Really, because what I have seen is, "paraphrasing", anyone but a QB... Every week, depending on who the talking heads have rated higher that week, between Watkins, Mack, Robinson, Matthews, Clowney (if he falls) and now more recently(since the talking heads are now saying he might be better than Watkins) Evans... It changes with the wind, that isn't conviction, it is regurgitating what you have read or seen on TV.
Your commitment to the process is admirable but let's face it... Three years from now no one will remember what we talked about in here just like no one remembers all the QB conversations on Newton, Tannehill, RGIII, etc. I read your post in the QB thread about quarterbacks and how I have no clue what I'm talking about and it's the most accurate thing you've posted in a month. Now if you could just grasp that you don't either we can all sit back and enjoy the show. The position of QB is played from the neck up. Physical abilities are obviously necessary and can sometimes even compensate for a brain full of mush (see Roethlisberger, Ben) but the really special QBs in the history of the NFL have shared one common trait - they can process information very quickly. Without having sat down with each QB in this draft class and really evaluated their abilities to grasp offensive (and defensive) scheme I simply have no idea who the best QB in this class is and without that first hand information I tend to go with the guys who have arm talent. That's why I'd take Mallet over all of them. He's far from a genius from what I've seen but he's trained under a premier QB for three years and I have to believe some of that sunk in. In 2011 there were 5 QBs taken ahead of Colin Kaepernick. In 2012 there were 5 QBs taken ahead of Russell Wilson. Maybe Aaron Murray goes 6th and is better than all of them?
Isn't it possible that some of us just don't see the same "can't miss" traits in any of these guys that you do? I can't speak for everyone, but I sure don't believe that any of these guys are the Browns' QB Messiah. Nor do I truly believe that Brian Hoyer is the next Tom Brady. But, at this point in time, IT IS MY OPINION THAT HE'S BETTER THAN ANY OF THE THREE. Oh, really? Again, I can't speak for everyone in here but I've touted Sammy Watkins since day 1. Recently, it appears more likely that he MAY not be there at #4. It was at that point in time when I started to include Mike Evans. And even then - I normally typed "Watkins/Evans" when talking about pick #4. It's about time you came down off of your high horse and joined us mere mortals.
BEREA, Ohio ? Canton has been long associated with the culmination of great pro football careers. Now, the city wants to identify with their beginnings, as well. A Pro Football Hall of Fame executive told cleveland.com the city does have strong interest in hosting the NFL Draft if the league decides to start rotating its location. According to the New York Post?s Bart Hubbuch, Canton is one of eight cities that have applied to hold a draft, which for years has been conducted at Radio City Music Hall in New York. NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell has said recently the league is exploring whether to give other cities an opportunity to stage the draft. The Post reports a decision on where to hold the 2015 draft will come no later than the fall. NFL source tells me the following cities have applied to host draft: New Orleans, Boston, Philly, Orlando, Chicago, L.A. and Canton, Ohio. ? Bart Hubbuch (@HubbuchNYP) May 7, 2014 Canton would be a natural candidate given its ties to the game?s history and the hall of fame. But it has stiff competition. New Orleans, Boston, Philadelphia, Orlando, Chicago, Los Angeles and Arlington, Texas also have submitted applications, according to the Post. Hall?s executive vice president of communication and exhibits Joe Horrigan said if Canton won a bid the event likely would be held at the Civic Center, which annually hosts HOF functions. The Browns conducted their 1999 expansion draft at the Civic Center and it was telecast by ESPN. In recent years, there?s been talk of rotating the draft ? the National Hockey League does it among its member cities ? and Canton always has been an interested party, Horrigan said. Canton Mayor William J. Healy II could not immediately be reached for comment.
Good news for ya, Bluez. Jimmy Haslam will not interfere with what promises to be a vital draft for the Cleveland Browns. Haslam concluded a draft meeting Tuesday with the Browns' major decision-makers by telling new general manager Ray Farmer, "At the end of the day, this is your call." Farmer confirmed Haslam's closing statement to ESPN. Haslam has often said he will let the people he hired make the choices. That statement reinforced his position, and it was made with many Browns scouts and front-office types in the room. "This is Ray Farmer's draft," first-year head coach Mike Pettine told ESPN. Many options remain open to the Browns with the fourth overall draft pick -- including quarterback Johnny Manziel, or a trade out of the No. 4 slot. "Our board is wide open," Pettine said. "Everything is in play." Pettine made the statement when asked specifically about the idea that Manziel was not a consideration. Neither Pettine nor Farmer would go into any more specifics. If the Browns decide to trade down, they would not necessarily target a receiver, but a cornerback, sources told ESPN. One player the Browns like very much is Justin Gilbert, a 6-foot, 202-pound corner from Oklahoma State. Gilbert has excellent cover skills and has speed to return kickoffs. Drafting him would give the Browns another talented cornerback opposite Joe Haden, a necessity in a blitzing defense like Pettine's.
I wish I was watching the draft at PnB Crex, a little frosty at Frosty's with some zaa would certainly cut the tension in these threads... I apologize to everyone, but taking hit after hit after hit has taken it's toll...It started out just trying to share what I spent hours evaluating, then came the hits of me thinking I know everything...to what I have endured the last couple of weeks and quite frankly, I don't give rats arse what anyone thinks any more. I will stick by my convictions and move on after tomorrow night. As for everything else, go ahead and post pics and remarks and what ever else entertains all of you that disagree with me...I'm over it and will simply make what ever remarks I feel like making as well.
100% spot on Lyman...For that matter, how can Jacksonville justify not grabbing a QB early? Look at their roster. They got nothin....All I know is, I can't count how many times I sat there watching the Browns play last year and muttered to myself, "if only we had an average QB!". and from what I saw of Jacksonville and Houston, they are in the same boat. QB's were awful. How the hell the Raiders think that they've solved their QB dilemma is beyond me... One thing Browns fans need to keep in mind, is just because past regimes have tried and failed to secure a franchise QB, doesn't mean ya quit tryin. It's frustrating as hell, but we gotta find a guy. If we can't, expect the 4 and 5 win seasons to continue. We really aren't that far away, yet until we get a real QB, we are miles away......It means everything in the NFL. It's totally understandable why Browns fans are very leary....but we can't stop the pursuit. Focusing on other positions early, and taking a flyer on a QB in the 3rd round is absurd given our circumstances, and its a good way to never find a QB... Not that anybody here is arguing for that, but I have heard it.
Which has been my argument for months and the reason behind my bet with Lym in the first place.. I have said all along, in order to get our guy, we would need to trade up. I don't doubt for a second one or both of the two will draft a QB high. It would not surprise me in the least of the Browns top guy is gone at #4, which was when I was totally on board taking Watkins if their QB is taken ahead of them... I still think Manziel will be gone in the first 3 picks of this draft.
An article I found on WaitingForNextYear.com Quarterback is a pass-fail position. Sure, there are two or three on every team, but out of those 80-90 guys, there are 60 or 70 of them who are just around because every team needs one on the field; the others are insurance in case that one guy gets hurt. Half?and probably more?of the teams in the NFL are in the perpetual pursuit of that top-flight signal caller. Which brings us to the Cleveland Browns and Thursday night when Ray Farmer and his staff may very well select a quarterback. I?m OK with that. More than OK. In fact, they MUST take one by halfway through Day 2. What I don?t want them to do, however, is sacrifice their draft board and pass up a Pro Bowl talent in the never-ending pursuit of a franchise player under center. I?ll reference a couple of things from Craig?s interesting take on Johnny Football being the ?safest? pick at No. 4. One of Craig?s go-to arguments in his case for drafting Manziel is how drafting Joe Thomas, an All-Pro and potential future Hall of Fame offensive tackle, in the top five has led to little in the way of wins. The Browns could be staring down that exact same scenario if Auburn tackle Greg Robinson remains on the board when the fourth-overall selection is on the clock. I disagree with the premise of Craig?s argument. I?d argue that selecting an offensive lineman that high, having him sit on your line for a decade, and never having to worry about that one of 22 starting positions is a huge benefit. The argument Craig seems to be making here (and he?s certainly not alone) is that no other starting position effectively matters until you have that franchise quarterback. That?s not how team building works. Sure, there?s the risk that you chew through your core in the pursuit of a franchise quarterback. There?s also the possibility that you take these seven picks in the first four rounds and add some young, cheap, dynamic talent to a core of Pro Bowlers?say, Joe Haden, Josh Gordon, Jordan Cameron, Joe Thomas, and Alex Mack?and start to fill out two complete sides of the ball. Then, with the rest of the car built, you drop the engine into a team that?s ready to hit the ground running. Of course, you?re not going to go deep into the playoffs without a good quarterback, but is this team going deep into the playoffs next year? Build a complete team by taking the best players available that fit your system and assess your deficiencies all while picking players that have the best chance of succeeding. Then, perhaps we get a scenario where you can drop a Roethlisberger or Russell Wilson into a complete team and put them in a situation to succeed very early in their career. While it?s true that you don?t sign or trade for franchise quarterbacks, you also rarely, if ever, can trade for top flight wideouts, elite left tackles, shutdown corners, or dynamic pass rushers. Many of you who I?ve chatted with on Twitter are correct in saying that a good quarterback is worth a No. 1 selection in all cases. It?s also equally fair to say any of those other 60-70 J.A.G.s1 are not worth any more than a fourth-round pick at best. What lies in between then? That?s the sliding probability scale of confidence that, in a organization?s assessment, this quarterback can become a top-tier quarterback. A mid-ranked quarterback can be acquired via trade or free agency2 . There is a certain formula or opportunity cost for each team that is unique. Would I take Johnny Manziel if the team thought he had a 75% chance of becoming a top-tier quarterback over a wide reciever or offensive tackle that they thought was a sure-fire or can?t miss (90-95% chance)? Yes, I probably would, because quarterback is at least that much more important. Now, do I make the same call if the team is less than 50% sure Manziel can become that guy? Do I make that pick if they?re doing it only because he?s the top QB on their board in a weaker QB draft? No, I certainly do not. At that point, I slide down to the next tier of Teddy Bridgewater, Derek Carr, or the AJ McCarron tier and take my pick of those guys later on the board. I?m admittedly a Bridgewater fan, especially if he can be had with the 26th pick. The Browns need a quarterback, but if they?re not confident enough that one at No. 4 is the quarterback, they should wait part of a round or more. Craig said it himself, you can?t overvalue quarterbacks, but you can overdraft them. He pointed out several scenarios where teams blew up their draft boards and inflated the QB talent artificially and inexplicably select the Ponder, Locker,and Gabbert types in the top 10. One prime example is an aggregate big board of prospects that Joe Lull (@LullOnSports) shared on Twitter a few days back. Notice the huge dropoff between the fifth- and sixth-best prospects (Matthews at 4.62 and Evans at 8.54). The trio of highly touted quarterbacks fall 11th (Bridgewater), 14th (Bortles), and 15th (Manziel). That is enough of a gap for me to pass on a QB at No. 4. I know Manziel has eye-popping elusiveness, charisma by the boat loads, and he accomplished all of his accolades in the best football conference outside of the NFL. Those factors are not lost on me. But, his bust factor due to his size, injury concerns due to his running frequency, and inexperience taking snaps under center cannot be overlooked when evaluating the total package. In college, you can survive with some unconventional aspects of your game, but in the NFL, those largely get exploited. I?m not saying that will necessarily be the case with Johnny Manziel, but it is a concern of mine. I?m all for paying the price it takes to get a quarterback. But, in this draft, with these prospects, up against the elite talent and deep nature of this particular draft the price doesn?t warrant it. I get stomach pains just thinking about being horns-waggled into trading up for Manziel out of pure fear and speculation. It?s Trent Richardson all over again, being fooled by the Vikings into giving up a precious draft pick instead of calling their bluff. It?s a little easier to stomach such a move if moving up from 26th pick given that the price drops. Still, the Browns punted last year?s draft. Let?s hope that punting effort has not gone in vain. We finally have a well-respected front office, and they have a real chance to display their knowledge and flex their muscles with these seven early-round picks. How many times has a Cleveland team been the first team to pick after the elite talent is gone3? There are plenty of draft authorities who talk about the quartet of Jadeveon Clowney, Greg Robinson, Khalil Mack, and Sammy Watkins as being far and above the rest of the board. The Browns have the fourth pick, so if they don?t like who?s left at that point, they should partner with someone who buys into that drop-off. Imagine, if you will, a young quarterback walking in with Josh Gordon, Jordan Cameron, and either Mike Evans or Sammy Watkins to throw to on Sundays. Or, Joe Thomas, Alex Mack, and Greg Robinson anchoring the best offensive line in the league. It all comes down to the front office?s assessment and their big board. If Johnny Manziel (or Teddy Bridgewater or Blake Bortles) is one of their top-rated players, then by all means take them. But, if it?s the outside pressure from the fans to pick the media darling and fear of passing on the enigma driving the decision, then you simply have to take one of the other great options at your fingertips. Above all, I hope the Browns come out looking like one of the smartest teams in the room. We?ve spent far too much time on the other end of that spectrum.
Irish, don't take it to hard, it is what us fans do. Were all over the board in the months leading up to the draft. You have just been on one thought. Nothing wrong with that. I have been from Watkins to Robinson, for the Rams only 2 ways but the grief I get from the Watkins camp only is hard to stomach sometimes but it is my thoughts and so be it. As far as your opinion versus the media for example or most of the fans world wide in general, NONE of the QBs are 1st round talent, the QBs are not good, their dropping, Bridgewater #1, he sucks, Manziel is short and can't hold up, they are all opinions as is yours. With that said though, the last few remarks about the top of the draft are correct about teams needing a QB. How can the Texans not draft one? How can the Jaguars not want Manziel with seats to be filled and no real QB? The Browns are improving and really just a QB away? The Raiders traded for a guy the Texans get rid of, QB need? The Vikings? I watch NFL Channel every night, the mocks, the media push for this guy and that guy but the fact still is, it is a QB driven league. One QB taken in the first, 2 or 3, is Brotles the next Luck or Ben? Is Manziel's height any different than Brees or Wilson's? How did Bridgewater go from 1st pick to 2nd round? Hell isn't Carr the best to go right now? The answer is yes to all of them and although the winds blows that all are below 1st round standard, I would not doubt one bit that all are drafted in the 1st round and maybe 3 in the top 10. So don't get down because no one knows but we will finally all find out tomorrow and I can't wait.
Wait... what? When have I ever been insincere? I tell it like it is. It's not always popular, but it's almost always right.
Happy Cleveland Browns Draft Day Lounge Hounds!!! The day is finally here, just 13 hours away. *DRINK*
Morning Irish. Draft Day is finally here. I feel like the Dad in the Christmas Story movie. [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE2l5filkMU[/video]
