Nice comments, Irish. I can come to terms with that assessment. I may not be as convinced as you are about Manziel, but you make a good case for his starting.
I know Duff, and believe it or not, I am not "convinced" as much as many of you think. Manziel is a rookie, so I am not convinced of anything. What I am is considerably excited over is what I have personally seen on film of the kid. For that, I want to know how he can grow as a professional. If he can tune the tools he has and quell the amateur tendencies that I have seen, he can be one of the great ones, imho. The problem is, none of us know if he can do either of those two things and will not know until he is given the keys to the machine. ALL I WANT IS A WINNER IN CLEVELAND!! (not an "almost" winner) *DRINK*
Good article by Peter King on his thoughts on the future of the QB position.... http://mmqb.si.com/2014/12/03/quarterback-market-draft-2015/
It looks like the Browns have said Hoyer is starting. Nothing official yet. i think it's the right call, but the leash should be short.
If you think it's the right call, you've never been to a game in Cleveland. I wouldn't feel nearly as adamant about this decision if the game were on the road... Here is the scene, first drive of the game for the Browns, Hoyer throws an incomplete on 3rd and 5, the stadium is louder with the boo birds than they are cheering so the defense can't hear the play call... That will set a tone for a COMPLETE and utter embarrassment for Hoyer, and ultimately the Browns. I SINCERELY hope, Hoyer magically becomes a high caliber QB for this game in particular, but the game film doesn't lie and our fans are RELENTLESS...If you think you may have to go to Manziel If/When Hoyer falters, then you SHOULD HAVE already made your decision on Manziel and give him the tools he deserves by preparing him in the week leading up to the game. I am not happy, but I will support my team on Sunday regardless...
From Mary Kay over at Cleveland.com...... CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Brian Hoyer has held off Johnny Manziel and will start at quarterback for the Cleveland Browns on Sunday against the Indianapolis Colts, a league source confirmed for Northeast Ohio Media Group. Hoyer has been informed by Browns coach Mike Pettine that he will take the field against the 8-4 Colts on Sunday at FirstEnergy Stadium. Fox's Jay Glazer first reported that Hoyer would stay the starter. With four games remaining, the Browns (7-5) are in a three-way tie for second place in the AFC North with Baltimore and Pittsburgh. They are all 1 1/2 games behind the 8-3-1 Bengals, who come to town next week. Pettine huddled up with Shanahan, quarterbacks coach Dowell Loggains and general manager Ray Farmer to make the decision, which he acknowledged was a very difficult one. Pettine has appreciated Hoyer's work ethic, dedication, passion and other "play like a Brown" attributes. However, his performance had tailed off in recent weeks to the point where Pettine had to consider a change. "As I said (Sunday), I just felt we needed to make a change,'' he said Monday of benching Hoyer in favor of Manziel with 12:01 left in the Buffalo game. "We needed a spark. We had been listless for a good amount of time. Really two of the past three games on offense (we've) had those issues. I think the defenses had a lot to do with it. "Atlanta, I do think that we were very confident. It was our highest yardage production output of the year, but interceptions were obviously a concern. I don't want to say that he was taken out because we lost confidence. It was a decision in-game to spark our team." In the past three games, Hoyer (11 TDs, 10 INTs, 79.9 rating) has thrown one touchdown pass and six interceptions, three of which were on passes intended for Josh Gordon. He earned ratings of 61.2, 52.3 and 51.0 in those games to tumble to 27th in the league. He hasn't thrown a touchdown pass in nine quarters and only one in the last 15. His completion percentage is lowest in the NFL and he managed to convert only three of the defense's league-leading 17 takeaways over the past seven games into touchdowns. But Hoyer, who has four fourth-quarter come-from-behind victories this season, defended his performance in the locker room Monday, reminding folks of what he's accomplished this season. "We're 7-5,'' he said. "This just doesn't happen by luck. It was hard-earned, and we've worked to get where we're at. We're still in it. With those other teams losing yesterday, we have four more games. Two of them are division games. "You don't get to 7-5 in the NFL just lucking into it. It's been a lot of hard work, and I think I've proven that I've gotten us to this point. I feel like I can carry us through the next four games. There's no doubt in my mind that I'll be ready to go." He said Monday he fully expected to keep his his starting job despite Pettine contemplating a switch beginning Sunday night. "Yeah, I don't have any doubt in myself,'' Hoyer said. "I never have throughout this entire process, going back to last year. I feel like we're 7-5. We still have a chance to attain all of our goals. It's still there in front of us. That decision's not up to me though, and I'll be ready. I'm going to go about it as business as usual and see where it goes." Manziel engineered an 80-yard scoring drive in Buffalo capped by his dive into the end zone -- followed by the money sign. He vowed after the Bills game that he'd "definitely be ready'' if his number was called. "Maybe get a chance to start at home, Cleveland fans are nuts,'' he said. "It's obviously a game that going down the stretch every single one of them is important to us, so we need to go out and get a win.''
The Browns have placed WR Miles Austin (kidney) on the IR and signed RB Shaun Draughn. Draughn is a 26-year-old from UNC. I guess all I have read and heard about West having attitude problems is true . why else would they sign another RB ? West to the big dog house . why didn't they sign another WR ? They also worked out two kickers & talked with WR Duron Carter ..Chris Carters son . Hoyer gets the start and it is the right choice . he is on notice as he should be . his leash is SHORT .
Browns v. Indianapolis Colts Sunday, 1 p.m., in FirstEnergy Stadium Record: 8-4. Last game: Defeated Washington Redskins, 49-27, Nov. 30, in Indianapolis. Coach: Chuck Pagano, 30-14, third year. Series record: Browns lead, 17-15 (counting postseason). Last meeting: Colts won, 17-13, Oct. 21, 2012, in Indianapolis. League rankings: Offense overall is 1st (15th rushing, 1st passing), defense is 23rd (13th rushing, 25th passing) and turnover differential is minus-2. Offensive overview: In his third season, quarterback Andrew Luck has developed into the ringmaster of the league?s most productive passing game and highest-scoring team. The Colts average 326 passing yards a game ? 22 yards more than runner-up Denver. And he?s doing it with a very limited running game in the wake of a season-ending injury to Ahmad Bradshaw. Ex-Brown Trent Richardson averages 3.3 yards a rush. But Luck has a vast array of passing options. Coordinator Pep Hamilton favors a two-tight end offense and he has two good ones in Coby Fleener (17.0 average and six TDs), Luck?s Stanford teammate, and Dwayne Allen, who is the better all-around tight end. Allen?s seven TDs leads a group of nine players with TD catches. They have a terrific trio of wideouts in T.Y. Hilton (68 receptions, 1,145 yards, five TD), Reggie Wayne (54 catches) and 6-2, 220-pound rookie Donte Moncrief (16.3 average). Defensive overview: Chuck Pagano?s 3-4 defense lacks a superstar pass rusher after losing Robert Mathis to a torn Achilles tendon. It has yielded more than 30 points in a game four times. Still, it ranks second in third down defense, yielding opponents to only 34 percent conversions on third downs. It had four games in a row of allowing only one third-down conversion ? the longest such streak of any team since 1970. Pagano relies on frequent blitzing to create pass pressure and has received sacks from 12 different players. Ex-Brown D?Qwell Jackson already has accumulated 137 tackles ? 29 more than any other player. The unit?s best player has been cornerback Vontae Davis, whose 18 passes defensed rank second in the NFL. But a concussion injury may limit Davis. If he doesn?t play, nickel back Darius Butler would start on the outside and Josh Gordy would come in on nickel. Teams have had a lot of success with multiple receiver formations straining the Colts? depth in the secondary. Special teams overview: Josh Cribbs has lit a spark to a stagnant return game, which has completed one of the best all-around units in the league. Cribbs, signed two weeks ago, returned his first kickoff 47 yards. In the same game, he had an 82-yard punt return for a touchdown called back by penalty. He is averaging 31.4 yards on kickoffs and 7.6 on punts, and also has made a tackle on kick coverage. The kicking game, helped by the Colts? home dome, is superlative, the finest in the NFL. Kicker Adam Vinatieri, the league?s oldest player (42 later this month), is 25 of 25 on field goals, extending his consecutive streak to 31, with a long of 53 yards. Punter Pat McAfee not only leads the NFL in net punting average (44.4 yards) and is third in gross (47.4), as kickoff specialist he leads the league with 63 touchbacks. The Colts also have converted three onside kicks, tops in the league. Players to watch: 1. Quarterback Andrew Luck: A worthy heir to former Indianapolis institution Peyton Manning, he has led the Colts to 30 wins in three years ? four more than Manning in that time. He is on pace for 5,300 passing yards and 45 TDs. 2. Receiver T.Y. Hilton: Only 5-9 and 178 pounds, the third-year veteran has taken over from Reggie Wayne as Luck?s favorite receiver. He leads the team with 68 receptions and is tied for third in the NFL with a 16.8-yard receiving average for 1,145 yards. 3. Kicker Adam Vinatieri: The NFL?s oldest active player will be 42 at the end of Decemberand has not lost any strength or accuracy in his right leg. The man who kicked winning field goals in each of New England?s three Super Bowl victories in the early 2000s, he earned a fourth ring with the Colts after the 2006 season. He has made 31 consecutive field goal tries, improving his career percentage to 83.7. He is the NFL scoring leader among active players. Injury report: CB Vontae Davis (concussion) left the last game and will be under league protocol this week. TE Dwayne Allen (ankle) missed the last two games, but is expected to return. Small world: Head coach Chuck Pagano was Browns? secondary coach from 2001 to ?04 ? Rob Chudzinski, special assistant to the head coach, was Browns head coach in 2013 and previously was offensive coordinator (2007-08) and tight ends coach (2004) ? Running back Trent Richardson (2012-13), linebacker D?Qwell Jackson (2006-13), return specialist Josh Cribbs (2005-12) and safety Mike Adams (2007-11) played for the Browns ? Assistant special teams coach Brant Boyer played for the Browns (2001-03).
2 things. I don't think being from Cleveland or a fan is necessary to think something is the right call. I know you and alot of fans think differently but there are fans that think the same I do. I don't think Duran Carter is able to join a team on the field until the following season. Good luck making the playoffs. (not sarcasm)
I just saw the QB decision. I am disappointed to say the least. I see the playoffs going right into a DB's hands much like a Hoyer pass. I don't like this flip flop CHIT! Right now they are trying to smooth things over with Hoyer. They want him back at a cheap price. But I think Hoyer may win 1 more game this year. Carolina! So 8-8 will be great in my eyes. I'm happy with that. GO BROWNS!!!!!!
They need to sign Carter!!!!!! This kid has major talent. A buckeye! I also heard many teams are wanting him. Plus he is from Ohio, like his daddy!
Just out of curiosity Joe, who are you a fan of in the NFL? I don't think I have ever figured that out..You have a lot of opinions about many teams, but I don't see you talking about any team considerably...I thought from our days of Mock Drafts you were an Eagles fan, but I haven't seen much if anything from you about the Eagles...You seem to have an opinion on the Browns quite often though... I never said, anyone couldn't have an opinion about this QB situation, I was making an observation about the atmosphere that can easily bombshell this decision on Sunday afternoon... I believe this is a terrible decision based on what Hoyer has shown me on film over the past 5 games straight. It has nothing to do with one or two game over reaction, he has been steadily bad over the course of 5 games, and sporadically ALL YEAR LONG...We are in a playoff hunt despite QB play...3 out of our last 4 opponents are also scratching for the playoffs and will be throwing EVERYTHING in the arsenal to win games against us so that they can be the one standing when playoff positioning is complete in 4 weeks. If we were throwing everything in our arsenal to try and make the playoffs, that would mean transitioning to a QB that gives us more than a one dimensional aspect of the position...that is what Hoyer gives you.. a safe bet, some would say, but when you look at 1 TD and 6 INTS in 4 games...that doesn't say safe play to me in the least..It says poor decision And I will not hear the excuse, the Browns are 7-5 this year, 10-5 with Hoyer as starter...They could easily be better than that with another QB starting, no one knows that is the Browns ceiling...What I do know is they are consistently in need of all other aspects of the game to be at the very top in order to win games consistently. For all those saying Hoyer should have a very short leash...That is total BS If a leash is short, then you have no confidence and you should give a player every opportunity to prepare to run this offense if that is the case. Hoyer should, imho, be given every opportunity to win this game, whether he throws 3 TDs or 3 INTs in the first quarter on Sunday...No short leash imho...that leash could be his noose, however, at this point he should be given every opportunity to quiet all naysayers by giving him the complete game to prove himself.
The decision was made! We all know talent wise JM is head and shoulders above Hoyer. Right now the Browns dont want to piss off Hoyer, then he doesnt want to resign here. They are happy we are 7-9. This is a year in, year out 4 win football team. With or without Hoyer they will get to 8-8. They seen where Manziel is at. They seen him in game action. Now lets all watch as Hoyer digs himself into a bigger hole!
The Browns (nor anyone else) CAN'T sign him. Now that the CFL's season has ended, his contract with Montreal has expired, in effect making him a free agent. However, from what I understand (and I could be wrong), the NFL and the CFL have a long standing agreement that, once either's season starts, they can not sign a free agent from the other league until BOTH league's seasons have ended. He can work out for teams now but can not sign a contract until after the Super Bowl.
this is correct . teams are lining up for his services .he will play for someone in the NFL next season . may it be in Cleveland .
I think starting Hoyer is a bad call... We need all the confidence, brashness and moxie that we can muster this week..... Hoyer looks like the opposite of that....He looks defeated, deflated and seriously lacking in confidence right now. I suppose that's what completing barely 50% of your passes and turning the ball over with regularity will do for ya...I don't get it. How bad does the journeyman back-up have to play before the team turns to the first round draft pick rookie? I mean, who do they think is the future here? It makes no sense to me.... I think it was Irish that said, "once Johnny gets on the field, he won't come off"....I believed this to be true as well. Unfortunately, it's not up to us, and now we gotta live with Pettine's decision....I'm hoping for the best, but my confidence in Hoyer is fading fast.... If I'm the Colts, I key on the Cleveland running game...Shut that down, and Hoyer will fold. At least Johnny can give them another dimension. We saw a glimpse of it on Sunday...It just seems like the Browns are afraid to start the Johnny era. Not sure why they even drafted him. The guy playing ahead of him has been terrible, but it doesn't seem to matter...
I am Eagles fan and I do talk about them quite a bit and have posted threads on the main board but since there aren't many fans of them here I don't go at it so much. Instead I talk about the league in general and yes I have opinions on many teams. Browns just happen to be a common topic this year. (plus I get bored sometimes and wander over here because you guys are pretty cool. Even if I don't always have the best comments to get on your good side. lol.) As for the Hoyer short leash thing, he has regressed recently but he still has helped them win. The whole Johnny going in thing was a message to him and it should stoke a fire under him. If it doesn't then yes, maybe it is time to give someone else a shot, even if I personally don't think Johnny will succeed.
