Also due in part to the fact the Browns have the fewest drops in the League. He's getting more help from his receivers than any QB since 1999. Behind him is Kirk Cousins, so by your logic, Cousins should not be passing very much. However, Cousins is 3rd in the NFL in yards per game (versus Hoyer at 18th). So... Yes... I am saying that they limit Russsell's pass attempts. They are a run first team and utilize their QB in a running capacity as well, so he sees more overall touches. So again... Not really trying to fudge or edit anything... the facts are the facts. But yes, the running game is important. The Browns have -- going back to the hiring of Coach Pettine -- stressed they want to be a run-dominant team that plays good defense. Unless Peyton Manning was suiting up in a #18 brown jersey, the Browns were always going to limit the QB's passes. I don't care if it was Hoyer or Manziel... they're going to run first, ask the QB to make the throws when it matters, scheme a good offense and limit mistakes. If you have a Hoyerection?, you believe he doesn't need to throw because he's the love-child of Brian Sipe and Bernie Kosar. If you understand what the Browns have been doing this whole time, you know they're limiting the number of throws he makes because that's their philosophy. The Browns have been behind in every game but one (the thundering of Pittsburgh). While most team would opt to rely on the pass to try and put points on the board quickly, the Browns decided to stick with the running game -- sometimes heavily -- during their comebacks. Not to say this means they don't trust Hoyer, but they still limited him in those games and the rushing game and good defensive stands deserve as much (if not more) of the credit for the comebacks.
I'm not disagreement with any of your points Irish. I'm just enjoying the ride right now and Hoyer is steering the bus at present for the offense. I'm more worried about our defense and the injuries that have broad-sided us. All in all, new head coach and coaches with a new system on both sides of the ball. Thought that was going to spell doom and gloom for yet another long season. But this one's quite entertaining and right now, I've got a smile from ear to ear and actually have a little hope that the ship is slowly righting itself. Can't say that about too many of our seasons since '99. Only stat that matters is a 'W' and it really doesn't matter who and how they got it and what kind of stats they put up as individuals. The 'W' is the be-all and end-all. This team is once again fun to watch with all their missteps and all their successes.
No, SAS, they're not. Stats are stats and you fit them to your "facts." We've had this conversation before a long time ago and don't really care to re-hash it. I still stand by that stats don't tell the whole tale. Edit: The "your" in "your facts" is intended as a general your. Not pointing fingers SAS, as we all do it.
Hear, Hear!! I'm on the bus with all of you...I think that is the point lost on many of the posters lately! I too am very worried about the defense, I think I have spoken to that effect in the past. The defensive talk just doesn't get thrown in my face nearly as much as the Hoyer worry does. To the defense, we have been tackling MUCH better than early on, but the gaps are worrisome as is the ease of opposing receivers to get a catch. These two avenues, as the season progresses, should tighten up and make this defense more useful in obtaining wins. The fact that we have 3 games coming up against inferior opponents SHOULD help this defense get more up to speed with the coaches strategy and help them going forward into the meat of the schedule. And, just to reiterate, I am not saying that Hoyer also cannot improve and change my opinion over the next 11 games. He may very well do just that. I will amend my opinion on a weekly basis based on what I see in games. All I have to go on right now is the fact he has been in the league 5+ years and this is what he is doing in games...which is what I have based my current opinion from. Manziel, I have even less to go on, but from what I see in his skill set, he should absolutely eventually be able to produce at a higher level. If all things stay status quo, then unfortunately, this team needs to find another QB to groom, imho.
With A.J. Green hobbled by a toe injury and Marvin Jones likewise dealing with a chronic ankle problem that has sent him to a specialist in North Carolina on Tuesday, the Bengals have brought in a former North Carolina wideout to help fill the void. Per a league source, the Bengals have signed receiver Greg Little. A second-round pick in 2011, Little was cut after three seasons with the Browns. He was claimed off waivers by the Raiders in May, cut by the Raiders in late August, and out of football ever since. Little has 155 career catches for 1,821 yards. He also has a history of drops, which is one of the reasons the Bengals were able to sign him today.
If all things stay status quo, this team needs to find another QB to groom? I don't get that. Hoyer is 6-3 as starter and seems to have total command of this football team. The offense is rolling to the tune of 26+ points per game, and we have the most effective deep passing QB in the league....7 tds to 1 int is pretty good, especially considering how many rushing TD's the Browns have tallied.. Not sure how many NFL QB's EVER did any better than that in their first 10 starts....I say 10, because I think he got one start earlier in his career with the Cards... Anyway, he's been very effective since he finally got a chance to show his worth...The best part is, he keeps getting better...To assume , based on skill set, that Johnny will produce at a higher level is pure speculation...Lots of guys come into the league with ideal skill sets, and we all know that it doesn't always translate... Maybe Hoyer IS the next great NFL QB....Nobody saw Brady coming either....He just got an opportunity much earlier in his career than Brian...All we know is, Hoyer is finally getting his chance, and the team is responding. He looks good. The offense looks like one of the leagues best right now in terms of balance....Give the guy some credit. Now I'm sure the dipchit will take this and run around claiming I've annointed Hoyer the greatest thing ever, but that isn't the case...I'm just saying that as of right now, because of Brian Hoyer, this team is absolutely NOT in their usual position of desperately looking for a QB to groom....
Talking trash about me again, eh TD? Them's fightin' words. [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4trn2lJxl00[/video]
actually I should have said 9 starts for Hoyer total....That includes his lone start in Arizona. point is, he's running with his opportunity right now...It doesn't have anything to do with JF pushing him. He has blocked that frenzy out since day 1....It has much more to do with getting a taste last year, and the seeing it get ripped away. These are the Cleveland Browns. Brian Hoyers team...I think he's felt that way since last year's pre-season. Once Weeden got hurt and the coaches went to him over Jason Campbell, I think he's felt like this was his deal...
And this leaves the Browns where if Hoyer is gone via FA...starting at square 1? That shuld help the future
Would you prefer they go with John regardless of the win/loss ratio this season? If John fails, does that help the future?
If I was the Browns and wanted 2 keep Hoyer...I wuld offer him a fair contract in their eyes....if he declines I wuld turn 2 Manziel the following week
Why is this laughable....he says he wants 2 b here...u offer him a fair deal and he declines....therefore he wants $ and culd care less bout being here.
So you burn every bridge of negotiation with every player/agent you deal with all because you want to puff your chest out and show who's boss in a contract negotiation? Not to mention dumping the season and losing the locker room when you make a switch to the guy that couldn't win the job from the guy that is winning games on the field. Some of the stuff you post is priceless. *ROFL*
Point 1: Hoyer is a free agent at year's end, until he signs that contract, I am assuming he will be gone. He has stated publicly, he is from Cleveland and would like to stay in Cleveland, but only if it is as a starter, otherwise, he would go elsewhere in order to be a starter. I don't know any team, Browns included, who guarantees a starting position to a player who isn't established, and even if he starts all 16 games this season, that isn't established. Point 2: Hoyer's starts are against: 49ers (as a member of the Cardinals), ranked #2 overall and #4 against the pass...he finished 19-34 (55.9%) 225 yards, 1 TD and 1 INT, QBR 41.2 LOST Vikings ranked #32 overall and #31 against the pass...he finished 30-54 (55.6%) 321 yards, 3 TDs and 3 INTs, QBR 31.4 WIN Bengals ranked #6 overall and #5 against the pass...(his best game as a pro)he finished 23-38 (65.8%) 269 yards, 2 TDs and 0 INTs, QBR 64.5 WIN Bills (apparently you are one of the people who gives him credit for this win) ranked #20 overall and #4 against the pass 2-4 (50.0%) 25 yards, 0 TDs and 0 INTs left injured early in the second quarter down 0-7 *WIN Steelers ranked ranked #19 (23.2/game, we scored 27) points, #12 overall and #16 against the pass...finished 18-30 (60.0%) 222 yards, 1 TD and 0 INTs, QBR 45.6 LOST Saints ranked #28 (28.2/game, we scored 26) points, #23 overall and #25 against the pass...finished 24-40 (60.0%) 204 yards, 1 TD and 0 INTs, QBR 67.9 WIN Ravens ranked #3 (16.2/game, we scored 21) points, #17 overall and #28 against the pass...finished 19-25 (76%) 290 yards, 1 TD and 0 INTs, QBR 89.8 LOST Titans ranked #23 (25.5/game, we scored 29) points, #20 overall and #22 against the pass...finished 21-37 (56.8%) 291 yards, 3 TD and 1 INT, QBR 72.6 WIN Steelers ranked #19 (23.2/game, we scored 31) points, #12 overall and #16 against the pass...finished 8-17 (47.1%) 217 yards, 1 TD and 0 INTs, QBR 93.6 WIN So, looking at his entire body of work from this 29 year old 6th year player, what jumps out as next great NFL QB? Nothing... Now, watching the actual games and taking stats ENTIRELY out of the equation, give him the eye test on accuracy and what do you grade him? This is the single biggest issue I have with him, I think I have made it crystal clear. He doesn't throw stupid balls which end up as INTs to the defense, however, he doesn't get the ball to OUR receivers in a manner to allow them extra yards at an alarming rate. IF he doesn't improve drastically, then yes, we definitely need to look into an improved QB. He should have EVERY OPPORTUNITY to improve on these stats over the next 11 games. The next 3 are GREAT!! Jaguars 30 overall, 30 passing, 31 points (30.8) Raiders 21 overall, 11 passing, 26 points (26.8) Buccaneers 32 overall, 31 passing, 32 points (34) Doesn't get much worse after that... Bengals 28 overall, 22 passing, 14 points (22.6) Texans 27 overall, 28 passing, 4 points (20) Falcons 31 overall, 29 passing, 29 points (28.3) Bills 11 overall, 26 passing, 8 points (21) Colts 13 overall, 14 passing, 16 points (22.7) Bengals 28 overall, 22 passing, 14 points (22.6) Panthers 26 overall, 20 passing, 24 points (26.2) Ravens 17 overall, 28 passing, 3 points (16.2) This has got to be the easiest schedule on an offense/QB in the entire NFL. They SHOULD be scoring 26+ points per game and in reality that number should grow as the season progresses. Statistically, yes, but in reality it could be even better! Many of the receivers he has thrown to have been so wide open there is a statistical probability a catch would be made, however, they had to make adjustments (some major) which cost them yardage on multiple plays. Is that to be attributed to Hoyer that they were so wide open, or the running game which statistically ranks top 5 in the league across the board causing teams to play the run? 1 INT is Hoyer's most prominent statistic!! I love the fact this guy doesn't make stupid decisions. It is his most endearing quality! I love how he protects the ball and throws it away instead of taking coverage sacks and/or forcing throws. However...he hasn't really stretched many plays out. He reads a rather quick progression of targets, then throws the ball away rather quickly as well. This has saved the team from sacks, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind. It has also cost the team first downs, again no doubt in my mind. The 7 TDs, you can take into account the rushing totals, for certain...but at the end of the day it is not a stat to be proud of in any sense. 7 TDs in 5 games ranks tied for 23rd in the NFL...How many of the missed first downs could have led to more points? The Browns lead the entire NFL in rushing points scored, but the team total drops to 13th when adding in passing to the overall computation, again, settling for average is not what I am looking to do. Absolutely, 100% correct!! This is pure speculation on my part. I have nothing, absolutely ZERO to back up this thought process. However, if he isn't showing this coaching staff by the end of this season that he DOES possess the qualities it takes to be above and beyond average (Hoyer), then that is why I say this team is in need of finding another QB to groom. Well, maybe he is TD..No one knows anything for a certainty. Maybe he will after 5+ seasons and 8 starts become more accurate in his passing. I certainly hope he does! I am not a glutton for punishment, I would very much like Hoyer to emerge a perennial top 5 QB that can lead this team consistently. I am just a realist in thinking at the age of 29, how much better is he really going to get? And I am not as sold as you are...That's all TD I want a QB that when the running game isn't chugging along, he can take over and use his God given abilities to will the offense to victory. He hasn't had to do that to this point. Quite frankly the defenses haven't done enough to stop our running game. Even during our comebacks, the run game was still a prominent part of those comebacks. If he ISN'T that QB, whether it is because of his skill set or because he is leaving at year end...then we very much ARE in that position. Then we move on to the next question, is Manziel the next man up or are we still searching? The lucky thing for this coaching staff is that they are doing just enough to keep the team on a winning edge. If that were to disappear, then and only then will the question be asked.
Im pumping my chest cause I offered 1 of my players a fair contract and HE turned it down. I think it wuld work in favor of the locker room....they wuld know this is the guy that we can go 2 war w every Sunday for the future and not a guy that may not even b here after the yr cause he wuldnt accept a fair offer...if Manziel fails then at least u still have FA and the draft to make a change
Absolutely hilarious... The bold part of your posting is your comedic genius. You take a franchise that is full of energy and optimism and piss all over it by benching the starting QB, on a winning team, a team that has been wanting a season like this in favor of a player that has done nothing at the NFL level. You would immediately lose the locker room by showing that you are not willing to negotiate and that you do not care what the outcome of the games are. All you are concerned with is bullying a player into signing a deal. Come on stopper, at this point I think you are just posting this for the lulz (and it's working).
Personally Tim, I don't believe for a second the starting position in 2014 will have any decisions made based on a contract negotiation. What I do believe is if/when Manziel passes Hoyer as a more effective option, then IF and ONLY IF the Browns begin losing...they would make the change based on that. Right now Hoyer is being evaluated as a player that isn't losing them games...that is a plus on one side of the coin, but if he is called upon to do more at some point and doesn't (I.E. unable to close out games with a lead by completing a pass for a first down, which has already happened twice out of 5 games) then the decision could very easily come down to, if you aren't going to be here in 2015, then we need to start getting the guy who is, ready. Manziel isn't going any where...That is a forgone conclusion, so either Hoyer wants to stay and would accept a reasonable contract offer (which may not even be possible to evaluate before the end of the season) or you must move on. This front office is NOT going to give him a guarantee that he is the starter going forward though. They have made it abundantly clear (see Terrance West) that the best player, whether in game or practice will be starting for this team on a week to week basis and re-evaluated on a week to week basis.
Nice post and I appreciate what you are saying....But go alllll the way back to point 1....Why would you assume Hoyer is gone at years end? Why not assume that the Browns will be eager to sign him? Why not assume he would LOVE to stay in Cleveland? It's all up to how well he plays this year...I don't blame the Browns one bit for taking the "lets wait and see" approach....The better he plays, the better for both parties involved....and as for Johnny. I don't care...If Hoyer plays lights out and firmly establishes himself as the man in Cleveland, the Browns will have to figure something out with Johnny..
