Do either of you see a scenario where this regime ultimately drafts another QB beginning somewhere in round 3? Do either of you see this regime entertaining a first round pick on another QB if the opportunity presents itself to upgrade at the position again? Not fanning flames or throwing kerosene, I'm interested in thoughts concerning 2015.
You keep going on and on about long term this and chemistry and whatnot. Focus, Irish . . . focus! What reason would Pettine have not to give Hoyer the hook in the Jacksonville game and, at least, find out what their 1st round investment had at game speed. I even mentioned in my "Reality Check" article that I was shocked that did not happen. The only thing that I can come up with is that Manziel's mental skill set is lacking and he still doesn't have the playbook down pat. On the sideline?
Absolutely! And, as you wondered, it could indeed happen as soon as the first round next year. Obviously a lot of that will depend upon; a. Can Brian Hoyer rebound from his performances in the last few games. b. The resolution of Hoyer's contract (assuming he does, in fact, rebound. If he doesn't, it's a mute point) c. The coaching staff's evaluation of Johnny Manziel's NFL future. Can he cut the mustard or is it time to cut bait and run.
Absolutely, I don't think Farmer is the type of GM to cross any player off their list when it comes to the draft. If that player that presents itself on draft day falling happens to be a highly rated QB, I don't think it matters what round it happens, I think he would pull the trigger. This is the NFL, you NEVER know what you have in a draft pick, that is especially true as it pertains to QBs. If they evaluate, and I believe they will evaluate EVERY QB available, a QB and he falls within their grading spectrum, It would not surprise me in the least. It's the, why pass on Andrew Luck, simply because you have a QB question...Not only did the Colts make their decision, they let ther future HOF QB walk out the door.... Last time I checked, the Browns don't have a future All Pro, let alone a future HOFer on the roster.
A reasonable exchange of thoughts? On the Manziel / Hoyer subject. I am speechless. Well said on both sides of the argument, and I might add a pretty accurate assesment. Manziel does possess superior physical tools. Hoyer keeps winning, and avoiding the big mistakes. The "Wins" is all Hoyer holds as a trump card also feels right. To his detriment, unlike an established NFL starter, he cannot afford to have consecutive "bad games" that end in losses. I firmly believe that to be ttue, whether Pettine & Co. believe Manziel is the future right now or not, if the team slides, they will have to make the move to find out. Lym, I like Irish's prediction better, naturally, but I think we agree there is but 1 game that appears unwinnable: the Colts. Every other game I think we would agree that the Browns will get the chance to win. IMO this week's game is the farthest reach. Teams evolve, injuries happen and fortunes turn, so it could all go in some unforseen direction too, but as the teams stand now, I think your reasoning is as sound as anyone else's, and I wouldn't lay any money against either prediction. Win Ugly. I believe that is our formula, since the line rode the cart out of the stadium during the Pitt game. Not ideal, but I like to imagine what this team would be doing with Mack still there....... A Powerhouse? Think about the kind of turn around the league would be seeing in Cleveland if our line had been able to stay together. A hell of a job by the Rookie Coach and his staff. A hell of a job by Slam to make the changes he needed to. If the world was smiling on the team, Gordon would also be there and then what???? Some season we are having
Jacksonville is a moot point... At the time of that game, the Browns had been trailing by 24 to the Steelers and came back to tie...on the road They were trailing by 27 to the Titans and came back to win...on the road Both of which were considered better talent wise than the Jaguars and the Browns In between, they had 2 wins and a loss to the Ravens on the road that came down to a last second FG They were on a 2 game win streak including a dismantling of the (yes rival) Steelers.. At the end of the 3rd QTR, the Browns were down 10-6... WHY again, would you expect Hoyer to enter this game? IT wasn't until the 4th QTR meltdown that HANDED two TDs on a platter to the hapless Jaguars that the Browns were out of this game...and Pettine probably STILL felt they had a chance, it was after all the Jaguars. I know you for some reason see this game as the turning point of Manziel never seeing the field, but that game would PALE in comparison to a 1 for 4 stretch as we have playoffs in our sites. That is the scenario you laid out and why I reacted with my comment. LOSING 3 out of 4, including at home against a Texans team who don't have a QB they want to start would be much worse than a Jaguars team on the road who are trotting out their #4 overall draft pick QB and the Browns handing them the victory. My bigger question is to the overall fan base... How in the HELL is this all we have to talk about, and only two fans at that, in a week where AFC North first place could be on the line against the favored Bengals??? Don't get me wrong Lym, I enjoy the company on these boards, it has been way too quiet for my liking, but come on Dawgs...let's get excited for tomorrow night already!!!! WOOF WOOF!!!
Irish, the way you expressed yourself, allowing that Hoyer should keep his job if he wins, and only lose it if he stacks up losses, pins you as a Browns fan first, and Manzielot, a distant second. Exactly my feelings. I admit I love the Hoyer story, hometown boy, coming off an injury, getting his first shot at the big job, but only in so far as he wins. His weaknesses show, but his dogged determination to keep firing, play smart, and calm, speak volumes too.............. as long as they win. If not, I too would like to get an idea of what Johnny can do, but not to the team's detriment. The good news on that front IMO, is that Hoyer is a proven commodity, and if / when Johnny stumbles, Hoyer, like the pro he is, will come in and do his thing (he'll be auditioning anyway).
Back to the record. Assuming they don't pull and 0 for November, the Browns will be playing for a playoff berth through mid December at least. That makes any coach's decision cloudy, especially a QB change. Being an admitted Hoyalist, I too wondered why Johnny didn't get the call in Jax. Because I like Hoyer, I am easily talked into believing Pettine & Co. still don't feel he is ready. I could be very wrong. It could be controversy avoidance, not wanting to stir that national pot of Manziel stew, in order to preserve consistency for the Offense. I don't know, and when they say he "is where they want him to be", it doesn't clarify anything at all, which is probably exactly what they intend. Look, so far I don't have much bad to say about our new HC, so whatever he is doing is OK with me. I like winning. It feels new. As for Thursday night: Red Rifle doesn't scare me, as I'm sure Destroyer Hoyer does't scare them. The Bengals have always been Jekyl and Hyde, so which one shows up is anyone's guess. On paper they have the superior O, beyond that????????? Getting pumped to see this one!!!!!!!!! GO BROWNS
Where are you? The team is 5 and 3. Tomorrow we play for the division, and with a national audience. Is it really down to 5 or 6 of us in the lounge? Irish I'm buying, since I can afford this crowd. Is it that we won't believe until we beat Cinci. Is it "we won't get fooled again" (thank you Who). I don't know but you can hear yourself sweat in here.
Since I am talking to myself: has anyone heard what's going on in Philly? QB for hire! Locals are not happy with their starter, and are ready to Keep Sanchez, let Foles go, and draft another QB to groom. So......... If you had Hoyer / Sanchez / Foles who would you take? I bring it up because IMO they are all about the same in value. Hoyer is the smartest, best leader / Foles has the arm but is immobile and hasn't demonstrated leadership / Sanchez has mobility and experience, but is mistake prone. If the plan is to draft and sit a guy for a year, each of these guys fills the gap OK, but what would your preference be? Me? I'm a Hoyer guy. I think he's the better QB of the 3, and frankly a better guy to learn under. Not sure how Johnny would judge that though.
Tim, you asked if the Browns would draft a QB next year. I think it is a nearly mortal lock. They bought a shiny new QB this year and he can't get on the field. Now Hoyer'd winning certainly impacts that, but in my mind if they believe he is the "franchise guy" WTF? They haven't offered Hoyer a contract to make him the "franchise guy" either, so IMO, they don't know if they have one on the roster, thus they grab another guy. They have only two options right now, and while I like Hoyer, I am not convinced enough to offer him that kind of contract yet, and niether are the Browns. So when the season ends they have to make a choice to either sign Hoyer or simply let him go, and then they are handing the job to Manziel, which I remain unconvinced about, and if we are to read the actions of the coaches (no playing time), hasn't made believers out of them either, so either way I would expect them to get another QB. Since they own Manziel, I guess it's possible they call Jerry Jones about a trade, sign Hoyer, and still pick up a QB in the draft. Given Romo's back issues, that train may be headed for the depot anyway, and I'm pretty sure they aren't going to hand the keys to Weeden. Well maybe the keys to the equipment room. It is hard to imagine a scenario where Hoyer and Manziel are still here next season. If I am Hoyer, I don't sign in Cleveland to "compete" with Johnny again. I can't help thinking about Brady Quinn, who also couldn't get onto the field. Turned out there was a reason for that, and maybe we are seeing history repeat itself. Jerry likes the circus, so do the NY Jets, so Johnny could still have value for cleveland even if it isn't on the field. Still I would like to see what all the fuss is about with Johnny. Is he all flash and no flesh, or are we just unable to find the right set of circumstances to set him loose?
It's Philly Ken, They are NEVER happy. Donovan McNabb took them to the playoffs 9 out of 11 seasons and they wanted him replaced...and unlike Dalton, he actually won playoff games... To answer your question though..the known is always better imho, we know Hoyer can win in Shanahan's system, so at this point, it would be Hoyer. I wouldn't mind seeing Foles though. I liked him coming out of college and he does seem to have some tools...As for Sanchez, I didn't like him coming out and he still hasn't shown me anything.
Rumor has it the Cowboys came calling before the deadline passed and the Browns said flat, no, Manziel isn't available for a trade... Rumors are rumors, but I have learned, usually where there is smoke there is fire.
Yea, I heard the same rumor but didn't give it much leg. OBTW: the Jets and Texans were also rumored.
There is nothing wrong with the way the Browns are handling the QB's. So far, it's working out great. Hoyer has played well enough to keep the young guy on the bench, where hopefully he is getting better every week. This is working out perfect for the Browns, and will continue to as long as Hoyer keeps winning....Nothing wrong with the rookie watching a pro do the job. He needs to stay prepared, but we don't have to rush him in there... I really have mixed feelings about Hoyer. I love that he wins games and doesn't turn the ball over and I guess that's the most important things. At times though I'm really scratching my head at his accuracy issues. I'm worried those "3 and outs" that seem so common, are going to bite us when we face better QB's. I just don't know what to think right now. Maybe BH is just always going to have us in close games.... This is for sure, tomorrow will be huge if he can beat the Bengals again. Under the lights in our lone primetime game, doesn't get any bigger than that for the Browns....Can't wait to see what happens. I think Hoyer and the Browns will find a way to get it done, and when that happens, the Cleveland Browns will officially be considered a contender.
Crazy Crex?s Musings: *WRITE* Nice Read Lym. Thanks. *THUMBSUP* *BRAVO* *DRINK* Ok Irish let me see if I got this straight? You?re excited about tomorrow?s game, but yet expect the Browns to lose? Not so sure I want some of that Kool-Aid you?re brewing. *SCRATCH* Anyway... I?d say I?m more nervous than excited Irish. I too feel that this is a pivotal game in the Browns season. Divisional opponent on the Road, the kind of games the Browns MUST win if they are to be in the hunt for the playoffs/let alone the division title. And yet the consensus appears that the odds are against the Browns. Nothing new? I want this team to win and think that they can, to do that the Browns are going to have to win the war upfront in the trenches. NO ifs and or buts about it. This game will be won or lost in the trenches. In order to win the Browns are going to have to play nearly flawless football in all three phases of the game. Lots of little things to overcome. *HELP* @= Losing this game will not necessarily be the end all to the season, but could be the one that either puts us over the top or makes the climb all that harder. One game at a time folks one game at a time? Here we go Brownies Here we GO! WOOF WOOF!!!!!
I agree with the comment above. This game has a lot to do with Hoyer's future here in Cleveland. I think he has to this point earned a spot on the QB depth chart. He has to my surprise done an averagely good job. He doesn't turn the ball over and he's winning. As Herm Edwards said "You play to win the game". Hoyer seems to lack confidence. I think that shows in his bad throws and his lack of picks. Not throwing into traffic is an indicator of either being smart or no confidence. Choose one! I will say this. I would like JM to play some this season. I want to know what I got in him before the draft. I'm of the conclusion that Hoyer is what he is. But how much better or worse than that is Johnny Football. I heard the same rumors you guys did. Teams wanted JM and Cameron for that matter. So we must have something there. If Manziel does play and move's the ball, protects the ball and wins then that will tell the tape so to speak. QB battle here in Cleveland. Then it will be how much do we pay Hoyer? He would be a good back up. Protects the ball and wins. So I guess what I'm saying is I still would draft a QB. Manziel/Hoyer starter backup then rookie to groom. But we have to let Manziel play some first. But 1st I want a WR, OLB/DE. Get after the QB and shut down the run.
