Actually, the game made me sick on a visceral level. It was tough to watch. I took no joy, no comfort in that loss. Part of me always had held out hope that I was wrong and Hoyer was going to prove to be a legitimate QB -- that the Browns were going to prove they were ready to take the next step. Instead, Hoyer exposed himself for the crap QB he is and the Browns decided to let down big time against one of the worst NFL teams in history. I am disgusted with my team that they allowed one to slip by. That's a painful loss that serves as a reminder -- we still have a long, long way to go.
Didn't you say that Manziel would beat out Hoyer? Should I go back and find that now or can you just drop the arrogance for the evening?
I said -- and continue to believe -- that Manziel is a superior talent to Hoyer. I did (when polled) say Manziel should start the season. If the Browns were mine to control, I would absolutely be starting the rookie from Day 1. I can't control what they do, unfortunately. :-* You can can the crap and shut up, too, for all I care.
Your barking up the wrong tree Sammy. You got an issue with the site, all you got a do is walk out the door. You don't need my help in doing so.
My issue is with those who have some personal agenda. I'm here to talk football. You want to talk football? Let's do it. You want to get personal? I don't have time for that.
Looking back over this thread for the last couple pages you've done a helluva job at making it personal. You want to talk football, get to it.
Please... show me where I made it personal without being attacked first and having to defend myself. My football position is the same it's always been: anyone with a cursory understanding of the game knows Hoyer needs to improve dramatically. Unless that happens, start the rookie.
How is that a personal attack? It's only an attack if you support Hoyer in direct contradiction of observable fact. That's not my problem. Better... I kept discussing football. Worse... a few bad eggs kept attacking me personally.
Figured it would be one of those mornings... I'll come back when people want to talk football intelligently and not piss on each others leg and claim that its raining. That about sums it.
OK, enough with the blame game and name calling... We are ALL Browns fans here, save a few respected posters, and one mostly non-respected poster. We are all mortified by this loss, which is why I chose to wait until today to even write about this post loss. I really didn't want to get into the middle of what was going on last night, but I am hoping it doesn't carry over into this morning.. SAS, while sometimes brash, doesn't normally come out that aggressive, I am assuming there was some consumption involved there. On the other side of the coin, he takes a helluva a beating from the posters around here, maybe lighten up a tad and listen to what he has to say. SAS and I have had our go arounds in the past, but I respect his opinion. He definitely puts a lot of thought into what he has to say and I appreciate his perspective. Now, where the hell do we go from here? The GREATEST news of all...We still have two games to get this ship upright against inferior opponents. One game doesn't fail a team for perpetual doom...as bad as it seems (I've only watched it once so far, but am forcing myself to watch it again tonight), this is still the team that was 3-2 going into it. They should still be 5-3 coming to the midway point before entering a heavier schedule in the second half. So, what do we do now? The good news is, the Bengals are also faltering..the bad news, the Ravens seem to be getting stronger and may take control of the division. So where do we go from here? My thoughts, if the coaching staff believes Manziel still needs time, then he continues to sit against the Raiders. Hoyer has shown the ability to come back from adversity, let's see where that leads. Another debacle like yesterday, and move on to Manziel. We also have to account for the overall bad day from the receiving corps..although Hoyer was abysmal for the most part, he has also gotten a lot of help over the previous 5 games and that certainly was the opposite yesterday. They cannot drop balls when they get good throws, that is on the receivers! It has taken a team effort in 3 wins, and really 3 losses as well. They need to get good play from both sides of the ball at the same time like they did against the Steelers...Most importantly, this line needs to gel and open some holes for the running game. This team thrives off the run and when it isn't working, the offense is going to get shut down. Now that we have all stood back and taken a breath, what are your thoughts?
Sorry stopper, you reap what you sow. It isn't a shot, merely an observation. You frequent these boards, despite not being a Browns fan and for the most part, post in a manner to rattle the fans of the board rather than give insightful information. You and I have actually basically said the same thing on occasions, in which you get into pissing matches and I get debated afterward. That is not a shot, it is merely the difference between respect and rejection. You have the choice in your words... But alas, that single line wasn't even a drop in the message of the post...is that really all you got out of it?
I dont give insightful info or people on here are blinded by their infatuation w the Browns and dont see the whole picture? I have been saying all yr Hoyer has put up #'s cause of Shanahan and his scheme of getting guys wide open...yesterday guys were not wide open and the results were 16-41...Pettine tried 2 get cute vs a desperate team by going against the norm because he felt at any given time they wuld go down the field and score....he wasnt being aggressive he was being arrogant and it cost him
I don't disagree with any of that..and I don't think it was written in a demeaning manner either.. Unfortunately, it is your past that defines you. You have been on the wrong end of too many prodding posts to be taken seriously at this point. When called on something you automatically fall on the defensive, instead of admitting maybe there are a couple of ways to look at something. Again, you can learn and move on, instead of something like: That is the whole response to a post I thought out and really wanted some input on?? Now we have had a few posts based on that small blurb of a response by you. How about re-writing the above post into something like this: "[del]I dont give insightful info or people on here are blinded by their infatuation w the Browns and dont see the whole picture[/del]? [del]I have been saying all yr[/del] I believe Hoyer has put up [del]#'s[/del] numbers because of Shanahan and his scheme of getting guys wide open...yesterday guys were not wide open and the results were 16-41...Pettine tried [del]2[/del] to get cute vs a desperate team by going against the norm because he felt at any given time they would go down the field and score....he wasn't being aggressive he was being arrogant and it cost him" First sentence doesn't even need to be written...unless you have dug a hole and are trying to justify your past. Can you even see the difference? Again, side by side: Yours; Yours presented slightly different; This second post, if given by someone that hasn't instigated several arguments in the past, would be received by the fan base as a valid argument...I don't believe ANYONE would attack you for something like that.
I agree stopper... (that felt weird) Pettine was not good yesterday. I know you think Im a "Hoyerist", but Im not. I'm for the Cleveland Browns playing a winning brand of football, and up until yesterday Brian had been doing that better than any QB we've had around here in years....Clearly they needed a spark yesterday. Hoyer was dreadful all day. He was killing them. The Browns happen to have the ULTIMATE potential "spark" just sitting there on the bench, and Pettine chose to ignore that all day and watch horrible pass after pass from Hoyer skip off the ground...I don't get that at all. The Cleveland coaches get a HUGE F for the effort....
What Irish is saying is the basis of what everyone here has been gettting at. That goes for everyone, not just you stopper, you are not singled out in this. Show respect to others and they will give it in return. If this does not start to be the norm, as requested by the majority of the regular posters here, then there will be changes.
