The Ditch part deux

Brent Severyn is better, besides hes southpaw

 

Kessel has been a much bigger presence this year than seguin, and the B's would love to have a sniper like him right now.

 

I just watched a replay of the Zibanejad goal that was upheld after review. I hate these types of goals because they bring up the "distinct kicking motion" terminology that seems to have no "distinct" criteria. Going by what I've seen so far from the War Room this could have gone either way. The language in this rule allows for too much grey area and as a result rulings have been inconsistent. I hate it. Fix the wording or change the rule completely.

People aren't even talking about the game right now; just the "botched" call. The NHL could use less "referees suck" and more "your team sucks" around this time of year. So far much of the talk in these playoffs has been about the officiating rather than the games themselves.

 

Goals have been called off for less than that kick.

 

Ya Im surprised the Zibinajed goal was upheld also. If the same thing happened in Montreal would it have been upheld?

As for the Kessel thing, we're beating a dead horse. Kessel had 20 goals while being -3 this year, Seguin had 16 goals and +23. Suffice to say, I strongly disagree.

 

Lol, outside of Vancouver?

 

so sad to see the Canucks out. at least the Sedins started their off season a couple weeks ago.....zing!!!!!!

 

Matty, did you just go +/-? You're leaving me no choice but to prop up Kessel. I'll see your +/- and I'll raise you "fullgeek".

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...+36+37+38+39+40+47+48+49+50+51+52+53+54+55+56

Kessel has had it rougher and performed better given the circumstances, compare Kessel's to Seguin's.

 

Shocked they let AV on the plane. Thought he would have been fired by now. Canuck nation whining about the refs on a level I can barely believe. It was a SWEEP when you had home ice!!

Blackhawks fan's breakfast is a little tastier this morning. So many jokes to share and not enough Vancouver fans to share them with.

 

Matty, is Julien going to do anything different tonight? I like their plan of letting Phil hang out with the puck around the blueline, but are there going to be any other adjustments?

Are we going to see more "Toronto Stronger" posters?

 

thats essentially chinese to me bob, not sure how to read it. does this mean that Bozak is better than both?

 

Im hoping Claude switches up that 3rd line, don't think he will though. Jagr just doesn't fit here. Its a team of guys that play tight, defensive minded hockey. The beauty in it is that everyone buys in and they can all count on that... Except for Jagr. 2 of the goals given up in game 2 were direct turnovers from Jagr in the D zone that lead to Toronto goals. Too much wheeling and dealing in the offensive zone and hope passes for playoff hockey.

Kinda silently killing the Bruins over the past few weeks is the PK. They were the #1 unit in the league all season and then it just sort of all fell apart. Maybe the book is out on how to beat the Bruins on the PP, seems like the Bruins Fs in the Dzone are not getting up top to pressure the other team's Dmen quickly enough.

 

That's hillarious Matty, this year kessel had a breakout year as a playmaker, he had 32 assists, he's thread the needle on many great passes, you've totally ignored this. As far as the plus/minus, alot of this falls on the defense, half of the leafs D is ahl material, and they managed to get by with them.

If you want to compare the two through the last 3 years, then you have a case, but if you look at this year, sorry, you're ignoring kessels emergence as an overall player, he was -3, but also you have to look at how much he improved on that stat, year over year.

 

I don't spend much time on it outside of it being a quick reference/smell check, mostly to see how a coach uses the player.
And now opinions from my rear end:

Consider Corsi numbers and Qoc, Qot, etc. to be less crappy forms of +/- when evaluating players. Like most of the stats, you (well, me) take a player, evaluate them, and bounce every number there is out there off of them and see what raises and eyebrow and then you dig into the stat and that part of the player's game to find out if the stat is b.s., if it is plugged into or out of a useful context, etc. Then I usually look for more stats that aren't tracked. Anyway, that's how I see it and use all that stuff when I hide from meaningful tasks for the sake of dwelling on the NHL. Hockey is too much of a team sport to use individual stats without putting them up against the entire team's statistics. I love the stats, but I really hate using them on their own or in a limited context.

 

Hmmm, I'll watch the pp and pk closely. I haven't been too engaged in the series.

 

Sharks are going to win the cup.

2010-Hawks eliminated Van
2011-Boston elimitanted Van
2012-LA eliminated Van

 

I did notice the amount of assists Phil had this season and it definitely surprised me.

I could just as easily spin the +/- and say that Toronto scored more goals than Boston did this year. Phil also played nearly 3 more minutes per game than Seguin did. Pretty confident that if Seguin played for Torono he'd have more points than he does for Boston and conversely Kessel would have less points if he played for Boston.

There are only a small handful of players in the league who are less likely to help their team out in the non-offensive zones than Phil Kessel does. He more than shies away from contact and regularly is caught being lazy on the back check. Not as bad as Semin but he's in the conversation.

 

the numbers there are interesting bob but they'll never trump what you can see from watching players repeatedly w/ your own eyes. of course stats can help evaluate a player and do it relative to their team but there aren't stats for many facets of the game like hockey sense, determination, willingness to play the body/give up the body, bad decision making, and team 1st play.

 

Im having a Corsi overload.

 

All those things still have to be quantified. Strength differnential, size differential, system, tendencies of opponent, probabilities, skill level of opponent, etc. Hockey senses look different against different skill sets imo, so I would call that a relative term, it has to be compared, can't do that without some sort of quantitative analysis, even if it's not "geeked up" with equations. I agree that intangibles can't be quantified because then they would be tangibles, no substitute for eyes there.

I think I found where most of our difference of opinion lies. When it comes to prepping for drafting or rating the skill of an individual player, I think the eye test is FAR superior over quantifiables. For the sake of picking a team without having to consider money, I would pick the eyes over stats.

When it comes to making a team more likely to win games, I think an even mix is most appropriate.

When it comes to writing and evaluating contracts at the pro-level, I think weighing an eye test over metrics is the quickest way to sink a franchise. If financial restrictions are not involved, I would say you can get away with dismissing stats. Trying to manage the NHL without heavy emphasis on statistics, metrics, and quantities is a really bad idea. When money, like a hard budget, is involved, I think stats (advanced, kung-fu style, not NHL.com stats) trump eyes.

I would always want both.