It isn't all the in between game management that I have a problem with... It is these two drives: Week one; Last possession of the game for the Browns Cleveland Browns at 01:53 1-10-CLE20 (1:53) B.Hoyer sacked at CLE 14 for -6 yards (C.Heyward). 2-16-CLE14 (1:08) (Shotgun) B.Hoyer pass incomplete short left to A.Hawkins (W.Gay). 3-16-CLE14 (1:04) (Shotgun) B.Hoyer pass short right to A.Hawkins to CLE 9 for -5 yards (W.Gay). 4-21-CLE9 59) (Punt formation) S.Lanning punts 48 yards to PIT 43, Center-C.Yount, downed by CLE-T.Carder. Left the ball at the Steelers 43 yard line with :59 seconds remaining and the Steelers only realistically needing 25 yards for a decent FG attempt to win the game. Ultimately, the defense gave up 33 yards and in turn gave the game to the Steelers. Week three; Last possession of the game for the Browns Cleveland Browns at 02:19 1-10-CLE7 (2:19) I.Crowell right tackle to CLE 12 for 5 yards (C.Mosley; C.Upshaw). 2-5-CLE12 (2:13) I.Crowell left tackle to CLE 10 for -2 yards (D.Tyson). 3-7-CLE10 (2:09) (Shotgun) B.Hoyer pass incomplete short left to A.Hawkins. 4-7-CLE10 (2:05) (Punt formation) S.Lanning punts 40 yards to 50, Center-C.Yount, fair catch by J.Jones. Left the ball at the 50 yard line with 1:58 left on the clock and the Ravens only realistically needing 18 yards for a winning FG. The defense ultimately gave up 37 for the easy game winner as time expired. TWO drives in 2 of the first three games gained -8 yards to put away regulation/drive for the game winning FG (Steelers) and keep the Ravens off the field for their game winner... Both were errant throws by Hoyer to take over the game clock. BOTH drives, if he simply got a first down, meant a possible win in PBurgh and a sure win in Cleveland against another AFC North foe. Steelers, it was a bad throw on 2nd down and a throw backwards on 3rd, AFTER taking a sack on first to set up 2nd a long, drive was MINUS 11 yards. Ravens it was a throw past the sticks on a very manageable 3rd and 7, but on the receivers back side, who luckily reached back far enough to not allow the defense to catch it inside the 15 yard line. This is the clutch I am talking about with franchise QBs...The Mannings, Brees and Brady's of the world make those drives count, then simply kneel to take a win or at least take it into overtime.
I'm not entirely sure why you act like such a hateful, irritable person so often. I assume all the misdirected anger and obviously perceived (but non-existent) slights are due to something deeper... jealousy, maybe? The fact is, you knuckleheads who support Hoyer blindly (as you did with Weeden, McCoy, Anderson, etc.) fail to ever build a substantive argument when we have these discussions. When I call Hoyer a "back-up", it's because he was / is a back-up. When you say he's a back-up only because he couldn't unseat Tom Brady, it only makes you look more foolish and more ridiculous than usual. Which again proves my point... he was an injury replacement. This is as offensive and in poor taste as I've seen in a while. You should be ashamed. I'm embarrassed for you. Again, the vendetta thing is weird. However, everything I posted was accurate. Your inability to comprehend or understand doesn't make it less so. Look, if you're going to continue to be an incorrigible douche, let's just not go back and forth over anything. Quite frankly, I'm appalled at the callous comments above regarding the mentally disabled. That lack of disrespect to an entire group of people (while certainly not out of character for you) just furthers my desire to ignore most -- if not all -- things you post/say.
You misunderstand... I'm not saying take 10 - 15 snaps at the QB position. I thought I put a few different examples of ways he could contribute in the post? To bluez's point, if he's the holder on FG tries and extra points, that's 3 - 5 per game right there. A few times when he does stand in at QB (3 - 5) and then other times when he's on the field (lined up at wide receiver, tailback, etc.) to round out the next 3 - 5 snaps. I understand not wanting to disrupt the "flow" -- although I do think too much emphasis is put on that -- but I also think that a shot of Manziel into the offense and special teams would do wonders. I also thought I put this in a previous post as well (to Raven-R-1, maybe?) that if Hoyer gives us the best chance to win, he should remain the starter. I -- like the Browns' F/O -- believe Manziel was drafted to be the future of the franchise and as such, I would like to see what we've got in him. If the incumbent is playing well enough not to lose his job, it's up to the offensive coordinator to get Manziel involved in the game somehow to test that theory out.
Not in least. My point was in the Patriots scenario, SAS said he couldn't even beat out M. Guitierez or K. O'Connell. And that, Sir, was a blatant lie. Hoyer's time with new England was 2009, 2010 and 2012. He was the 2nd string QB in all three of those years and Guitierez and O'Connell were released prior to the season 2009.
Look all I want is for the best 11 on either side of the ball lining up and playing every Sunday as that, imho, will give us a better chance to get a win. AGAIN, imho, Manziel has a better set of tools than does Hoyer. If he is not yet caught up to Hoyer, then by all means, let him percolate on the sidelines. I leave that in the able hands of the coaching staff. But staying the course, I simply don't know why any of you believe all of a sudden Hoyer will start doing things he hasn't been able to do in the 5+ years leading us to this very moment. I am not talking about leadership and what not, he is exemplary in that capacity. I am talking about his arm strength, accuracy and mobility. Three things of vital importance and things I think he lacks somewhat. I will give you three examples of things I think he does extraordinary in: Reading the field Very quick release (which makes up for some of his arm strength) the obvious is his leadership ability I am not blind that he has some redeeming qualities, it's just that he is average at best...
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/20140...ameinfo|contentId:0ap3000000398074&tab=videos U mean like this throw Irish or shuld i say punt?
BEREA, Ohio?Joe Haden has given up some big plays thus far this season. One of the more glaring plays was the 32-yard pass from Joe Flacco to Steve Smith that set up the Ravens game-winning field goal. Secondary coach Jeff Hafley was asked if Haden is struggling in this defensive system. ?It?s kind of hard to say,? Hafley said. ?This is the first time I?ve seen him play in our system, and this is what we keep talking about. Joe?s playing man coverage or some form of man coverage. ?He?s in for 69 snaps,? he said. ?He?s playing man for just about every one of those snaps. OK? For 64 plays, he?s taking away the best receiver on the other team. What everybody?s seeing is three balls caught here and there. Unfortunately, they haven?t been in very good times. Joe will tell you he needs to make those plays. We?ll tell you he needs to make those plays. ?He holds himself accountable,? Hafley continued. ?We hold him accountable, but to say he?s not playing like everybody thinks he should, I don?t want to say that just yet. I think he?s doing some really, really good things, but we?ve got to hold him accountable.? Mike Pettine said on Monday that Haden has to play better. ?He?s played well at times, but as you can see, at some inopportune times he?s not played well,? Pettine said. ?I think he?ll admit that, as well. That?s what we talk about. The great ones are going to make big plays when it?s needs, and I think that?s one area where Joe will look to improve.? Hafley said he thinks Haden will respond to Pettine?s challenge. ?I do because I think if you ask Joe, Joe believes he?s a great player,? Hafley said. ?I believe he?s a great player, and Joe believes that he needs to make those plays, just like we do. I?ll take it every time. Put him in with the game on the line, and Joe Haden will make the play. I have not lost one bit of confidence in that at all.? Notebook Will Tate Start?: RB Ben Tate (knee), OL John Greco, DL John Hughes and DL Calvin Barnett were on the stationary bikes during the part of practice open to the media. Pettine mentioned that he wasn?t sure that Tate would be ready for when the team plays the Titans. RB Isaiah Crowell took reps with the first team during the portion of practice open to the media. However, Pettine said RB Coach Wilbert Montgomery rotates the backs around and nothing should be read into it. Montgomery was asked if Tate would be the starter when he returns. ?We brought him in to be the starting running back.? Proud Papa: LB Craig Robertson was not at practice Wednesday and Pettine said for good reason that Robertson ?welcomed an addition to the family.? Shaw Ill: Practice squad QB Connor Shaw was not at practice due to an illness, according to Pettine. Still Here: LS Christian Yount was at practice on Wednesday. Pettine was asked about the long snapper and said they would evaluate the position during the bye week. ?It?s still being evaluated,? Pettine said. ?(Special teams coach) Chris (Tabor) challenged him.? Pettine did say the team was bringing in a couple of guys to work out. ?It?s a performance based position.? Stat Change: On the play that QB Brian Hoyer was tackled behind the line of scrimmage against the Ravens and was credited with a sack was changed to a rush by Hoyer. That was the only sack of the game for the Ravens, so with the change, the Browns gave up no sacks last week and only four on the season. Both Ways: OL Karim Barton practiced with the defensive line early in Wednesday?s practice during individual drills. He then switched back to the offense?s brown jerseys and went back with the offensive line. Full Go: Despite it being the bye week, the Browns were in full pads for Wednesday?s practice. The Browns are scheduled to practice Thursday morning and then be off until resuming practice next Tuesday in preparation to play the Titans in Nashville on Oct. 5.
Silly me I thought the Offensive performances we have seen, put the Johnny Now discussion to rest. Truly foolish on my part. I doubt the Browns front office is tracking our comments, so I will bow out of it now. The coaches will do what they do, and the team will do what they do. Whatever they choose to do, I'm right there with them all the way. GO BROWNS !!!!!
Bluez I really liked your assesment of our immediate opportunity with the next 5 games. I'm just the kind of Browns fan who will dream of taking all 5, and inserting ourselves into the playoff race, making for the first meaningful November in recent memory. I hope that plays out, and I believe it isn't a "huge" leap of faith to believe that, but there needs to be progress in a number of areas to make that possible. While the most popular focus is at QB, but I think the D is the area of greatest opportunity, followed by Special teams. I could live with the O's performance holding. If we can continue to hit the same points per game offensively, and make the kind of improvements on D I believe the talent level should achieve, I like our chances. It's going to be a long couple of weeks waiting to see if those hopes stay alive. It's the best year to be a Browns fan in a while, and I am excited.
kendawg, I think the only reason the QB is the most popular focus is because that is where we have a player that was assessed going into the draft as an improvement at the position. If you can improve the most important position, then you will make progress. However, I agree 100% that this defense is under-performing at such a rate that if the offense stayed par for the course over the next 5 games, the defense would help this team win at least 4 of those 5 games. The only offense that scares me is the Steelers run game. Going into the next tier of the schedule after that 5 game stretch, the Browns NEED to be 5-3 or they could struggle with the Bengals, Texans, Falcons, Colts, Bengals again, Panthers and Ravens to close out the season..after this 5 games stretch of the last 8 games remaining on the schedule, the Bills are the only team that I think the Browns are currently playing better than, even with their 2-1 record... As easy as this next 5 game stretch is... the final 7 teams (8 games) are currently 14-7 and you have the 3-0 Bengals twice.. This defense needs to get their act together over this bye week.
A toast for Joe Haden When it comes to listing the so-called shutdown cornerbacks in the National Football League, Joe Haden?s name invariably lands among the top five. Apparently those who put together such a list haven?t been paying close attention to the talents of the Browns cornerback. If they had, they would notice he isn?t anywhere near shutdown status. Haden has been singed so many times last season and the first three games of this season, it?s surprising he has not been crowned with the sobriquet that hounded Elvis Patterson when he played with the New York Giants in the mid-1980s. Giants coach Bill Parcells saw Patterson burned so many times in his four-year career in New York, he took to calling him ?Toast.? That nickname became so popular, it is now pinned on those NFL cornerbacks who play similarly to Patterson. Blow enough assignments, fail to come through with a big play on a consistent basis when needed and you risk being called ?Toast.? Haden, who played a more formidable corner in his first few seasons, appears to have slipped. His reputation as an elite cornerback, for some reason, has not taken much of a hit. But there is no question his so-called upside is on a major downslide. He longer can be trusted to shut down the opposition?s top wide receiver. He?s only 25 years old and just approaching the peak of his career. He should be getting better. That, however, has not been the case. Far from it, in fact. He had six interceptions in his rookie season in 2010 and everyone forecast a brilliant future. He has picked off just seven passes since then and has not been solid when attempting to shut down the opponent?s key receiver This season, for example, leading Pittsburgh receiver Antonio Brown torched him with five receptions for 116 yards and a touchdown as the Steelers raced to a 24-point halftime lead in the season opener. In the loss to Baltimore last Sunday, Haden was tasked with shutting down Steve Smith, a man 10 years younger and not nearly as quick or fast. Smith caught five passes for 101 yards, including a clutch 32-yarder over Haden in the final minute that set up the winning field goal. Those are not the kinds of performances one expects out of a so-called shutdown cornerback, the definition of which means someone who actually shuts down the opposition. The fact strong safety Donte Whitner has been playing more coverage safety than box safety might be construed by some as a lack of faith by the coaching staff in the cornerbacks. One can understand that lack of faith for rookie Justin Gilbert. But Haden? Maybe the lack of a pass rush this season has led to extra pressure on the secondary, but shutdown corners are still expected to do their job no matter what happens up front. There are no excuses for elite players who fail to do their job. The Cleveland defense, especially among the front seven, has struggled mightily in the first three games and the sloppy performance of the secondary hasn?t helped. Someone back there needs to take charge and start making plays. The true measure of respect for an NFL cornerback is the number of times he is thrown at. Opposing quarterbacks no longer avoid Haden. Instead, they target him now that they see he's not much of a threat. Right now, he needs to be the man because no one else is stepping up. He has to start playing like everyone believes he can or risk losing that shutdown status and start preparing to be called what Elvis Patterson was all those years ago.
Who wrote that bluez? Just out of curiosity, did he also write one about all the other struggling CBs in the NFL with the rules now being enforced tho their fullest degree this season. It makes it nearly impossible to play CB to the fullest potential. Not defending Joe, he needs to do a hell of a lot better, but every "shut down" CB in this league is struggling right now.
BEREA, Ohio? The Browns are giving up over 150 yards a game against the run and are making a concerted effort to address it during the bye week. It starts up front with the defensive line with starters Ahtyba Rubin, Phil Taylor and Desmond Bryant. Defensive line coach Anthony Weaver said it?s the big plays that are hurting the Browns the most. ?I just think it takes all 11 to be committed to it,? Weaver said. ?It?s just gash running plays that are hurting us right now. For most of the game, we?re playing the running game well. Then, you?ll see a 30-yarder or a 25-yarder. Those are the ones we have to stop. If we can stop those, our run defense will be right where we want it to be.? Weaver was asked if there was any consideration of switching Taylor to nose tackle and Rubin to defensive end. ?I don?t think so,? Weaver said. ?I think those guys are playing well. Again, the stats don?t always tell the whole story. Those guys are rolling off the ball. They?re using their hands. Yeah, they may not have five sacks or a million tackles, but they?re creating opportunities for other guys. ?Would I like the sacks to go up and all of those things? Of course, any D-line coach would, but at the end of the day, all you want is your guys to go out there, give it their absolute best effort and make plays when they present themselves,? he said. ?Right now, we?ve just got to wait for their plays to come.? Notebook Getting Healthy: OL John Greco and DL John Hughes were on the field during the part of practice the media was able to watch. The only players on the stationary bikes were RB Ben Tate (knee) and DL Calvin Barnett (undisclosed). Barnett is on the practice squad. LB Craig Robertson was back at practice after missing Wednesday?s practice for the birth of his daughter. Practice squad QB Connor Shaw was back at practice after missing Wednesday due to an illness. They?re Off: The Browns finished practice in the late morning Thursday and many of the players were quickly seen exiting for the parking lot to begin their long weekend off from football. Pettine said he and his fellow coaches addressed the team before dismissing the team. ?We want to make sure that we come back fresh and focused,? Pettine said. ?At the same time, you hate dwelling on the negative, but we?ve very aware of the scrutiny that NFL players are under. We?re more under ? coaches and players ? more under a microscope than most. ?They represent not just themselves, but their families and the Cleveland Browns ? their teammates ? when they?re out of the building,? he said. ?I just kept stressing it to them. Surround yourself with good people. Make good choices. It?s a good group, and I think that the time off will be well spent. I?m certain they?re going to come back fresh and focused.? QB Johnny Manziel has not been on TMZ and other media outlets since before he arrived for training camp. He?s expected to return to Texas for the Texas A & M/Arkansas football game this weekend. Pettine was asked if he had any specific message for Manziel. ?No. Nothing special,? Pettine said. ?The position coaches handle that just as far as we want to know, ?Hey, where are you going to be? What are you up to? To me, it?s?we?ll check in with our guys over the time, but we didn?t treat him any different.? A team spokesman said Manziel had already left the locker room before the media was permitted to enter after practice. The NFL has a sign in each locker room regarding the NFL?s personal conduct policy that has at the top ?YOUR OFF FIELD CONDUCT MATTERS?. Ironically, the sign is hanging right next to Manziel?s locker in the Browns? locker room. Backup Holder: Pettine was asked if the coaches have thought about using Manziel as the holder to try and slow down the opposing rush and give team?s something else to prepare for. ?Actually, ?Tabs? (special teams coordinator Chris Tabor) was working some other guys at holder today,? Pettine said. ?He?ll circle back to that every once in a while, but we didn?t use Manziel. It was actually (Brian) Hoyer who?s done it before and (Jim) Leonhard who?s the personal protector on the punt as well.? Pettine said they?re not looking to replace P Spencer Lanning. ?No. It?s just something? Chris will circle back every once in a while just to make sure those guys get reps just in case something happens in a game.?
Rich Passan . don't shoot the messenger . truth hurts sometimes . get it together Haden & Company ! the offense is pulling its weight . we should be could be 3-0 right now if we had a defense and special teams .
