Alright, Lyman. Just noticed Walter is holding something new in your Avi. What is that? A bottle of Christmas Ale?
VERY observant there, Duff. It's only been there since the NFL draft. It's a long neck bottle of Twisted Kilt in honor of Irish's QB rankings!
Well, been a little occupied since the draft with selling the house and moving and just plain old being a blind idiot......... *CRAZY*
Extra Points ? No time: This is the fourth year in a row the Browns are appearing in a prime-time game on Thursday night. Their last prime-time game on a different night was in 2009 when they lost to the Ravens, 16-0, in Cleveland on a Monday night. What makes Thursday night a special challenge, of course, is that it compresses the work week and stresses the players? recovery time physically and mentally from the previous game. ?You?re not really back to health or you?re not really feeling fresh, but the good news is it?s a level playing field because both teams feel the same way,? said left tackle Joe Thomas. The compressed time really stresses the coaching staff. Ordinarily, Tuesday is players? off day and coaches grind all day to prepare the gameplan. This week, coaches got started on a gameplan Sunday night and introduced it to players on Monday night. Coach Mike Pettine scheduled his team?s one full practice for Tuesday night, 7:15 to 9:15, to get their bodies better acclimated to the night-time game. The Browns will have a morning walk-through on Wednesday morning and depart for Cincinnati that afternoon. Despite the inconveniences, Thomas said he is in favor of Thursday night games. ?It?s like a mini-bye, especially when we had the first bye in the NFL (after the third game),? he said. ?It really didn?t feel like much of a break. Playing on a Thursday gives you an opportunity to get a little bit of a break on your body and your mind kind of midway through the season, somewhere in there. ?I like them. I think it?s good for the game to play on a Thursday night. It?s good for growing the total revenue for the NFL. I think that?s something players can get behind.? Pettine has plenty of experience in prime-time games as an assistant coach with playoff teams with the Jets and Ravens. He was Buffalo?s defensive coordinator last year, of course, when the Bills played in Cleveland on a Thursday night. ?These are circumstances that we?re going to have to learn to deal with, playing with different schedules,? Pettine said. ?If you want to be a good football team, it?s something you have to get used to. So this will be a good test of our mental and physical toughness.? No line changes: Pettine termed the performance of the offensive line against Tampa Bay?s defensive front ?a step backwards,? but there are no plans for changes. No time for them, anyways. ?We?re not going to abandon our approach,? Pettine said. ?We feel over time we?ll get better up front. We took a step backwards. We?re trying to regain that ground.? Pettine attributed center Nick McDonald?s rough game to having to oppose Tampa All-Pro tackle Gerald McCoy in only McDonald?s second game in two years. ?It?s a combination. It is,? Pettine said of McDonald?s game. ?That front will do that to you. A couple times we put him in a tough position to make a block. They?re tough players. They knocked us back at times. I just think overall, not just Nick, I think that whole group has to keep pushing forward and improve each week.? Running back carousel: Since Isaiah Crowell muffed two pitchouts and fumbled the ball in the Pittsburgh game, Crowell?s touches of the ball have decreased from seven v. Jacksonville to one v. Oakland to none v. Tampa Bay. Pettine said the fumbles had nothing to do with the decreased workload, though coaches preferred Ben Tate handling the ball to ice the win v. Oakland. Pettine said there was no disciplinary reason for Crowell not playing on offense v. Tampa Bay. ?The kid?s in very good standing with the team,? Pettine said. ?It was a staff decision and we assess that each week. We evaluate everything from A to Z. How they?re practicing, a lot of factors that go into their play. I don?t want to get into projecting forward. We assess each week who we feel gives us the best chance to be successful and that?s who we roll with.? Brownie bits: Pettine would not comment on tight end Jordan Cameron?s status for Thursday or the practice week ? The Browns had to release an injury report and project practice status for Monday, even though they did not practice. Their report: Cameron (concussion), safety Johnson Bademosi (concussion), receiver Andrew Hawkins (thigh/knee) and defensive end Phil Taylor (knee) did not practice; defensive end Billy Winn (toe) was limited. All other players on injury report were listed as full practice ? Cornerback Justin Gilbert, who left the Tampa Bay game and was evaluated for a concussion but not diagnosed with one, was not on the injury report.
I'll tell you where TED came from. In High School my coach called our tight end a TED. T for tight and ED for end. Together made TED. He called it his abbreviation. He played linebacker at BW. He was our defensive cord. and linebacker/d-line coach. Ever since then I called a tight end, TED. Playing MLB in high school he taught me a lot about reading offenses. Things like.... 1. Follow the guards. If they attack its a run play, if they step back scream Pass,Pass,Pass LOL. It gets tricky on screens. Then look for the back. 2. When a guard pulls follow his back pocket. If you read it fast enough there should be a gap with a RB in it. 3. Wide eyes with your head on a swivel. We usually played 3-4 cover 2 . So he taught me to look for the TED (lol) first then WR. Our CB was 2nd team all-state so he would cover the other teams best WR or one side of the field. 4. Watch eyes. The guard or RB would usually look at where they are about to go. but Irish thats where it comes from. BW!, lol
Crowell? I agree he's our most dangerous back. I was shocked to have him shut out in this game. But based on the statements from the coach, I wonder if he's playing possum, and plans to fly the Crow in Cinci. The ball security issue is real though, and I fully understand him not putting into the TB game, given how close the game was. But I believe Pettine recognizes the need to throw everything at the Bengals, take some risks, etc....... so I am expecting to see the Crow Thursday night. Unlike some of the earlier games, I didn't see plays where West chose poorly in his running, not that there were a lot of choices available. Line play has to improve, or we are in deep with the Cinci D line. On the flip side our WR corps has done a terrific job of making the catches, in some case saving plays and drives. I'd like to see that continue, but I suspect that will come in fits and starts, but not be the norm. Too bad, cause I think Hoyer and the O as a whole will need them to. This is a Big Test of where we are, and I know we have injuries, but "good teams" rise above, win ugly, do whatever it takes. Are we a good team? I don't think we are yet, but beating Cinci, thus paving a potential path to the playoffs, I could change my mind. If they go down............ not so much.
Yea Irish, Iget that. It's all that matters, and on that note: style points ? Don't care, put up 10 ugliy W's and I am a happy Browns fan. After 8 games we have played level to our opponent in every game, with the exception of the Pittsburgh 2 game. That said, I am hoping we keep that up this week. The Big difference thus far this year, is we are no longer finding ways to lose those close games, but instead are making a few critical plays and winning them. We can't under value what a difference that makes. The O is clearly negatively impacted by the loss of Mack, and that isn't going to get a lot better. The Big difference is we are no longer dependent upon the O outscoring the opponent, becuase the "D" has caught up, and is looking like the "attack style" D Pettine promised. They struggled through the first 3 games and then started to jell. We've had to move guys around, bench our 1st round CB, and learn on the fly, but we have, and the dividends for having to make up for guys out is we have more battle tested guys now to go to. Winning ugly is nothing to disrespect. It forces teams to operate under pressure, and to develop trust in one another. Each ugly win solidifies their belief in each other to overcome and have faith that someone is going to make a play. Confidence is king. A confident player isn't "thinking" so hard, but trusting in his training and instincts to do the right thing. I guess that's a prayer, so amen, but I believe there is something to "positive thinking" and that is born of success, especially success under fire. The fire will be red hot this week; tough divisional opponent, with "first place" on the line, and the entire NFL watching to find out if we are contenders or SOBs.
Nice read Lym. The road ahead is perilous, and recent games don't inspire confidence, but that's why they play the games. Taking this from game 1, and from Day 1, with new staff all around, I'm very happy with where we stand today, but also have set my expectations higher, given the good start. Tempering that with the reality of the second half's opponents, I still want to believe the progress we have clearly shown defensively, will keep us in it, and the O will sputter buy make enough plays to pull off victories. Any shootouts will be nearly impossible to win with the O line being disfunctional, at least until Gordon returns, and changes the dynamics of what defenses have to do. These next couple games will be trial by fire, and the only way we win, is to "gut it out", with D leading the way. I could be a pretty happy Browns fan if we can go 50/50, and finish at 9 and 7, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't hope for double digits.
Kendawg . . . It wasn't my intention to spread gloom and doom or, in any way, to disparage what the Browns have done so far this year. Prior to the start of the season, I predicted they would finish at 3-13 ( http://mudncleats.com/forumlist/viewtopic.php?id=3492 ) so they have already exceeded my expectations and I am ecstatic about that. But there is no denying that the offensive production has entirely eroded after Mack went down in Week 6 and, after three weeks, it doesn't appear that the answer is in the building. The return of Josh Gordon will help but I don't think he make much of an impact until he starts taking reps in practice. I look to see the old Josh emerge around week 13. Defensively, we are blessed to have had the depth we have up front. Currently on IR are John Hughes (designated for return) and Armonty Bryant. Add in Phil Taylor and Ahtyba Rubin missing significant playing time and its a wonder we could field anything more than a high school defense. The good news is in the secondary. A case could be made that the Browns have the best set of Safeties in the AFC North with Gipson and Whitner. It sort of looks like Joe Haden may be returning to form but the jury is still out on Gilbert and Desir has been invisible. Perhaps the best kept secret is rookie K'Waun Williams. That said, here's how I see the season playing out; Week 10: @ Bengals - Loss. Too many weapons and they're at home. Week 11: Texans - Loss. Don't expect a lot of points. Watt and Clowney will stifle our running game. Week 12: @ Falcons - Win. Atlanta is a mess right now - even at home. Week 13: @ Bills - Loss. Pettine knows a lot about these guys but they're simply in better shape right now. Week 14: Colts - Loss. Andrew Luck. Enough said. Week 15: Bengals - Win. This one could be a shootout. Advantage = Gordon. Week 16: @ Panthers - Loss. Tough run "D" and we're on the road. Week 17: @ Ravens - Win. Shapes up to be the battle for last place in the AFC North. They aren't nearly as good as their fan base thinks they are. Final record . . . 8-8-0 I'll take it!
Full disclaimer here, I have given McDonald a lot of flack...right along with what you are saying here... But you AND I are really not giving him his due... While we agree in principle that the guy isn't on the roster, I believe that is because McDonald can't be relied upon long term. I do believe that he will improve drastically each week and while never reaching Mack's production, I think he can help this team, rather than deter it the way he has the past two weeks. We are talking about a guy who signed with the Chargers in January and was released just prior to training camp and was on our practice squad ever since. He was running the scout team offense for the entirety of his existence with the Browns until the week after Mack's injury. He did play for the Patriots, including starting during their 2012 Super Bowl run...BUT, that was at right guard. He has never played center as a starter in the NFL. We are throwing a lot on his plate in just 3 weeks time and he only has 2 games to show for it. The fact Hoyer hasn't been sacked more is probably a miracle. My hope is that he is a good enough band aid each week, that when Gordon gets back, he will be the shot in the arm to propel this team into a playoff run. Couldn't agree more!! I could see this playing out exactly as you have it mapped...I certainly don't see it any worse than that... But I could also see it like this: Week 10: @ Bengals - Loss. I agree this is a VERY tall order on the road Week 11: Texans - Win. This is one home field will play into, Fitzpatrick is not good enough to fight our crowd noise Week 12: @ Falcons - Win. Again, I agree this is a team in disarray right now, home field seems to be no help Week 13: @ Bills - Loss. We are in agreement again...Orton seems to be doing things right and Fred Jackson will be back by the time this game happens. The defense is on playing above ours, right now, but I think they get the home field nod. Week 14: Colts - Loss. I would love to say, HOME FIELD win, but Luck and company will force us to score 35 to win Week 15: Bengals - Win. This is a trap game, for both sides, both should still be vying for playoffs and home field DOES play a part against Dalton, who has shown he can be rattled. Week 16: @ Panthers - Win, simply put, this is a team with a dead men walking. Rivera is on his last leg leading a team with Super Bowl talent and constant mediocre results. Cam Newton may very well be playing for a contract...somewhere else. He doesn't have patience or the loyalty to put his future in Carolina. I don't believe his 5th year option has already been renewed and that could factor into the 2015 off season. (edit: Carolina DID pick up Newton's option, so this is not going to be a factor)...By week 16, I don't thing the Panthers will have anything to play for and the crowd won't be there to support their shortcomings. Week 17: @ Ravens - Win, This is a simple changing of the guard game...at 9-6 the Browns will be looking at a playoff or go home scenario, as I believe the Ravens will as well...Simply put, I am putting my eggs in the basket of the Browns level of play accelerating past the Ravens thought process that they will win, because they have been there before. In the end, we have more talent on defense (or less injuries, I should say, especially to the back field) and that is what wins this game imho... Record 10-6 final We must duplicate what we did in the first half to replicate that record. What I see is this team becoming more comfortable with current schemes by the week. The only two things holding us back right now is the offensive line gelling after the Mack injury, which I see them improving on each week...and yes...the limitations that Brian Hoyer brings to the table. In the end, his positives far outweigh his negatives. This team as currently constructed is built for the run game. Healthy Mack = top 4 running game in the NFL, loss of Mack absolute bottom of the running game in the NFL...Did Mack REALLY make that much difference, I tend to believe it is a gelling period and we end up closer to top 15 which is enough for Hoyer to win games, imho. The defense continues improvement and this team gets the 5 wins in the second half of the season... However, if it turns out YOUR way, then Johnny Manziel is starting week 14 against the Colts at home...THAT I will guarantee you!!
Not so much of a miracle as it's Shanny calling more roll-outs. Don't have the time nor inclination to go back and re-watch every game to count 'em . . . that's just what I seem to recall. You just had to go there, didn't you. :| o The Pettine / Farmer regime inherited Brian Hoyer. They have zero investment in him - correct? o The Pettine / Farmer regime DRAFTED Johnny Manziel in the 1st round. A significant investment - correct? I have tried very hard not fan the flames on the Hoyer/Manziel thing, but . . . I ask you this; First, Manziel was a lock to start after the bye week. Then, because Hoyer was on a roll, he would start when Hoyer fell on his face (which he did against Jacksonville). If Brian Hoyer, with all his warts (inaccurate, journeyman back-up with a bum knee) is all that terrible and Johnny Manziel has all the skill sets and talent to succeed in the NFL . . . then why is Johnny Football still holding a clipboard at week 10?
That is the simplest question you have ever asked... Answer: 5-3 IF it goes down like you are saying, at that point they will be 6-6, losing 3 of 4 and Manziel will have had the off season, and more importantly FOURTEEN weeks of being a professional. I have conceded plenty during this argument... 1) Hoyer, being 100% healthy was more in tune with being a professional to start week one. 2) As the Browns kept winning, Hoyer wouldn't lose his job. 3) Coming into the second half of the season, the test begins to see how these Browns rate against tougher competition and Hoyer has had control of the team since day 1. As long as they win, he stays in that position. But, once he starts losing...consistently...and I would call losing 3 of 4, including one at home against arguably inferior competition, losing consistently... IF that were to happen, then Hoyer would have outlived his usefulness. At that point, Manziel really should have caught up to him as far as this offense is concerned, and I have no doubt his skill set is superior. So, Hoyer's usefulness is WINS, once he cannot produce them, then Manziel is in... As you've already said, this regime owes nothing to Hoyer. If he can't produce against higher caliber teams, then it is time for them to move on to see if their prize possession can produce.
ALL THAT SAID... My scenario keeps Hoyer in throughout the 2014 season, don't forget that. So, I am in no way pining for Manziel to take over this team...I do believe with all my being, Manziel is more of the future than Hoyer is. But for this season to be successful, at this point, it depends on Hoyer staying in there. All I want is for success.
One . . . not debating if Manziel's physical skill set is superior . . . it is. (Happy?) Pettine had a golden opportunity to replace Hoyer in the Jacksonville game. Hoyer plain flat out sucked. I'm not saying that Manziel should have promoted to starter status mid-game but it was an opportunity to, at least, see what the kid has. Why would he not want to find out, at game speed, if their 1st round investment was worth it? That move at that point in time would have been totally justifiable - yet it didn't happen. Could it be that Manziel is still having problems grasping an NFL playbook?
Absolutely it could be...but in the words of Pettine and Farmer, Manziel is exactly where they want him to be at this point...Is that media speak? Why not just deflect the question if so. I read it as, just what they say, he needed to catch up to Hoyer, so Hoyer started. Pretty simple...THEN Hoyer continued to win, so the chemistry need not be upset if the starter is winning games...again, pretty simple. Once that allure of wins is gone, so is the reason for Hoyer to continue in the starting position. I believe Tony Grossi said it best in his article earlier today... I want THAT ^^^ that scenario, not to see Manziel play...I was basing the statement on YOUR prediction of them losing 3 out of the next 4 games.
