefully Manziel can get a dose of the pressure and step up or at least give us 3 games worth of play to get an idea whether or not we'll be trading our two 1st round picks (plus maybe more) to scoot up and draft yet another "Franchise QB". Hoyer is not going to magically revert back to his performances in the first 5 or 6 games of the year. With the injuries, etc., maybe Manziel's added skills at running might get it done. Whether or not that's true.......well, we just need to find out now, don't we? I have to think that the coaches and locker room now see Hoyer's declining abilities to get it done at this stage. I would hope that they would make a change while we still have an outside shot because what we have now is definitely not working.
Hey Lyman, if you think Mike Pettine was wise to stick with Hoyer than that's up to you. Are we not allowed to voice our opinions of that decision? He stuck with Hoyer and it blew up in his face... One TD drive all day long, and it was mostly RB Isaiah Crowell..OneTD in Hoyer's last 21 drives....Wide open WR's being overthrown by ten yards. Mistake after mistake after mistake from the offense just ruining a spectacular defensive effort....It's kinda easy to criticize that IMO. Am I missing something? Is Mike Pettine some kind of NFL royalty that is beyond criticism? I mean Pettine is flat out begging for it at this point, and you don't have to be a "football genius" to figure that out....
Agreed Duff. I think it's about time to find out what we have in the Rookie QB. Whether Jf is or isn't what others think he is or can do. It's time to find out.
I have sided with the coach since January 23rd, 2014. I have had questions that I felt, I as a fan, could ask...But I have followed him throughout the process. I would love for you to show where that is different until today. I am speaking about ONE SOLITARY decision to go against his own mantra of playing the players that give this team the best chance to win. Hoyer, I have no doubt, fit that description on day one of the season and I said as much. I have been a person who believed he had limitations that would eventually catch up to him and have expressed my opinion on that as well. As long as it isn't costing your team wins, I stood by, This team has played 4 games that were more than just winnable, I feel they should have won...they have 1 win in that time period. That is where this questionable behavior comes into my complaining. All Hoyer needed to do was get a string of first downs...This was my complaint early in the year, that he cannot consistently get first downs. I am not talking about 80-90 yard TD drives completely on his shoulders. This team can sometimes win despite Hoyer, lately they have not been able to overcome his shortcomings and so it is time to throw the rookie in to see what he can do. It doesn't take a degree in rocket science to understand this. If Pettine cannot discern this for himself, than that draws some SERIOUS worries from me whether he is capable of coaching a PLAYOFF team. He has done an admirable job of coaching a team expected to win 4 games to currently 7 wins...But when the TOUGH decisions need to be made, then dammit, make them and move forward!! I am with TD, I am not assuming Manziel can do it...I personally have him evaluated much differently than you do, but I do want to find out one way or the other whether those skills are present...AND NO, I am not basing anything on one drive. The one drive showed the skills I based my original evaluation on. We have gone rounds on this subject...What I want to know for a certainty, are the skills on that one drive what makes up Johnny Manziel, in which case he can become a future franchise QB for the Browns and something we have not had in an EXTREMELY long time...or is the indecisive nature he showed on his second drive primarily what he is? If so, then we need to make plans for April 2015 and beyond to throw another chip in the crap shoot that is college QBs. Either way, Hoyer cannot do this job on a full time basis, so he is NOT the answer...move on and get this ship moving in a forward motion. Right now, we are all over board on offense treading water. Either way, Pettine is accountable for making the decision to do NOTHING when your QB is drowning and pulling everyone he can latch onto down with him... Throw this team a damn life preserver!!
I think he made the right descision myself . Hoyer is a veteran who is there everyday putting his time in . he talked with his staff the players & Farmer before making his choice . Hoyer deserved one more shot and he blew it . as much as it pains me to say I would start Manziel this Sunday . ..then again Hoyer has played very well against the Bengals *DONT_KNOW* Pettine is a rookie HC who has not been perfect but we need to stick with him and I hope his staff returns next season . at one point in wanted the DC gone . not so much now as this defense has been playing well lately . the only thing Manziel has manged to do is start arguments amongst this fan base like no other has . if he wasn't on the roster we wouldn't be having these discussions . we would find something else to bitch about I am sure .
The really sad thing for Browns fans that makes yesterday's loss extra painful is the fact that at the very end of the game, with less than a minute remaining, Hoyer made all the throws he needed to make for the Browns to pull out another miracle , only it was Josh Gordon that let us down...It was like salt in the wound. The only reason I'm not more upset about his huge drops in the final seconds is because I really don't have any confidence that our kicker could have made the winning 45 yard FG anyway....smh
I get what you are saying Irish, and your point is valid. All I am saying is that this team is much better than what most projected. That falls directly on Pettine. None of us know what is going on within team meetings and evaluations. It could be as simple as John not meeting up to expectations, not learning the playbook and keeping a cavalier attitude instead of taking a business approach.
Oh, I don't know TD. Stat-wise it appears Cundiff only misses from 44yds on in. Runs out door right after Bluez......... *REF*
btw...If ya want to hear others criticizing the Cleveland Browns' coach and QB, just turn on any sports channel on TV, or any sports radio station and listen to what every talking head in the world is saying.....Cause we gettin killed today my friends, and rightfully so I hate to say.....
TD, all kidding aside, I'm not taking what you say lightly. Just trying to inject a little levity on a crappy Monday morning after a miserable loss. We're all entitled to gripe and question. Thank goodness that we are civil about it and don't stir the pot up like Stopper did. Speaking of which, where is the little.....ahem.....pot-stirrer (nicest thing I could think of to say)? But the other point I'd like to make is this............ Isn't it much better to be griping about not winning when we're still possibly in the playoff hunt? Most of the time, it's about whether to keep coaches and the front office and who they need in the draft. And that's usually after Week 4 or 5!!!!!!!! So, yes, thanks for making some arguments and pointing out your views on how they should get the ship righted while there is still a slim chance and before we're forced to revert back to our usual talk about next year. P.S. These same sentiments go out to Irish too. It's nice to know there are still some exceptionally passionate fans here.
Duff, Nothing wrong with a little levity. Especially when I'm ranting or venting or whatever it's called...Bottom line is, I honestly think we are a much better team than the record. I've thought this the last two seasons. We have talent...I just feel like our coach needs to grow a pair. There's no reasonable excuse for us to have lost that game yesterday and I really feel like our coach's over conservative nature might have robbed the Browns fans of having a Merry "Browns" Christmas.... The season is too short. I know that we are close. I feel like Pettine is letting it slip away...IMO Hoyer should have been replaced as starter at least 2 weeks ago, and there were some other games earlier on that a case could have certainly been made for his benching.
I agree, it falls on Pettine, and the entire coaching staff, Ray Farmer who put the roster together, all the way to the top in Jimmy Haslem who decided he should fire a coach after one season, when he saw aspects in his decision making detrimental to winning football games. I agree Pettine has done a great job thus far in the year in nearly every aspect of being a NFL Head Coach. However, he has also preached (and backed up those words in 99% of all circumstances) best man to help this team win, will be on the field. This went right down to starting different RBs each week, even if one seemed to do well prior to the move. For the NOVICE spectator, I don't think there is any argument that Hoyer give's this team the best chance to win, at least not over the past 6 weeks. Once that aspect went out the door, Hoyer should become a backup, which is what his makeup is to begin with. I am not privy to practices, so I don't know what is going on behind closed doors. Maybe Manziel is so bad in practice the coaches cringe at the very thought of him entering a game...reports dispute this, as many have said the front office is split. Unfortunately they haven't been able to confirm which ones feel which way...What we do know is Farmer feels he is at the very least, the 2nd best option, otherwise he wouldn't make him available for the 45 man game day roster. And if he didn't feel he was a viable player, then Conner Shaw would be signed to the active roster..or another veteran signed to give them a viable option. So, we can surmise one of the people in the front office to believe Manziel is a viable option is Farmer. The other thing we know is that Pettine is on the other side of the fence, because he is the one that decides who is playing from the 45 players Farmer gives him on Sunday...He has not allowed him to play, so this defensive minded coach doesn't feel he should play...the question is why. That is what I wish I was privy to. If there is a valid answer to that question, I would be satisfied. What I saw instead, was Manziel FINALLY going into a game COLD and using the skills I evaluated him as having, leading an 80 yard TD drive. This is why I am as frustrated and boiling over as I am...
