Morning Fellow lounge houndz, *HI* I honestly don't' get why everyone is clamoring for JF to get his shot, and not looking at the fact that Pettine's Defense is thirty phuqing first(31) in the league right now :[ It's phuqing embarrassing. Here is a roster that supposedly got more talented on the defensive side of the ball and yet they are stinking it up out there. The defense has been gashed for over 150yd/game on the ground and still can't put teams away when we have the lead. I get that our secondary has been torched at the worst times. I'm not sure if it's more related to the stricter enforcement of older rules, or that the players just haven't fully bought into and adopted the new defense. Hoyer may not be the long term solution at QB, but what has Johnny "what's my next trademark" done to take the job away from him. Hoyer while not that so-called "franchise" signal caller has done an admiral job of leading this team. I can agree with the sentiment of be careful what you wish for. This team may not be perennial SB contenders with Hoyer under center and 7-10 win seasons may be all we get from him. Also ask your selves this even if JF is that QB we've all been waiting for, how many championships will the 31st ranked defense win us?
PS Special teams needs a ton of work as well. Like how about playing an O-lineman, TE or FB out on the end of the line instead of Billy "OLE" Winn on the FG. The dude didn't even try to block the guy rushing from the outside on Cundiff's blocked kick. *ROSE* *WALL* *REF*
Great points Crex.. This defense needs to do better as a whole for sure. I've already touched on my concerns of the NFL's new commitment to upholding pass interference calls. They are essentially giving receivers free shots at where they want to set their routes. These guys MUST adjust and stop giving up these huge gains. I think the day of press corners are numbered unless they regress. We have to figure out an effective pass defense in short order. That is why I am happy for the bye coming early. We have a chance to get a jump on the league in that respect. Let's see what these coaches are made of!!
I only meant it from your comment/title of your latest piece, which was very good by the way. "Be careful what you wish for..." The rest is all on me...
Couple of issues with the Johnny now idea. #1 I agree with TD, this is a win now league, and anyone who believes Johnny is disagreeing with the guys who see him and Hoyer daily. #2 we are 3 games into the season, and "this year" lies before us not behind. #3 this whole "franchise QB" idea cracks me up, guys who say Hoyer isn't a franchise QB, aren't talking about a guy who would rank 10th or worse, they are talking about a top ten guy, Well there are 32 teams and only 10 have a guy in the top 10. On top of that, how can anyone rank Johnny more than a long shot top ten guy. He was unable to beat out Hoyer, a alledged game manager, hasn't grasped the playbook, doesn't show maturity, and his style of play lends itself to injury. How can anyone look at that and think he should be out there right now? I don't dislike Johnny, but I do resent his annointment as the second coming by the media. Regardless of how good he was in college, he hasn't shown the ability, grasp, or maturity to "earn" playing time yet. This goes back to the WIN NOW aspect. Any coach, especially one in Cleveland who can see the handwriting on the wall, knows he has to win as many games as he can, or he is gone. Our door is on a swivel. Then the argument that Hoyer "failed" to pull the rabbit out of the hat a second week in a row, is evidence that he cannot be the starter........... Really...... He isn't a one man team, and this game was a failure on many aspects, but frankly Hoyer wasn't one of them. Period.
The Morning Kickoff ? Taking stock: The first three games of the Mike Pettine era have been decided on the last play, the next-to-last play, and the last play. The Browns lost to Pittsburgh coach Mike Tomlin (career record: 78-45) and quarterback Ben Roethlisberger (105-51) by three points. The Browns beat New Orleans coach Sean Payton (79-43) and quarterback Drew Brees (116-80) by two points. The Browns lost to Baltimore coach John Harbaugh (73-39) and quarterback Joe Flacco (73-39) by two points. ?We don?t like where we are,? Pettine said Monday. ?We don?t like sitting ? 1-2 is 1-2. Last place in the division is last place. There?s no asterisk next to what we are, but there are some positives to take out of where we are.? Despite losing to Roethlisberger for the 18th time in 19 games ? despite losing to Flacco for the 12th time in 13 games ? I don?t think the sky is falling on the Browns. As they reach an early bye in their schedule, I see five reasons to be encouraged ? no, really encouraged -- by the start of this season. 1. They can score. This can?t be overstated. Their 74 points rank 10th in the league in scoring. That?s their best point total through the first three games since they scored 82 in 2007 ? their last good offensive team. And the offense has accounted for all the points except for a Pick 6 by Tashaun Gipson. The offense has been a huge surprise because it has been good without Pro Bowl receiver Josh Gordon for three games (and seven more to come), Pro Bowl tight end Jordan Cameron for one game, and starting running back Ben Tate for two games. The running game, which is the foundation of the Kyle Shanahan offense, has been entrusted to rookies Terrance West and Isaiah Crowell in the absence of Tate. The receiving corps is made up of three undrafted players, a fifth-round pick and a waiver pickup. After the Browns drafted quarterback Johnny Manziel in May, the prevalent opinion was that Brian Hoyer?s leash was so short, he probably would be yanked after an 0-3 start. Not even close. Today, Hoyer ranks 10th among starting quarterbacks with a passer rating of 97.5. He has not thrown an interception since his first start a year ago in Game 3. Consequently, the Browns are the only team in the NFL to not commit an offensive turnover. I repeat: The Browns are the only team to not commit an offensive turnover. ?I think our offense has overachieved to date,? Pettine said. 2. The coaches make halftime adjustments. The Browns have outscored opponents in the third quarter, 35-14. That?s their best quarter in terms of point differential. It shows that their coaches can make halftime adjustments. Since 1999, the Browns have outscored opponents in the third quarter in only two seasons. Those were the only seasons the Browns had winning records ? 2002, when they made the playoffs at 9-7, and 2007, when they went 10-6 and missed the postseason on tie-breakers. 3. They project an air of confidence. ?We feel that we can compete with anybody in this league ? and not compete with ? beat anybody in this league,? Pettine said. ?And that?s important that our guys have that confidence coming out of the bye.? I attribute this attitude to Hoyer because every team ? every team ? takes its cue from its quarterback. If the team doesn?t believe in its quarterback, it is evident. And it is doomed. Last year, Hoyer rescued the early part of the season by taking over a deflated 0-2 team and winning on the road. Then he won against Cincinnati. Very quickly, Hoyer changed the attitude in the locker room and injected a feeling of confidence on both sides of the ball. After a rocky preseason, he has done that again. ?I think a big deal is made of the preseason,? Hoyer said. ?There were a lot of interchangeable parts, myself included. That?s going to happen, but when you really get to get into game-planning, focusing on who?s going to be out there playing, things really start to come together. I think that?s why you see, obviously, a totally different type of offense now than it was in the preseason. ?I think we?ve proven to ourselves that we can play with anyone.? 4. The schedule lightens up. After the bye, the Browns play at Tennessee (1-2), home against Pittsburgh (2-1), at Jacksonville (0-3), and home against Oakland (0-3) and Tampa Bay (0-3). Is a five-bagger out of the question? Would you take four out of five? That would position the Browns at 5-3 at the halfway point. Take that? 5. The return of J.G. If he stays clean and passes up to 20 drug tests over the next two months, Gordon will be eligible to return for the Nov. 23 game in Atlanta. Now, do the math. If the Browns take care of business over their next five games and, say, win four to go to 5-3, they would then have games against Cincinnati and Houston before Gordon?s return. Let?s just say they lose them both and are at 5-5 when Gordon returns to the active status. What would a healthy, fresh, supremely-motivated Gordon mean to the team over the final six games? So, you see, all is not lost in this young Browns season. I would say they have survived the worst.
I agree, this was a fail on all three aspects.. My point is the top QBs in the NFL win despite what the other two aspects accomplish. Hoyer will keep this team close enough in every contest. With any help, we can get some wins. The top QBs don't rely on the others, they make it happen and when they need a 3rd down or TD, they make plays, they don't throw it on their receivers back shoulder or run 8 yards past the line of scrimmage, THEN throw it for a penalty instead of a TD... Watch the 3 games again...IF Manziel can only match the positive pass plays that Hoyer did...now look beyond to the 3rd down plays we didn't convert. Over these 3 games, I can count at least 7 that Manziel could have converted with his legs...That could have meant the difference between 1-2 and 3-0 in these close games.
Agreed, however I can point to the defense and special teams and say if they had done their jobs on a half dozen plays, we could also be 3-0.
Really? Because Manning has had some of the worst complimentary teams of any QB in his career and he has never missed the playoffs... Drew Brees ...ditto...He has dealt with some of the worst defenses in the league and still win consistently..since taking over the Saints in 2006 he has made the playoffs 5 out of 8 seasons and has won at least 1 playoff game in each of those seasons. This is the type of player I am looking for at the position.
Rethought this post; You only need TWO (2); o Haden getting torched by Antonio Brown putting the Steelers in FG range late 4th Qtr. o Cundiff's blocked FG. If those TWO PHUQUING PLAYS went the other way . . . we're 3-0. And if my Aunt had testicles, she would be my Uncle.
I lone it Bluez. Couldn't agree more, and on top of that, while I don't generally like early byes, this isn't a bad time to re-group, and given you 2nd point (these coaches adjust), it could be pivotal. I think the " the Johnny to the rescue " talk has simmered down, so like any team in the bye, they will look at what has gone well and what has gone wrong, and if the evidence we've seen so far is any indication, will make the adjustments. I hope this means we work heavily with the D, both front and back ends. We simply cannot lay this on the O to outscore our opponents (can you even imagine that would be where we are, given the emphasis and the QB competition as we began camp). Special teams has to become more of a factor, and boy do we miss Dawson. Much dredit to the rookies, West, Crowell, Gabriel, Gilbert. I know the later two haven't been standouts, but they have contributed, and I gotta believe they will get some encouragement and direction during the bye, to strengthen their games. I actually like both, and can't possibly not like what CroWest are doing for us. For those of us who begged to become "competitive", well congratulations, we are. Now on to winning. Gotta like the schedule in the immediate future, but remember each of those teams are looking and the game with Cleveland as their "opportunity" game too. It's still NOW, NOW, NOW, each week, and beating the Saints is much like losing to the Jags, so no guarantees, but your scenario of arriving at 5 and 3 is not just appealing, but feels like reality, the way our team has grown. Lots to like on this team, and I would put a lot of praise on two areas in particular: #1 Hoyer, and #2 the O line. Those rookie RBs are finding lanes, and Hoyer is getting time, which IMO is all about the line play. Nice job. Then therre is the Coaching staff. For this team, with essentially a new QB, a new OC, a new DC, new systems all around to be playing even this well 3 games in impresses me. Like the adjustments too. Pettine feels like the Rock upon which this team anchors, including calling himself and his staff out for their failures this past week. Gotta say he had me a little worried with his handling (waffling) on the QB gig, but in the end did waht I thought was the right thing, and I now think his thinly veiled mentions of Johnny are mostly about keeping his opponents guessing, not driven by pressure to get the shiny new ornament on the tree. I'm liking this Browns team. The Browns team has always had my heart, but there have been more than a few teams we fielded that I didn't like, so this is refreshing, and hopeful. I would love to think we have our coach for the next ten years. GO BROWNS !!! WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF
And they both had top notch offenses. And with more than one WR who could be a WR1 on just about any team.
BEREA, Ohio -- Receiver Josh Gordon wasted no time returning to the Browns facility after he was reinstated Friday afternoon. He came to the Berea complex that afternoon and met with Browns general manager Ray Farmer, who spelled out Gordon's plan for the next eight weeks. "I talked with him briefly,'' said coach Mike Pettine. "It really wasn't a formal meeting, he's had more of those with Ray. It's tough for me ? I'll be very much in the loop as far as our plans with Josh. Again, I did have a good visit with him but that really does fall more on Ray and being the head coach I'm tasked to deal with the guys that are available to play. But we'll get a plan in place for him and be ready to move forward." With Gordon's drug suspension being reduced from at least 16 games to 10, he's eligible play in the final six games of the season, beginning Nov. 23 in Atlanta. But until the week leading up to the game, he can't practice with the team. He can lift and attend meetings at the Browns facility, but can't be at the games on Sunday. "As an organization, (when) you have a guy who's out for the year all of a sudden you have a chance to get him back at the end it's a big plus for us,'' said Pettine. "A player of his ability, but at the same time, I think it's important that we're not just talking about Josh Gordon the player; we're talking about the person and making sure that we're well aware of the human element here.'' Gordon, who's in Stage Three of the NFL's substance abuse program, will be drug-tested frequently and must meet all the conditions of his individualized plan. He's also on 12 months probation for his DWI conviction and had his license suspended, so he'll have to be extra careful over the next two months to get back on the field. "It's not just 'hey, we have a good player back for six games,''' said Pettine. "We talk about building long-term sustained success here and making sure that we're getting him everything he needs is just as big a part of it as what he can do on the field for us."
BEREA, Ohio ? There's never a good time to have a bad game in the NFL. But a dodgy performance heading into a bye week can make for unsettling days for a player such as embattled long-snapper Christian Yount. At least one shaky snap in each of the first three games has Browns coaches contemplating change at arguably the most disposable position. The Browns botched a pair of fourth-quarter field goals Sunday in the 23-21 loss to the Ravens at FirstEnergy Stadium. Yount admitted his snap was low on Billy Cundiff's 50-yard kick that hit the left upright. Coach Mike Pettine sounded as if Yount's snap on the 36-yarder might also have factored into the attempt being blocked. Pettine discussed the issue with special teams coach Chris Tabor on Monday morning. They have more than a week to decide on Yount's fate. It would surprise no one if the team worked out some long snappers in the coming days. "That's something we will look to address," Pettine said. "I don't know if it calls for a change, but it's to be discussed." The long-snapper joined the Browns midway through the 2011 season replacing Ryan Pontbriand, who according to former coach Pat Shurmur developed the "yips." Yount had one questionable snap last season on a blocked punt at Cincinnati, but otherwise had been solid. Not so this season. He launched a high snap in the Pittsburgh game that holder Spencer Lanning rescued on a field goal. But last week the unit had to abort an extra-point attempt because of another errant snap. "It's just a matter of execution," Yount said. "I'm not immune to mistakes like anybody else. Just try to go out there and do my best." Special teams have an issue in all three games. On Sunday, the Ravens' Asa Jackson skirted the right side of the line, getting around Billy Winn before deflecting Cundiff's attempt with the Browns clinging to a 21-17 lead. Pettine said Winn might have been too tight to the line, but acknowledged Jackson timed the block well. Winn made a brief appearance in the locker room Monday, but didn't chat with media members who approached him. Pettine also is weighing his options at punt returner. Travis Benjamin, returning from a torn ACL, has run back just three punts for two yards, while fair-catching five other attempts. On Sunday, he muffed a first-quarter punt and opted not to field a fourth-quarter boot that swung field position in the Ravens' favor. Benjamin said a gust of wind factored in his decision not to catch the ball that bounced around the Browns' 20 and rolled to the 7. The Browns hoped to get a return on the punt, one reason they didn't use sure-handed Jim Leonhard on the play. Benjamin was among the league's most dynamic returners prior to his season-ending knee injury against the Chiefs on Oct. 27. "That's something that I'll visit with (Tabor) about," Pettine said. "We'll make sure we have a plan for it. But whatever we need to do or get him coached up or put him in the best position to be successful. It's probably a better question to be asked of (Tabor) but just (to) do something to get his confidence back."
From 2001-2005 he made the playoffs ONCE with S.D.... so that puts Brees at 6 of 13 seasons of making the playoffs, not to mention... how did Brees do when the game was on the line against Cleveland? New Orleans is sitting at 1-2 right beside the Browns, with Brees at QB... I think Cleveland lost Sundays game against the Ravens because the running game couldn't move the sticks when they needed to the most... Not because Hoyer "Couldn't Deliver"... you can make all the excuses you want, and make any case you want for JF to be put in the game, BUT Hoyer hasn't thrown a pick, is 13th in the league in yards, and 10th in passer rating... and you guys wanna yank him out and start JF to "See what you got with him?" Seriously? If you're Pettine, try selling that to your locker room... especially to guys like Whitner and Dansby (FA signings this offseason).... GIMMIE A BREAK!
Bye week Browns need to improve poor pass rush by Craig Lyndall in Browns Following the Week 3 loss to the Baltimore Ravens, everyone seems to want to talk about Joe Haden. He?s the one who is the ?Athlete Mayor? of Cleveland. He?s the one who throws parties, has composure in front of a camera or a microphone and, so far in his career, has been a player that Browns fans could count on. Cornerback is one of those positions though. You can?t play that position and shut out the opposition. It doesn?t matter who you play against, you?re going to give up passes, yards, and sometimes look silly with flags. And every time you do, it?s going to be a big, wide, stage with nothing to do but walk back to the huddle, try to forget it and try again. While Joe Haden can play better than he has in the first three games of 2014, looking at him and casting blame is too easy. Instead, look where the stats aren?t piling up for the Browns defense in the category of ?sacks.? Everyone knew going into this season that the Browns were going to play a ton of man coverage with their corners left to dangle with receivers. We knew this because the flip side is that Mike Pettine?s defensive scheme was going to get the quarterback. It was meant to take Paul Kruger, Jabaal Sheard, Desmond Bryant, Barkevious Mingo and some of the linebackers and make them quarterback-rushing monsters. So far, the only monster being created by the Browns pass rush is on Joe Haden?s back. Paul Kruger has been the best of the bunch so far with his two sacks. After that, Karlos Dansby, Jabaal Sheard, and Chris Kirksey each have one. Through three games, this defensive juggernaut has five sacks. Craig Robertson pretty much got a sack against Baltimore, save a behind-the-line-of-scrimmage shovel pass that Joe Flacco ?completed? for negative yardage. Paul Kruger was the man who got hands on Joe Flacco to start the fourth quarter that led to an ?arm punt? to Tashaun Gipson who intercepted it. So I know that just because sacks aren?t always piling up in the stat sheet doesn?t mean the Browns? pass rush isn?t working.1 I?m also not trying to tell you the Browns? secondary is playing well. How can I, when this passes for ?defense? by the Browns? top drafted player, Justin Gilbert? I?m simply saying that in the scope of the team and its struggles, we knew, or should have known, that if the Browns had difficulties putting a pass rush on, that they?d run into this problem. As the Browns head into their bye week, you can save me the Manziel calls. Brian Hoyer has played more than adequately enough to keep his job. Kyle Shanahan has also called a very competitive offensive game plan to the point where I really don?t have any major complaints. The offensive line is doing a really nice job, including Mitchell Schwartz who has mostly kept his name out of our mouths so far this season. Mostly. Even the wide receivers who were scaring us all heading into the season have shown a capability to get open, actually catch the ball and make people miss. Sure, I wish they wouldn?t fall down when they have clear lanes to the end zone in back-to-back games, but remember Greg Little and Davone Bess. This is an improvement and the Browns are likely going to get Josh Gordon back as long as he can keep his nose clean. Of course I think the Browns need to work on their special teams. I don?t know if they want to try out long-snappers this week. I don?t know if Chris Tabor wants to grit his teeth and grab some players by the jersey and get some things straightened out. Certainly in addition to the field goal unit woes, Travis Benjamin needs to fair catch a ball close to the 20 to save it from going down to the Browns 6-yard line with the game on the line and field position being of utmost importance. But if I have to pick one, I?m looking at the pass rush. I?m looking at all the money the Browns have spent on their payroll on the defensive line. I?m looking at Paul Kruger?s $8 million, Ahtyba Rubin?s $8 million, Desmond Bryant?s $12 million over the first two years in Cleveland. I?m looking at highly drafted guys like Barkevious Mingo and even Jabaal Sheard. This is one of the units that I expected to be a strength of the roster. This is one of the units I expected to be maximized with the hiring of Browns head coach Mike Pettine. This is the spot where the Browns have clear and achievable improvement on the table, if you ask me. Yes, Joe Haden needs to play better. Yes, Justin Gilbert needs to play better. Right now, though,their play is a leading indicator that the Browns pass rush is not getting the job done.
