The GOOD, The BAD, and The UGLY - 2013 SEASON REVIEW

And Part 2:

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2014/1/2/5263720/steelers-2013-season-review

 

I know that, and we all have differing opinions on many things. Woodley may not be as great as Troy, but we're talking about money vs. productivity. Two years ago the prevailing opinion was that Troy was finished... couldn't get healthy and was costing the team salary cap space. Now he has a rebound year and that is forgotten, and the same thing can happen with Woodley.

 

I disagree. I think the defense definitely missed Woodley the last couple of years. He may not be a first ballot hall of famer, but he's a hell of a 3-4 OLB and when he's healthy he's a fantastic pass rusher.

My biggest issue with letting Woodley go at this point is that he's still young. I know he's had injury problems the past 3 years and that is obviously a big concern, but the talent is not in question, or at least it shouldn't be. He is making more money than he deserves based on his recent impact but not based on his ability when he's healthy.

If we cut him, take a $14M cap hit, and he goes on to have another 4 or 5 years of outstanding production with another team (like the Ravens who might be looking for a replacement for Suggs), it would just kill me.

I honestly believe that, unless the team absolutely NEEDS that $6M cap savings that cutting Woodley would bring in June, you keep him on the roster for this season and look at trading him next season if Worilds and Jones continue to develop. This year is not the right year to cut ties with Lamarr Woodley.

 

Absolute fact! The Steelers missed Woodley the last couple of years. When he's healthy he's one of the best pass rushers in the NFL. It sucks to see a guy that is so good have his legacy be defined by injuries more than his play.

Terrell Davis isn't in the Hall of Fame because he didn't get enough healthy years. Doesn't change the fact that the Denver Broncos and John Elway never win a Super Bowl without him.

Lamar Woodley stands alone in NFL history with four consecutive two sack playoff games. He was the only guy in the history of the NFL to have three multi sack playoff games when he recorded the fourth against the Cardinals in the Super Bowl. He may not end up in the Hall of Fame is his career ended today but he has been special!

 

Finally getting a spare minute again! My long holiday break has ended and back in the routine of work, work, and more work! Thanks for your long post Beachbum and yes, it made sense, and I think it's a good read and I get the point you are making/developing in your post.

I guess based on your above statement PFF rankings can't really be relied on. So we throw them out and look at the stats on PFF instead and then use our minds to adjust for what each player is asked to do and the corresponding difficulties. I won't pretend to have enough football knowledge to accurately do that, but I would think some of the guys in the links I provided have informed opinions based on statistics and similar insights to the ones you provided in your post, and have just come to a different opinion regarding the necessity of keeping Pouncey next year over a Valesco and Wallace (I finally have his name down cold)!

At the end of the day I kind of agree with Gidion in that I'd like to see all three back. I don't know if Valesco or Wallace can play guard as well as center...one of the analysts was suggesting Pouncey move to guard at times. Regardless, Pouncey's salary is high and he's coming off another very significant injury. That is a big consideration. However, Valesco is coming off a serious injury too, which is also a consideration. I guess maybe bring them all into camp and let the situation work itself out? By the way, I'm not advocating that Pouncey should come into camp as anything less than the frontrunner for the center position. There is the possibility the Steelers decide his salary is just too high and that Valesco and Wallace can get the job done adequately for less, and they let Pouncey walk before camp (but I don't expect that to happen).

I never said Pouncey can't be a good player any longer. I just think he's overrated considering the money he makes and the expectations for him. Honestly, those expectations just can't possibly be as high as they used to be after two major injuries, etc. I'm fine with however the Steelers decide to move forward.

 

Maurkice Pouncey is scheduled to make about $1.3M in 2014 salary, plus a $2.8M roster bonus due, I am assuming, in March.

The guess here is that they try to get a long term deal done prior to that roster bonus coming due. His cap hit is scheduled to be roughly $5.5M in 2014 and he's a free agent in 2015. Regardless of what anyone in here says, the team knows that Pouncey is their best lineman and that its not his fault his knee was shredded. They will pay him and he will be here for a long time. It would be stupid not to.

 

I'm not suggesting throwing them out completely. If guys are grading out well it means they are doing their job well. I'm only suggesting that if Player A is the #1 ranked CB and Player B is the #10 ranked CB it doesn't mean Player A is necessarily the better football player.

I'm probably going to regret saying this but no one (including me) thinks William Gay is the 8th best CB in football and Patrick Peterson is the 16th. But it does tell you that in 2013 Gay has done his job (play tight coverage, tackle people and don't give up the big play) a little better than P. Peterson has done his (cover team's best WR, take risk and create turnovers).

And then you can look at the stats to give you an idea of where those grades came from:

Gay - 27 stops (T-2nd), 9.5 Avg YPC (7th), 1 TD allowed (T-2nd), 72.9 Opposing QB rating (21st), 1 INT (54th)

Peterson - 6 stops (72nd), 14.0 YPC (59th), 7 TD allowed (72nd), 91.3 Opposing QB rating (55th), 3 INT (T-18th)

Obviously Peterson is the more talented player but he didn't have a good year. So you can't throw the rankings out completely but you also can't use them to say Player A is better than Player B.

 

I doubt they look at his contract until this summer after he's healthy again.

 

You think they will pay that $2.8M roster bonus without securing him long term?

I think his injury happened in September, they should have a pretty good idea where he's at in the next two months...they will want to get something done before that bonus is due.

edit: An ACL/MCL injury is typically an 8-10 month recovery. Pouncey will be roughly 6 months into the recovery by the end of February.

 

I don't think they have a choice. I don't imagine Pouncey would rush into any kind of deal. That bonus is essentially guaranteed - they're not releasing him. If I were him I'd concentrate on getting healthy and getting back out on the practice field. I would demonstrate I'm fully recovered first (training camp) and then sit down at the table and negotiate the contract that will set me up for the rest of my life.

I can't recall them ever doing a contract extension prior to free agency and the draft.

 

I know its a bit different because he's the QB, but Ben's deal was done on March 3rd...a couple of days after free agency started.

I would be interested to know when that bonus is due. Its not always on day 1 of the new league year. I have also seen teams and players agree to delay those payments in the past, although Pouncey has little motivation to allow that.

In the end, you are probably right. The team will have to pay him the bonus and wait to do his extension in the summer. I would just rather they can roll that bonus into a new, long term, deal so that its cap hit is spread out along with his signing bonus.

 

While we keep talking about adding guys, re-signing guys, releasing people, etc, the ENTIRE offseason capabilities of the team truly revolves around Big Ben's new contract. Ben has to decide if he wants to be the highest paid QB ever (until someone inevitably makes more money), or if he wants to be a "team guy." I don't know how much he knows about the contract situation (not his job, but everyone's contracts are pretty much public knowledge at this point), but he HAS to know that Pouncey will be getting extended, Heath needs to be extended, Woirlds needs an extension, and Hood and Woods both need new deals. In order for them to do what they need to with those guys, it is advantageous of him (as the team leader, and someone who wants to win another Super Bowl or two) to take a lower cap sum. Because of that, his deal will HAVE to be done prior to Free Agency (February would be a good time). This way, they can get Woirlds, Hood, and Woods situated RIGHT when FA hits and delay paying Heath and Pouncey.

On another note, I am pretty sure they will not just flat out cut Woodley. They may ask him to take a pay cut and point to his production for the reason why. If he won't budge, they can cut him after June 1 or seek a trade. Either way, they don't worry too much about Dead Money.

 

Indiana...no question that Ben's deal is an important one, but its not critical. They have other ways to get under the cap far enough to sign Worilds and the handful of their own free agents that they want to sign.

Good example, the deals for Heath and Pouncey (if done before March) would bring cap savings this year as well.

They don't need to wait to sign those 3 guys. Since the Steelers still own their rights, they are allowed to negotiate with them prior to the start of free agency. I would expect that they will try to get Worilds under contract before FA starts...but I doubt that Worilds or his agent will want to take a deal until they see what other teams are offering.

 

Harrison missed 4 games in October 2011 (this was right after Woodley signed his big deal). All Woodley did was when defensive player of the month in those 4 games with 7.5 sacks, the last of which was New England where he hurt his hamstring.

Seems like he's never recovered since and I agree he hasn't done much lately but James Harrison was nowhere to be found that month and he dominated the LOS. When healthy, Lamarr Woodley is a beast with or without James Harrison on the other side.

 

Your right ajm...this would save some cap money. Question, though...what are you going to do with it?

The savings are only good for the 2014 season (Woodley would then count for over $8M against the 2015 cap).

Having over $8M of cap space in the summer is kind of useless if you don't have a plan for it. $8M doesn't win the team any games unless they use it for something...what are you going to use it for?

 

That's great!!

Can you just give those guys a call and ask them to wait until June 2nd to sign a contract?

Otherwise, they will be long gone before the team has that cap space available.

3-1 without Ben to start 2010...THAT UNDERACHIEVER!!! CUT BEN!!! :-*

 

To what end?

I can only hope that you are speaking about the carryover aspect of the current CBA. The rule that allows teams to carry unused salary cap space from one year to the next (something that was not allowed under the previous CBAs). Under that rule, the unused portion of the $8M that the team would save by cutting Woodley in the summer could be carried into the 2015 season and would, in essence, increase the team's cap by that amount.

My issue with that is simple...what about 2014?

Sure, the team had some success with Woodley on the bench but its crazy to think that this team is better without Woodley than they are with him.

I don't know about you, ajm, but I want the Steelers to win the Superbowl in 2014. Lamarr Woodley is very capable of helping them do just that. Cutting him to save money that they can't realistically use until 2015 is counter-productive to that cause, in my opinion.

 

Let me expand on this comment about the refs. On the MSN main page this morning you will find Samuel L. Jackson tweeting about the refs this year. His tweet there. "These Refs'! So not only do I think it's the worst season of of calls on players, but a high profile actor also thinks they have problems with calls on the field. I realize that he's just one person with an opinion, star or no star, but he's taking the the same stance I am. I think this is the worst year I have ever seen referee's make calls. And they can't even get it right with slo-mo replays half the time. Just terrible officiating all year and maybe the worst I have ever seen in 40 years....And I don't even like Jackson!

 

I don't mind a bad call once in a while, but when the refs appear to be purposely giving a game to a team like the Ravens @ Chargers last year or the Chiefs @ Chargers this year I really lose some love of the game.