Steelers Draft and Mel Kiper sucks thread!!

Ole Miss QB Chad Kelly plays like a shorter Ben Roethlisberger at times. Despite his recent problems with Twitter, he could be someone to watch. Currently ranked somewhere in the 20s on most big boards.

 

Note to self - never draft a SEC kicker

 

With Le'Veon Bell's future with the team in question, we need to be looking at players like Stanford's Christian McCaffrey. Bell is a special talent, but McCaffrey has a first-round grade with both the running and receiving capabilities we've come to expect from Bell. Low demand for backs in today's NFL could cause him to fall into the late 20s (or later) which would allow us to easily pick him up.

 

Is it time to start looking for a future franchise QB?
Bens been through alot in his career and is getting older.
IMO a true franchise QB should be taken now and groomed for the next 2 or 3 years.

 

With the escalation of QB salaries "grooming" a guy isn't the best model anymore IMO. You need production from QBs before they become a ball and chain on your salary cap. Personally, I'd rather they ride out Ben until it's clear it's over and then look seriously for his successor. Along the way if they find a diamond in the rough in the mid-rounds then that's great but I can't see investing an early pick on a guy unless he just absolutely falls to you like Aaron Rodgers did. This of course is assuming they pick well early in the next few drafts and build the team around Ben. They've done a pretty good job the last few years of that.

 

I agree with Beach. You roll with Ben until he's done, then find the QB. It will be easier to draft that top QB the year after Ben falters anyways because we'll be likely to be picking higher in the draft. Pretty hard to find that future franchise guy at pick 32!

 

I like this scenario as it means Ben goes out Elway/Manning style (preferably Elway as he won two before stepping away)

 

In a situation where you have an entrenched starter, this is what I see as the new 'business' approach to finding a franchise quarterback as well.

Continuing to build pieces around the starter until he can no longer get it done also makes the transition to the next quarterback easier as the talent on the roster will cover his early deficiencies.

 

It's Aaron Rodgers and that situation I was thinking about.
I agree with the salary cap point of view but what worries is Ben saying I've done it all , my body hurts it's time.
I'd hate to see us in a simular situation like when Jeff Hartings retired.

 

Good point Tim

 

That specific situation would be difficult to pass on but it also creates a different problem if that quarterback appears ready within 3 seasons, Roethlisberger is showing little to no signs of slowing and has made no mention of retiring.

If a quarterback is available in the mid to late 20s that should have gone in the early teens then BPA may dictate taking that player.

I think the question I would ask you breed is if you think a quarterback that is a high second round value would be a solid investment if taken roughly a half round earlier? I would like to read your opinion on it because I can see an argument for making that decision.

 

That wasn't lack of preparation, it was poor talent evaluation. They thought they had their future guy in Okobi, even gave him a second contract. But he was awful.

 

Tim, I'm not sure reaching would be ideal but like you said if a QB is BPA in the first 2 rounds then pull the trigger.
However,I do agree with beach about the salary cap and having to pay 2 QB'S.
What would be a late first or 2nd round Qb contract estimate?

 

If you were Ben and have been in the league 12 years, won 2 Superbowls, broke all the Steelers QB records, RICH beyond belief, have so many injuries its hard to keep tract of, would play past year 15?

 

Johnny Manziel - 2014 Pick 22 - 4 years, 8.2M + 5th year option available
Teddy Bridgewater - 2014 Pick 32 - 4 years, 6.8M + 5th year option available
Derek Carr - 2014 Pick 36 - 4 years 5.4M
Jimmy Garoppolo - 2014 Pick 62 - 4 years, 3.5M
Paxton Lynch - 2016 Pick 26 - 4 years, 9.5M + 5th year option available
Christian Hackenberg - 2016 Pick 51 - 4 years, 4.7M

 

That is a lot of cap room to spend.
As we see, every year, the search for a Fanchise QB isn't an easy thing.
Do you think Ben will play effectively, for Ben, past 2019?
One of his strongest attributes it's his ability to elude or push off a tackler.

This isnt a Ben bashing, he's an awesome QB and I'd like him to play forever but we waited SO long for a good franchise QB, waiting again will stink!
I did make it through the Bubba years but....

 

It's certainly affordable to draft a guy late 1st or early 2nd but that's not where the problem lies. This issue for me is the one the Redskins faced in the offseason. They drafted Cousins in the 4th round and he mostly sat and developed.

After 4 years they still weren't sure if he was a franchise guy but because of his impending free agency they had to either back the brinks truck up to his door or tag him for 20M. They chose the latter and now they will be in an even worse position next offseason. They will have to pay him 22-24M per season or tag him again at 24M.

Is Cousins worth that kind of money? I don't believe he is and even with his breakout season in '15 I don't believe the rest of the league does either. So the Redskins found themselves competing with themselves. They offered him 12M per season, then 14M and eventually 16M and Cousins turned them all down because he knew ultimately the tag would give him 20M in one year and set him up for an even bigger payday the following year.

I've kind of gone off on a Kirk Cousins tangent but my point is drafting a QB that is going to sit for 2-3 years is a tough sell for me because of free agency and the ridiculous money needed to retain free agent QBs who haven't necessarily proven themselves to be franchise guys. I don't want to overpay.

And in spite of the every growing need for good QBs recent history suggests they are available after the Top 15 picks. Recently:

Dak Prescott - 135th pick
Paxton Lynch - 26th pick
Trevor Siemian - 250th pick
Jimmy Garoppolo - 62nd pick
Derek Carr - 36th pick
Teddy Bridgewater - 32nd pick
Russell Wilson - 75th pick

 

Cousin's wasn't drafted to be the franchise QB, Giffin was.
I'm not completely sure why they drafted him other than a need for backup. Still it didn't make sense but I get your point.

Anyone else have input on this?

BTW, Walter's early Mock has the Steelers taking an ILB in the 1st and a RB in the 2nd. I can't get behind these at all.

 

That's kinda beach's point. Here they had a QB that they drafted and hoped to develop into a quality player. That development happened, but they really weren't 100% sure what they had with him heading into a contract year. Then they had to decide whether to pay him big money or not based of a very small sample size.

That's exactly what a team has to deal with drafting a QB for the future. If you draft a guy to develop behind Ben, at some point you will have to decide whether to pay him like a starting QB or let him walk without much to go on. Its far more desirable to wait until Ben is ready to retire, then draft the kid and let him learn on the fly. At least if he flames out, he flames out on his rookie deal, not some $15M/year second contract that you had to pay him without knowing how good he really was.

As for Walter's picks, I see the logic. Bell and Timmons are both UFAs. Shazier can't stay healthy, so an ILB is certainly a need for this team if Timmons doesn't return on a reasonable contract...which I think he will. Le'Veon Bell, I believe, is back next year as well, which would eliminate the need to draft a RB so early too. However, right now, you can't count on either of those things, which makes both positions a need.

 

Unfortunately imo the Steelers need to work on the DL.
They cant find good enough LB that can pass rush so 4-3 DL type might be the way for this team to go