I understand what ur saying, but my point was is Oak the team to make judgements against? Now of course if they wuld have lost everyone knows he wuld have been done, but if they won ugly does that warrant another start is what I was saying?
great game by the D. O line play is still porous, and the run game is being hurt, thus the passing game is tenuous, but it will look like a blowout in the W column, and I'll take it. Another week with McDonald at center all week should prove to be valuable in re-establishing some continuity to the line play, and then it gets serious with Cinci coming to town. Some truly outstanding WR work this week, taking balls away from would-be defenders and drops way down. Gilbert has another good game, Haden put on his big boy pants, and some nasty hits from the LBs. Pretty nice work D. I think they are becoming the D we thought we had, but until we do that to Cinci............ Cameron out with a concussion, had an impact. What a hit he took! I hope he recovers, and quickly for the team's sake. He may not be lighting it up, but he still garners a lot of attention, and allows others to get some space to work in. Benjamin remains suspect as a reciever, and his decision making and lack of ball security on punts leaves him looking for work once Gordon returns. That part of our team is in real trouble. Hate to say it, but give the "punt catcher" Leonard, and let me live to play another down. Happy to be 4 and 3. Amen
Cheers Irish *DRINK* I'm really just glad that they came away with a win. I'm not going to attempt to say that Hoyer's stats great as they appear on the surface 19/25 275 1 TD, 0 Int, 0 Fum, and a 111.5 rating, show that he is the real deal. They honestly don't tell the whole story. *HIGH* Basically the offense struggled and perhaps even stunk it up a bit. Less than 50 total yards rushing (as a team) and even worse was the 2-12 on third downs. The one big thing you've been saying all along. I have no room to argue there. :rolleyes: That is the one stat that HAS GOT TO GET BETTER. *WALL* I'm glad that the Defense is starting to come together. Despite his early struggles Gilbert appears to be improving. Gipson is making a case for DPOY. Let's hope he continues to grow and improve. It's a long road till the end of the season. The AFCN is shaping up to be the toughest division once again.
What a pile-up in the AFCN. lol! It wasn't pretty on offense by any means for Cleveland, but they did enough to get the win, and in doing so, managed to keep themselves right in the thick of this race in the AFCN at the halfway point. Hoyer just hasn't looked good at all the last 2 weeks. Without the strong running game, Hoyer is in trouble. He needs that play-action in a major way, and since Alex Mack went down, that whole aspect of the offense has disappeared. Evidently Mack was the key to this offense...Despite the struggles, the really puzzling thing to me is that when the camera pans over to show Johnny on the sideline, it seems like he's about as close to coming into the game as I am...Not sure what's going on, but it looks to me like the Browns have no intention of ever seeing if Johnny can spark this offense when Hoyer is playing poorly. Brian has certainly given them every reason in the world to do just that these last couple games, and I think it's pretty clear, these coaches have decided to sink or swim with BH...We aren't even seeing those pre-scripted "johnny" plays that they did a little bit of in the earlier games... I'm concerned..... I'm glad we got the win....but I'm concerned. Hopefully the O-line can get it together soon because they have GOT to be able to run the ball...Especially these next 2 months when it gets harder to throw.. Getting Gordon back into the fold in a couple weeks will be a big boost...Gotta fight and scrap like they did yesterday to get a couple more W's before that stretch run begins..... That Cincy game is looming large, but I think we all know, this team can't afford to look past Tampa...
I believe this coaching staff wants to win as many games as possible, and that means playing the QB that prepared all week for the game. I did believe that when given as bad a game as the Jaguars, that would change the strategy. When it didn't, I figured they were giving Hoyer the chance to come back like earlier in the season...He didn't and I do believe that changes the strategy going forward as these games become more and more important to keep pace within the division. BUT, as long as the Browns maintain a lead in a game, I don't think Hoyer leaves based on the fact he is the guy they prepared during the week. It is the safe play...
I'd probably go even further. While the team is within a couple games of the division, Hoyer remains the QB. Above 500 with 9 to play....... What coach tosses that aside to see what he has on the bench, unless the guy on the field pulls a Geno Smith (3 INTs in a quarter). With the first playoff birth in what, 17 years, it is hard to make that move. He would have to feel like Johnny in his first start is still a better shot to win the game than Hoyer, and that's a big leap of faith. Yes if Hoyer & co. start losing and the Browns fall 3 games out of the wildcard race, then the urgency to see what Johnny has becomes overwhelming, but a 500 record from here out would land us at 8 or 9 wins. 9 might be enough to make the dance, and few coaches make risky moves with those stakes. On the other hand a loss this week with another weak offensive showing, could move up the timetable, but I for one, am expecting another W. If the O line can get to know one another a little better, the running game should re-emerge, and then the passing game follows, and we are solid again. IMO Hoyer hasn't "lost" a game yet. The entire O played like crap in Jax, and Hoyer did nothing to change that, granted, but he didn't lose the game. I'm sure we disagree on this in either large or minor measure, but the guy has made us competitive, and I know that's not enough for your Irish, but I'd sure like to see a season with 9 in the win column, and take my chances. Johnny's not going anywhere, and baring a sudden elevation of his game Hoyer hasn't taken the position either, so unless Johnny has convinced the coaches he hasn't got it, he will likely get the nod for next year, and Hoyer will be shopped. 9 games left to earn or squander the oppty, Brian. Auditions begin each Sunday.
I didnt see one play of the game this week....u mentioned 3 Ints from Smith and I heard on the radio 2day that Hoyer shuld of had 3 Ints but all of them were dropped...true?
I don't think we disagree at all on this. I have said all along, he helps make this team competitive. I love the fact this team is on pace to win 8 or more games. I don't think we disagree until we reach the point, that is our ceiling with Brian. We will CONSTANTLY have to reload the shelves and PRAY that we have no injuries to ever mount a Super Bowl run, be flawless on draft day and never have to pay him more than $8-10M per season, due to the need of keeping every successful player that becomes a free agent. All of the above happens and you get a shot at one, maybe two chances at a deep playoff run. Look what Dalton brings to the table, a roster full of promise...manages the team to the playoffs every season, but can't win a single playoff game. That is our future with Hoyer, except that the AFC North already has that team in the Bengals, so we will cut our chances in half. I want something more in the form of a QB that can single handed take over a game against a playoff caliber team and will them to victory...multiple times a season if necessary. While Hoyer can keep this team in any game, against any team, he simply isn't going to be able to win it consistently, or even put one away on a regular basis. We have been through so much over the course of 15 seasons, but believe me when I tell you, .500 will only keep you satisfied for a season, possibly two and you will definitely want more...I simply have an accelerated timeline. (edit I might add, I believe Haslem demands more from his employees than average. Hoyer will not be "enough" for his standards...
It is true that there were 3 balls dropped by defenders, and I might add on three separate drives. Only if all three were caught would it have helped the Raiders chances, but it was an alternate possibility for sure..
Now, moving on to Sunday... The Browns are the superior team and most important they are at home, where CLEVELAND BROWNS STADIUM (no alternate name needed) is a rocking asset to this team. The city is revived and it has become a 12th man advantage once again. I fully expect the Browns to be 5-3 to enter the Thursday night match up with the Bengals. Then we only have two more games to go until a much needed offensive shot in the arm returns from suspension.
I guess thats why their 0-7 and how does Manziel not get a shot after these last 3 performances by Hoyer...I mean think about this...the Browns had 2 struggle w an Oak team that fumbled going in to take the lead or at worse tie it mid 3Q, a crazy play on Spec Teams that resulted in a pick, dropping 3 Ints, fumbling inside their own 10 yd line and committed 8 penalties
Dallas Cowboys quarterback Tony Romo was hurt on a sack with just under eight minutes remaining in the third quarter. The injury forced the Cowboys to insert their second-string quarterback-- Brandon Weeden-- into the game. The pass attempts were Weeden's first as a member of the Cowboys, but set up an interesting confrontation as the starting quarterback on the other side of the ball was former Brown Colt McCoy. McCoy relieved Kirk Cousins in last week's Washington win over the Tennessee Titans. The Monday night start was his first since he was a member of the Browns in 2012. The situation quickly became a trending topic in Cleveland, where football fans were caught up in the action of #WeedenvsMcCoy. Both played fairly well . props to Colt for getting the W .
CLEVELAND (AP) ? Brian Hoyer knew the noise was out there. He knew following his worst start in the NFL that the drumbeat for Johnny Manziel was growing louder. Hoyer knew there was only one way to silence it. He had to win. Hoyer and the Browns rebounded from an embarrassing loss last week in Jacksonville by making just enough plays Sunday in a 23?13 victory over the Oakland Raiders, who remain the NFL?s only winless team. Taking advantage of a turnover caused by a big hit from Cleveland safety Donte Whitner, Hoyer threw a 4-yard touchdown pass early in the fourth quarter to Andrew Hawkins as the Browns (4?3) matched their win total from last season with nine games left and stayed in step with the rest of the AFC Central. For Hoyer, the performance helped fend off those doubters who were screaming for Manziel after the Browns laid an egg and were beaten by the one-win Jaguars. Hoyer claims that he doesn?t pay any attention to what?s being said about him outside Cleveland?s headquarters, but it?s hard not to. ?Being from here, I have enough people who check the news for me,? he said, smiling. Hoyer finished 19 of 28 for 275 yards and no interceptions. The statistics are somewhat misleading because Hoyer threw a few balls that could have been picked by the Raiders (0?7), who have lost 12 in a row taking to last season. He played with his third starting center in three weeks and Hoyer didn?t have Pro Bowl tight end Jordan Cameron in the second half after he went out with a concussion. Hoyer wasn?t spectacular, just steady. ?Good enough to win,? Browns coach Mike Pettine said, assessing Hoyer?s game. ?He made the plays when he needed to make them.? The biggest play was made by Whitner, who stepped up and separated Raiders running back Darren McFadden from the ball late in the third quarter. It landed in the hands of cornerback Joe Haden, who returned it 34 yards. On the next play, Hoyer completed a 32-yard pass to Hawkins and the pair hooked up moments later for a TD to put the Browns ahead 16?6. Ben Tate?s 5-yard TD run made it 23?6, and the Raiders added a TD with 7 seconds left to close the scoring. It was hardly a perfect performance, but the Browns, held to 39 yards rushing on 25 carries and able to convert only 2 of 12 third downs, will take it. ?I think a lot people only picked us to win four games this whole year,? said Hoyer. ?As a team we?re starting to really come together. It doesn?t matter whether the defense shuts them out or whether it?s the offense coming back to win the game at the end, a win?s a win, and in this league, they?re hard to come by.? As the Browns improved to 4?3 for the first time since 2007, here are five more things we learned: CAMERON CONCUSSED: Cameron was hit in the head by Raiders safety Brandian Ross while making a diving 21-yard reception. Ross was given a personal foul for hitting a defenseless receiver. It was a tough blow for Cameron, who had three catches for 40 yards after a couple early drops. Pettine said Cameron will be placed in the league?s program for head injuries. COOL CARR: Yes, it was another loss for the Raiders but rookie quarterback Derek Carr showed enough to think the slide could end soon. Carr completed 34 of 54 passes for 328 yards and a TD. He was sacked three times by Browns linebacker Paul Kruger. Despite another loss for Oakland, Carr came away convinced progress is being made. ?You could tell in the past three games, same result, but it?s a different team,? he said. ?We?re not the same team, it?s not just a flat feeling in the sideline. It?s not just a feeling of, `Oh here we go again.? It?s a different mindset.? WHITNER?S HIT: The Raiders were driving for a potential tying field goal or go-ahead TD when Whitner came to the rescue with his perfectly placed hit on McFadden. ?I just made a play and put my head on the ball,? said Whitner, a Cleveland native. ?I came up with a big play, and we needed that play.? MACK ATTACK: Raiders rookie linebacker Khalil Mack was credited with six tackles, two for losses, and helped stuff the Browns running game. ?He gained the respect of everybody on our team,? Hoyer said. ?That guy is one of the best players we?ve gone against this year and that?s a unanimous in our locker room.? AHEAD: The Browns will host the Tampa Bay Buccaneers (1?6) while the Raiders go to Seattle.
Irish, I think you are largely correct, again barring some incredible elevation of his game Hoyer is destined for another city next year Weeden. It was a fascinating twist of fate that both prior starters for Cleveland faced off in a game. Surreal!
I listened to the CBD show yesterday, and Donovan was pretty upbeat, pointing out that our W counted as much as Pittsburgh's regardless of how decisive it may have been, and it reminded me of the NY Giants from a few years back. they had on of those seasons where nearly every game was in doubt, and won ugly, but hit the playoffs seasoned on staying in and winning close games, and went on to beat the patriots and take home the trophy. Just saying.......... Before the season began we may have expected to start the season with Johnny and struggle mightily, relying on our "D" to overcome the inevitiable rookie QB missteps, to have any shot at a W, while he and his O got familiar with one another and the new system, instead we got Hoyer and an O that hit the ground running. The D took some time to master their new system, and despite the injuries, they have continued to improve, and at this point look like they have it. At the same time, Hoyer and the O have fallen off. Is that a direction, or a result of losing their center, or just teams having more tape of what the team wants to do? Don't know, but our season rests on the answer, and it starts this week. the optimist in me sees the O moving back up, as their new center gets more time with his mates. The pessimist sees Hoyer breakdown in his efficiency and not dealing with the increased pressure the patched up line will allow. We shall see. We have next week's game to work out some of the kinks, without facing an opponent that is playoff hopeful, then it gets real. It is my hope that we show marked improvement vs Tampa, and get back some confidence before the Kittys come to town. Then it's 2 weeks til the Josh Gordon show begins and the playoff run is on. GO BROWNS !!!!!
Great post. Just for the record...The kittys aren't coming to town till late in the season. Next Thursday night's game is in Cincy.
Irish, remember our debate back in April about the abilities of Khalil Mack, and whether or not he would make an immediate impact in this league? Well...based on the comments of Brian Hoyer (which is good enough for me), I win. lol! No seriously, watching that game I couldn't help but think of our discussions about him. Dude was all over the place against our Brownies Sunday. He's a playmaker for Oakland. One of the few they have.....Wasn't going to bring it up, but I had to after I read Hoyer's remarks. lol! all in good fun...
Actually I don't remember a debate per say...I do remember talking about the LBers If you recall, my argument was that Anthony Barr was the best LB in this draft, so if ANY LB were going to be drafted, it should be him. I pointed out holes in Mack's game, which I still stand by. I certainly don't recall ever saying he was going to be a bust, however...based on what I felt back in April and what I said...I'm not sure I was proven wrong in any way. To date: Anthony Barr 54 tackles/43 solo (11th in the NFL), 3 sacks, 3 hurries, 3 tackles for loss, 1 forced fumble, 3 passes defensed Khalil Mack 43 tackles/35 solo(43rd in the NFL), no sacks, 4 hurries, 10 tackles for loss, no forced fumbles, 1 pass defensed Now, these 2 are asked to do different things, Macks entire existence is to attack the line and look to stop the run attack. Barr is asked to be an all around LB setting the edge or dropping into coverage, a more traditional OLB. But, so far, I was right on the money in my assessment that Barr would ultimately be a better player than Mack.
