Wasn't able to see game just the highlight of Bradford going down and Sam's sack of Johnny. *DONT_KNOW* Will be watching at 1:00 ET. By the way Lym, nice photo on Aunt Kari and cousin Tori but who is the clown in the middle. *SCRATCH*
Week 1 = "Unimpressed" Week 2 = "Putrid" Week 3 = "With the 1st pick in the 2015 NFL draft, the Cleveland Browns select . . ."
Hello Fellow lounge Houndz... *HI* Am finally back after a long week at the conference. Was busy reviewing all the happenings from this week and was thinking about this post... And was thinking about how close to reality this post may actually be. :[ So far this team looks in worse shape than the team coached by Shurmur. :! Am having a difficult time getting too excited about this upcoming season. *HELP* Have a great day lunge houndz....
Alright, since I've commented on the first 2 preseason games I may as well give this one a try. 1. As I said in about a thousand other post before this the Browns need to find a legit #1 WR for this year and beyond. Gordon I think we all figure is going to miss at least 8 games this year. I know Cameron is ailing a little bit and Hawkins looks good but this team is in MAJOR NEED of a true #1 WR. I feel very firmly that Farmer should of addressed this position in the draft. This will come back to haunt the Browns for at least half the season or the 8 games Gordon misses. 2. Bryan Hoyer is not, Ill repeat, is not a starting QB in the NFL. Just like D. Jackson he was the best out of a very, very, very bad group. Know this doesn't mean Manziel is the 2nd coming of Montana but the team does respond to him. So does the crowd. I'm glad we drafted him but I do want him to learn the NFL game, the defenses and speed. Without a true #1 we are setting him up to fail anyway. So let Grossman or Hoyer play, get their brains beat in and see where this season is heading. 3. Justin Gilbert has to get better. I was disappointed in his play last night. He performed like William Green instead of a Joe Thomas. Basically he looked like another bad early pick. Hopefully he can figure out the speed and offenses of the NFL because last night was pitiful. 4. Kirksley was a beast. I was very impressed with his game. If he continues to get better we may have stole this young man in the draft. 5. Bitonio looked over matched last night. When you have multiple holding calls you are getting your arse handed to you. 6. Gabriel was also impressive to me. This offense is going to need the best field position possible to put points on the board. 7. I think I would give Grossman a chance to start. He knows the offense and NFL game. I was all for letting Hoyer start this season to let Johnny learn. But I think we can all see it was Gordon and Cameron that helped Hoyer out A LOT!!! I have a changed attitude this year about the Browns. Being negative isn't helping them or me for that matter. But I'm starting to think that this is yet another 4/5 win football team. No WR's, line is suspect at best, QB play isn't very good. To some it all up the offense flat out SUCKS! Now we all know Farmer is waiting to see who gets cut at WR to pick up. This team needs someone. Next year we could have 2 top 10 picks. WR needs to be one of those picks. Then I'll see later where we need the most help. Who knows it may be Mariota or Hundley. The one thing I've learned about these so called new Browns. You really just don't know. Go Browns.
How bout the ferocious tandem of Winston and R. Greene...but in all seriousness there is no way they can draft a QB next yr except mayb on day 3....Greene will b a beast and shuld b a high 1st round pick
Hey stopper, can you get me the name of that radio station now? And the Browns can easily take a QB in the first round next season. They are in no way forced to be committed to John in the long term regardless of the late first round pick last season.
stopper is right on this one. I would agree with you, Tim, if they had made Johnny the starter right away. If the plan is to sit Manziel and let him "learn to be a backup" until he's ready, you don't undermine that after 16 games. However, had Manziel started Day 1 and simply not gotten the job done, it would be a different story. And talk about a joke... you've seen the vitriol by Browns fans towards Manziel in here. Could you imagine if they grabbed Jameis Winston? Wow.
I disagree with this for a few reasons. 1. There is a maturity issue at this point. 2. You and I disagree on John's abilities. 3. He was unable to beat out Hoyer for the starting gig. 4. and this would be the biggest one, there is no way to tell at this point where the Browns will be picking in the next draft and if there is a QB that projects to be better than anything you have on your roster available you have to consider making that move. The Browns will only be committed to John without question if he ends up starting this season and playing like a franchise quarterback. The only other reason to consider not taking one high in the draft next season would be if Hoyer starts to win a lot of games forcing John to stay on the bench, but even then he would have to make strides on the practice field to lock it up prior to the 2015 draft.
It will come to no surprise, I believe, that I agree with SAS and Stopper on this one. I will address each point separately Tim. 1. Maturity is just that, something that takes time to grow. They would not discard Manziel based on maturity that will in time grow. At the very least, they couldn't say he will not grow in this regard after only one season. 2. You disagree with SAS, me AND MOST IMPORTANTLY the Browns who spent a first and third round draft pick on him. 3. Pettine all but announce that Hoyer won by default since they were both similar in effectiveness, but preferred Hoyer's experience to open the season. In no way has he stated Hoyer beat Manziel out on play. Hoyer started the year as the starter and Manziel didn't do enough to change that. Much will depend on Hoyer's growth between now and the bye week as to whether he can keep that stance. If he doesn't improve immensely before then, they will have a very difficult time not making a switch. 4. QB projections be damned, they obviously "projected" Manziel to be a starting QB in this league or they would not have taken him using two draft picks. I don't have a doubt they still "project" Manziel to be a high caliber QB. What he has done in the few short months he has been here shows he is growing. He has caught up to a 5 year veteran in those short few months. A veteran half the fanbase was eager and willing to hand the reigns to prior to the 2014 draft. I don't disagree that if given a #1 overall pick scenario where there is absolutely a clear cut Andrew Luck type guy staring you in the face, they would be willing to use that #1 overall pick on that guy. Quite frankly I would be upset if they didn't. But barring that situation, I have a hard time believing they will have the same assessment if those picks are #5 or below, which is my expectations. If we are projecting wins and losses in August 4th week of preseason...I would have to argue the fact that this team is far and above personnel wise what it was a year ago... Offense QB improvements over 13 games, by virtue of the QB in 2 of the 4 wins was Hoyer who is starting the season and a first round rookie waiting to take his place. RB...no one can argue the upgrade at this position, NO ONE O-line, by all accounts Joel Bitonio is already in mid season form and is a rookie for crying out loud. TE, no real improvement, but no loss either WR, this is the crux of the argument. Without Josh Gordon, this unit becomes beyond mediocre. If Gordon gets anything less than a 12 game suspension, then the unit as a whole is no worse than the 4 win team from a year ago, since he will be available for at least 4 games (equal to their # of wins) at that point. Defense We lost no contributor that wasn't replaced or upgraded, to last year's team and added Gilbert and Kirksey. Before you argue against Gilbert's performance against the Rams. He was looking like a veteran before this night when his assignments were lightened by Joe Haden's presence. He will be a star on this team. So arguing that this team is no better than a 4 win team is pretty hard to do. They won 4 games last season and have the same roster with some marked improvements. Suffice it to say, they should at least improve by a couple of games, don't you think? Since we are making these arguments in August and not November after we actually see how they gel as a team in two new systems.
1. Players do not always mature. 2. On draft day, how much has that changed we do not know. 3. That is the same as saying he did not beat out Hoyer for the starting gig. 4. If you can upgrade at the most important position on field you have to consider it. The more question marks with the player you have - the more you weigh the option. We could go back and forth about a couple things but we have already stated that we disagree on some points regarding Manziel. I'll just touch on these last 2 parts. Given the schedule that the Browns have I can easily see them being a 4 win ball club. I'm not saying that is my prediction at this time (my AFC North predictions are not out yet) but the possibility of only winning 4 or 5 games is very real because of the combination of poor QB play and no receivers. The defense will be good but you still have to score points. I'll check back in later today. Hey stopper, I'm still waiting for the name of that radio station.
1. No they don't...which is why I said..."At the very least, they couldn't say he will not grow in this regard after only one season." For the record, Shanahan went on record in an interview with Chris Simms stating Manziel is very coach-able and wouldn't change a thing about him. 2. Agreed, we have absolutely no idea what draft day will bring... 3. OK, Tim, He did not beat out Hoyer for the starting gig...There I said it in the words your prefer. In the end, beating out Hoyer to start against Pittsburgh means very little to their plans for him in the future. 4. Yes, if they can upgrade with a sure fire prospect, then I absolutely agree 100%...Now give me the odds (in August mind you) that there will be a prospect that will be a sure fire upgrade at pick #5 or below, which is where I am going to assume they finish since they were at #4 in 2014 and have improved their roster. When assuming anything about the Browns, I am always going to be optimistic that they improve by at least a game...as bad as they have been the past 13 seasons, they have not finished below 4 wins...Nor have they ever lost 12 games two years in a row since 2000. This is definitely the strongest roster they have had since their return in 1999, so I am not JUST being optimistic in my expectations for the 2015 draft. Lastly, I will give you the preseason vanilla defense...Just as Brandon Weeden looked very good against some vanilla defenses in 2013, I will guarantee you, Kyle Shanahan is giving you a vanilla offense that is easily defensed in the preseason. The QBs and WRs have not been on the same page. I don't disagree at all on this point. However, to say the QB play has been poor this off season is not exactly accurate. The first preseason game they actually played pretty well despite the lack of WR help. Hoyer has regressed as they add more to the offense in the games, but game planning two QBs is also a heavy burden on an offense that is implementing a new system. As they grow more comfortable with the system, I would be very surprised if they don't improve weekly...with Hoyer as the starter, or when/if they decide to exchange him with Manziel. As the offense improves, so do their chances weekly of winning more games consistently. When/if Gordon returns, they will hopefully all be on the same page with the offense and become a team to reckon with the remainder of the season.
No shockers yet...Armstrong is a slight surprise since he came in knowing Shanahan's system. But in the end, if he isn't helping the team acclimate to that system, he isn't helping the team at all. I have been tracking the cuts and haven't seen any WRs worth mentioning yet either. The only one that semi interests me is Tommy Streeter at 6' 5" and has speed 4.6 40 at 6' 5" is pretty darn good. He could possibly help alleviate the Gordon absence. I think they could find a roster spot for him on the 75 man roster, to give him a tryout this week.
I agree on Streeter, he might be one worth taking a look at. Good size, hopefully better hands than Greg Little.....
I completely understand your point of view, and I simply disagree with the assessment for this team as it stands now and the possibility for the future. 1. I believe he said the same about RGIII, but at the very least it is 'coach speak'. Both you and I will have to wait and see what John does this season and next off-season. 2. A rare agreement on this topic. *DRINK* 3. All I'm saying is that the long term question gets answered a lot quicker if John capitalizes on the moment and wins the starting job outright. It does impact their plans for him in the future if he cannot supplant Hoyer at some point and if he does so by default (Hoyer fails to win) it does not solidify the spot for him and the questions will become larger if he looks as bad or worse than Hoyer. They have 2 picks in the first round and if Manziel cannot find a way to make them believe he is the answer this season the opportunity will be there to go after another QB. If you have a franchise that has not had a legitimate QB for as long as the Browns have you are always going to be looking for one until you fill the void. 4. I am not going to speculate today where the Browns may pick in the draft but if they play like they have looked this off-season they will be picking high again. Here comes another rare agreement, but I do agree that they will improve throughout the season as a unit. But it will take significant improvement for them to be anywhere near 500 and I think the ceiling for this team is 6 wins with 4 being the over/under. The only 4 games that some will have locked in as wins come against TEN and JAC on the road - OAK and HOU and I have a feeling that the spread might only favor the Browns in 1 or 2 of those games (both home games). Who do you have the Browns beating this season?
Actually the Vegas over/under is 6.5 for the Browns...so go make your wager on under and you can make some money apparently. Actually, I don't think any game is a lock. There are 16 games on a schedule...I give the Browns a chance in 16 of them. I have watched enough bad football to know, there are no sure losses or sure wins. This is an exercise in futility trying to "guess" who they will beat and lose to. That is all you are doing is guessing. Just look back to the 2010 season when during a 5 win season they beat the Patriots and Saints back to back. Let's look at the schedule: (now going by your preseason analysis, only 4 teams on the schedule have more than one win in the preseason, Saints, Ravens, Titans and Texans) I don't put any merit in preseason games, but I will mark games that I do give a realistic chance to the Browns on coming out with a victory based on their own team situations. Steelers Possible Saints improbable Ravens improbable, but possible at home Titans possible Steelers possible Jaguars probable Raiders probable Buccaneers possible Bengals possible Texans probable Falcons possible Bills probable Colts improbable, but another home game makes it possible Bengals probable Panthers improbable, Panthers have become very difficult to beat late in the season since Newton was drafted Ravens improbable so my tally has 5 improbable games out of 16...That gives them 11, what I deem as "winnable" games. Some they will lose, but could also win 1 or 2 of those improbable games...see why this is a exercise in futility? This also doesn't take into account TWO of the improbable losses are against a Ravens team that we actually beat in 2013 with Jason Campbell at QB...see what I'm getting at? I might as well say I expect the Browns to win 11 games this season...it really doesn't mean anything at the end of the day, because neither of us has any clue what the situation will be on any of the given 17 Sundays they will take the field to play football this regular season.
That's nicely written, but I know you already realize that is not what I was asking. How many games do you think the Browns will win this season and who do you have them beating? *EDIT* and for the record I could give a shit less about a preseason record. I do care however as to how a team looks in the preseason. There is a lot to be taken out of a preseason game when you see how a team operates regardless of game plan and scheme.
Same answer...I have no possible idea. Everything depends on how long it takes a QB, either of the two, to get on the same page with their receivers. This team will win, or more importantly, not lose, the sooner they can extend more drives than going three and out. If they can extend two or three 10+ play drives in the first half of games, they will be in every single one of them at the end. That is what I am looking at. That is also why, I personally preferred going with the rookie week one. He extended more drives than the veteran did in this offense. At the end of the day, if they extend drives and don't wear out the defense by half time, they will have a chance to win any of those 16 games. I have no crystal ball to give any educated answer to how long it will take to run this offense efficiently. That is all it takes is running it efficiently, not expertly, to win games imho. So if you want my ACTUAL guess... I will say between 5 and 11 games...vague yes, but an educated guess? There is no such answer at this stage. This isn't a veteran team using a system they have been in for 3+ years. We have no idea when it will click into place. For all we know, the actual offense they will be running may have become efficient in closed door practices and they could be using preseason games to try variances of plays they are going to run in the regular season. That would certainly explain why they cannot get on the same page while running it.
