The GOOD, The BAD, and The UGLY - 2013 SEASON REVIEW

Pardon my french but anyone who thinks they should dump Pouncey is an Idiot. Look props to Velasco and Wallace for stepping in but there is a reason both guys were available.

 

Maybe you are right, but when I look at the money the Steelers would be throwing away they would basically be paying for some other team to have one of the best 3-4 OLBs (when healthy) in the league playing for them. Cutting him, with no compensation, and taking a $6+M cap hit this year and another $8M cap hit in 2015 when he is 29 years old is pretty damned stupid to me.

Especially when you consider that the $8M savings the team would have this season wouldn't be available to them until after June 1st, when most of their big moves to sign their own free agents and any other free agents they are interested in would be over and done with.

The smart thing to do with Lamarr Woodley is to let him recover from his injury, participate in the offseason program and training camp. See where he's at health-wise going into the season. If he is healthy, why in the world wouldn't we want him on the team??

Prior to his injuries, he was one of the highest rated 3-4 OLBs in the NFL this past season. Cutting him doesn't help you sign Jason Worilds, so you sign Worilds, keep Woodley and have a 3 man rotation with those two and Jarvis Jones and you potentially have to most dangerous group of 3-4 OLBs in the entire NFL.

Or, you cut the guy and have him playing for someone else while the Pittsburgh Steelers eat $14M in cap space over the next two seasons....STUPID!!

 

Woodley has missed nearly a third (14 games) of the steelers games the last three years can he get healthy? In adition to flt out missing 14 games how many partial games did he miss surrounding those missed games?

 

again the cap situations bests me. but as a consolation prize IF he didnt have an absurd contract then i think pouncey is more valuable - maybe. even though pass rushers are really coveted i just dont know of many centers that id trust.

2k

 

Troy Polamalu missed 30 of his 130 games since becoming a starter. It does happen, unfortunately for the Steelers it is costing them a lot of salary cap room. Can Woodley get healthy? Yes.

 

Jean...this is the reason that so many people want to see the team cut ties with him, but it doesn't matter. It truly doesn't matter at all that he has missed so much time the last couple of years.

Don't get me wrong, if the team could cut Woodley and it wasn't going to cost them anything...or even if it was a reasonable cap penalty...I wouldn't so be vehemently opposed.

However, I just don't see the benefit to cutting the guy!

Sure, we save $8M come June 2nd on the 2014 salary cap, but then we take that $8M hit next year. The $8M savings this year does absolutely NOTHING to help this team sign any of their own free agents (including Worilds) or any other free agents because we don't see a penny of it until June.

If he's on the roster, he counts for $14M on the salary cap. HUGE money for a guy who may or may not play much considering his injury history, but I would rather have him on our roster at $14M than off our roster for the same money (even if spread over two years).

If you keep him (and the team can certainly afford to do just that this year) and he still struggles with injuries in 2014, its much easier to part ways in 2015 because his cap savings is a simple $5M the moment he's cut or traded. If he has a good season, he's all of a sudden a valuable trade commodity assuming that Worilds and Jones are sufficiently developed to let him go.

Nobody is going to convince me it makes any sense to cut Lamarr Woodley prior to June 1st and its highly unlikely that I will ever think its a good idea after that either.

 

Letter, email -- they're synonymous in my books. :-*

Not if your name is Rashard Mendenhall.

:[

Did you let Mr. Farrar know that he published inaccurate stats and statements in his article? I'd be curious to see what he has to say about that. Nice work Beach. *THUMBSUP*

 

I read, per Behind the Steel Curtain/SB Nation link below referencing Pro Football Focus stats, that Pouncey was only the 12th rated center at best last year. He has been injury prone (I understand some of them are not his fault but usually after significant injuries as he's had you don't improve as a player). As far as I can tell, nobody is saying that Pouncey stinks. Many Steeler fans are just saying that he is overrated, which isn't that hard to believe when the guy is made out to be downright infallible by some as pointed out in the article below. His salary is high for an offensive lineman at over $5.5 million next year, so could we get more value out of the center position with Velasco and that Cody-what's-his'name guy since they played about as well as the 2012-2013 version of Pouncey? I read it would only cost just over $1 million to cut him. But also per Rotoworld, "Pouncey is signed through 2014. He should be back as Pittsburgh's starting center next year." After that, I would imagine all bets are off as to what will happen, but I bet he is gone after 2014 unless he takes a huge pay cut.


http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...AIiq8gK0yTvkZooI5S3EznQ&bvm=bv.58187178,d.aWc

"It's been heresy to knock Maurkice Pouncey since the first drill of his first camp, but he was graded by Pro Football Focus as no higher than the NFL's 12th-best center in 2012, and, more to the point, he's been brittle.

Whether he can do the job isn't the issue. It's getting it done.

Fernando Velasco has done it. He has been solid from his first snap despite coming in cold as a free agent after Pouncey was lost for the season in the opener. Velasco provided immediate stability, he's only gotten stronger, and the Steelers are the better for it."


Here are some other sites that make reference to Maurkice Pouncey being just a little better than average in 2012:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...ZAqK6o8QvGOLb0jVlKIIZ9Q&bvm=bv.58187178,d.aWc

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...r1BqhGpwtxGH8hGlyoxRVOA&bvm=bv.58187178,d.aWc

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...350Ks_RKzoQN-KemI6vtM4A&bvm=bv.58187178,d.aWc


Maybe there's a way to refute all of that information too?

Here's a pretty good article discussing the whole scenario (and not just from my perspective):

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=pouncey's%20salary%20compared%20to%20other%20centers&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCsQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.behindthesteelcurtain.com%2F2013%2F12%2F18%2F5194400%2Fplay-money-exploring-steelers-guards-centers-and-nfl-salary-cap&ei=B97JUsCvM6bbyQH1-YDYCw&usg=AFQjCNGGCKKdNi5CA8A4VtXGR40iqt2giw&bvm=bv.58187178,d.aWc


I think we all can agree on one good thing about the 2013 season: Andy Dalton has sucked in the playoffs and today is more proof of that! And since his "regular season" stats were so good they will probably keep him around for years to come at a high salary eventually despite the fact that it's the greatness of many players around him and a really good defense that cause him to look pretty good in the regular season.

 

The Ugly: seeing the crap azz Bengals get blown off the field by the. Chargers knowing the Chargers should have been the ones at home watching our azzes blow out the Bengals. I really believe they paid the Chargers back for the BS call that helped the. Ravens beat them last year. It took 3 very bad calls for the Chargers to beat the Chiefs backups. Now the Chargers go to Denver where Manning will probably choke and at least keep them in the game. If we went to Denver we would actually be an improved defense because Clark wouldn't play and we would put a real FS on the field for once this season . We would have had a legitimate shot at playing in the AFCCG , WTF!

 

No need to refute anything. Most of that was opinion and everyone is entitled to theirs. And unlike Farrar's article
they gave accurate PFF rankings. But if we're going to place so much value in PFF's rankings it's only fair to see how Valesco ranked this year playing the same position (in the same scheme) as Pouncey did the year before:

Pouncey 2012 - 12th
Valesco 2013 - 25th

Curious that the authors above published Pouncey's most recent ranking but asked us to take them on their word on Valesco.

 

More Ugly, we will have to listen to Phil Simms and Jim Nantz polish Brady's knob for 4 hours next week-end. I am hoping Andrew Luck and TY Hilton spoil the Patsy Party. Watching Danny Woodhead yesterday, he was a difference maker for the Chargers. Thank Kev, for going out and signing LSH.. oh boy.

 

That is interesting about Valesco's grade for 2013. Do you have a link? I still think it is noteworthy that Pouncey/Valesco graded comparibly in 2012 despite the. Scheme differences. How did Cody Whathisname grade out for 2013?

Again, not saying Pouncey isn't our best option for 2013 but considering salary and all other variables we have been discussing, it us a fair question to ask I think.

 

Do you have $29.00?

http://www.profootballfocus.com/

Zone blockers always grade out better at PFF because they don't block a man, they block a zone. They are running with the blocker not trying to move him out of a hole. That's why I always say I really like the stats PFF supplies but you can't look at their rankings as gospel. Players that are limited in what they can do when often grade out higher than guys who can do more because coaches play to their strengths.

Reminds me of a story I read about Arians scheming up some running plays and the old Steelers running back coach interjecting, "We can't block that!". I've watched a lot of Max Unger over the last year because of an ongoing conversation over at the Pit.Scout site. I went game by game trying to find a highlight of Max blocking a nose tackle one-on-one on a running play and it took me several games just to find one. Why? Cause they know he can't do it! They're not going to game plan to block the nose with their center if they know he's going to get beat.

Remember in the Super Bowl when Mendenhall fumbled? It's a play they ran all year. Legursky was supposed get outside and pin the DE and David Johnson then kicks out the linebacker. Legursky couldn't get there. He was slow out of his stance and Cullen Jenkins beat Legursky to the spot and was able to get in the path of Johnson - game over. If there were another game after the Super Bowl you can bet that's a play that would have come out of the playbook because Legursky is too damn slow.

Same thing with Velasco and Wallace. Everyone looks at the collective improvement of the o-line and they think, "Screw it, we don't even need Pouncey." What they don't know is how many things the Steelers didn't even try to do because they didn't have a center that could do all the things Pouncey does. And because they ask him to do so much there are times when he's going to fail. He's a great player but he's not Super Human.

Every guy that competes in the high jump at the next Olympics will fail to jump over the last height they jump. If we grade them all on how many times they failed they will all get they same grade. One guy will get the gold medal because he attempted to do something the others weren't even qualified to attempt. But in the end he will still fail.

Cody Wallace's first game (Miami) he had a -5.2 PFF rating. That's literally as bad as it gets. The Steelers coaches asked too much of him. They went back to the film, saw what he could do and what he couldn't do and he improved to a -2.5 against the Bengals. Same thing the following week and next thing you know he has a +2.5 grade. The following week it was +2.6. If he had 16 weeks like Weeks 16 & 17 he would have been the #1 Center in football (per PFF) because they simply didn't ask him to do what they would ask of a more talented and physically gifted player.

That got incredibly lengthy ^^^^. Hope it makes sense.

He played 15 snaps.

As I hinted to above you have to look at the things the Steelers were not able to do with him out of the lineup - not what they did.

One example: In the Steelers scheme they often ask their guards to double the NT and then scrape to the linebackers. All teams do this, it's not unique because there aren't many dominant centers in football but go put on a tape of the Jets and watch Nick Mangold play. Or put on some film of Pouncey in 2012. A lot of times they won't even bother with the double-team. They'll just release the Guard to the second level because they trust those guys to make that block one-on-one. Obviously that's a lot more effective because it allows the guard to hit the linebacker 3-4 yards downfield. Some of the best LBs in football will read that run and hit the hole before the guard can ever get off his double team. Having a guard free to run right at the LB eliminates that possibility.

Anyway, it's pretty hard convincing anyone of anything around here but I hope this helps somewhat. Don't think in terms of what the Steelers did in '13. Imagine what they might have done had they had one of the most talented centers in the NFL.

 

Good explanation of how misleading those rankings and ratings can be. Thanks Beach!

Wallace played much better than anybody expected. I like the fight in DR Wallace. Pouncey will be a huge upgrade but I hope they keep the Dr. around.

 

I hope they have all 3 guys that started for us at center this season next season.

 

That might be one of the best posts I have ever read in here! Perfectly explained. Thank you beach.

It is so easy as a fan to look at the team result and think that one player is better than another based on that team result.

It takes a great knowledge of the game and alot of time and effort to understand the schematic difference that one player brings to the team over another and what value that has.

 

I know I have said it before...Pouncey, prior to this year, had missed 3 regular season games in 3 seasons. David DeCastro, using a blocking scheme that they hardly used the rest of the year, shredded his knee and he's not worth keeping around because he's injury prone? And this injury won't be any different to recover from than any other routine ACL injury. This is 2014, not 1974. An ACL injury is pretty much a guaranteed recovery, especially for a lineman.

Not buying what you're selling on this one. Woodley, sure, I can see the argument. The guy has been hurt for 3 straight years and hasn't lived up to his big contract yet. Of course, I think I've made it pretty clear how stupid it would be to cut Woodley right now, too, but that is primarily because of his contract.

Pouncey is a different story. He is the unquestioned leader of the OL. He is a top 5 Center in the league. Can the team win without him? Sure, I think they can, but they are better with him than they are without him. One year on IR because his teammate cut blocked him is no reason to get rid of one of the best Center's in the league.

In fact, you work out a long term deal with him this offseason! He should be more agreeable to a long term contract going into the final year of his deal coming off of major surgery. Certainly, he'll be a better deal right now than he will be in 2015 as a free agent coming off another Pro Bowl and All Pro season!

 

Pouncey has played in 46 of 64 games and of course the bulk of that was this season on a freak injury. Not quite sure you qualify as injury prone when a teammate takes out your leg. Unlucky maybe but not injury prone.

 

Here is a dynamite article on the state of the Steelers... this is part 3 of a multi-part assessment... way too long to repost here so you need to follow the link:

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.co...tain&utm_medium=nextclicks&utm_campaign=blogs

 

Here is Part 1:

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.co...rs-2013-final-part-one-a-funny-thing-happened