Steelers Draft and Mel Kiper sucks thread!!

Pitt's draft w 2 names top 3 rounds

Round 1-Vernon Butler or William Jackson
Round 2- Jeremy Cash or Karl Joseph
Round 3- Javon Hargrave or Carl Nassib

 

The Eagles' trade with the Browns is a prime reason why the Eagles are one of the worst organizations in the NFL, and it's partially why the NFC East is such a horrible division now. Carson Wentz/Jared Goff is not worth trading away a franchise's future. The Browns need a QB too, but they robbed the Eagles in this trade.

 

Agreed!

 

The Browns wont have anything to show for it in 5 years.

 

demo - considering the eagles recent draft picks and scouting, what are they throwing away? how many of all nfl draft picks work out? 10%, 5%, 2%? They believe in Wentz is their future and dealt picks away to seal their future for better or could be sealing the coffin shut if he is a bust. And considering what the Rams gave up, the Eagles didn't do that poorly.

worst organizations? a stadium that season tix sales are booked for the next 10 yrs.

top 10 in merchandising sales?

they may not be winning any Super Bowls soon, but their organization if far from being the worst in the league when you have teams wanting to move and stadiums half empty!

 

"Worst" has little to do with their financial success. I was talking in terms of success on the field. It's a franchise of mediocrity sans the Andy Reid era, and they fired him for failing to produce with one of the most injury-ravaged rosters in the NFL. They stuck with Chip Kelly and his goofy system for a year too long, which would have been fine had Kelly not been a tyrant who blew up the roster and who seemed to believe the only players who were attainable played football on the west coast. Sure, they could use a new QB, but they could also use a new left tackle, new receivers, new running backs, 4-3 defensive personnel, and a new GM. That GM traded up twice this offseason, giving away virtually all of the Eagles' picks for the forseeable future to two different teams. A team that would do something like that can't be trusted to evaluate players, and I certainly don't believe Carson Wentz of all people is worth it.

The Browns need a QB at least as much as the Eagles do and clearly had no issue making this trade. In other words, they didn't like Wentz that much.

The Redskins did this in 2012. The player they did it for is no longer on the team. They made the playoffs last year by winning the NFL's worst division and were promptly eliminated in the wild card round on the arm of a different QB. Mortgaging the future on a rookie has a long history of failure, yet incompetent GMs trying to do too much repeat that mistake on a regular basis.

 

How many times have teams sold the farm for a PROSPECT ?
It doesn't work!!
Ask Mike Ditka ?

 

The Browns don't have the best track record of QB evaluation over the past few drafts. I think Wentz is going to be a pretty good NFL QB. The Browns picked up RGIII a proven bust that they hope can be salvaged instead.

Maybe the Browns use one of their picks to get Lynch or Cook. Maybe they like those two guys better than either of the predicted top two QBs.

 

You wouldn't want to bet on that would you? If so, let me know........

I'm pounding the table for Eli Apple, unless they sign Norman who I think they can't afford. Apple will be much cheaper, can cover, is fast, break up passes, and is one of the youngest players in this draft (20 yrs. old). The only thing he doesn't like to do is tackle....His fellow players at OSU voted him the MVP in their Bowl game. He's worth the risk imo.......If the Steelers signed Norman, which I doubt, they could hope Billings falls to them........

 

I like Goff better than Wentz to go 1st overall also! Philly will end up with Wentz imo.........

 

igloo-that's what i was saying on the cowboys thread. i don't think lynch or cook are that much farther apart then from goff or wentz. i think the eagles should've stayed at 8 for cook or lynch or traded backwards and got him in the teen picks or in the 20's etc.

demo-if you would've seen my comments as an eagles fan on the NFL news thread, i have been against even a sniff of the trade to #2. im in full agreement with you to NOT mortgage the future at any cost. That's why I work in an office and they are in the NFL Front office.

 

Can't and won't argue about the Browns' historical inability to evaluate a QB.

HOWEVER: None, zero, nada , nilch of the current Browns' front office had anything whatsoever to do with prior QB evaluations.

I, personally, wasn't wet my pants excited for either Goff or Wentz. If I had to pick one or the other, I probably would have gone with Goff as he appears to be more "NFL ready" coming out of the chute. Neither may or may not develop into a top tier QB but Wentz has been described as having a higher ceiling. (read: higher potential)

But, from where I'm sitting, I would not spend the #2 overall pick for a QB that only might reach the level of that "high ceiling". I think the Browns made the right move by adding picks to build the roster.

 

I thought the Browns fleeced the Eagles and good for them! I don't think the trade says anything at all about what the Browns thought of the QB prospects. Maybe they loved Goff and Wentz, maybe they didn't. Maybe they loved just one of the two. However, when you have a chance to add to your talent pool with that many quality picks over the next couple of years, its hard to say no. They still have the 8th pick in this draft and a couple extra picks later, plus they will now have two first rounders next year! Maybe they get their QB of the future with one of those picks, who knows? What I do know is that this is a strong draft all around and the Browns did the right thing by picking up those extra picks.

Well done Cleveland!

 

I agree, I believe Cleveland made the right move, they need a lot of help. Maybe RGIII pans out, maybe he doesn't. If he doesn't Cleveland will be picking in the top again. The Eagles need way more than just a QB. They could very well be worse next year also. Cleveland realistically could have 2 picks in the top 5 next year.

 

I'll take a potential franchise QB over 5 draft picks. I don't see why everyone thinks Cleveland "won" this trade, isn't it a little early? Philadelphia went and GOT the QB they wanted. The Browns will take a bunch of college kids, I'm sure get great "reviews" from the media, but nobody out of the group they draft will be as VALUABLE as having a franchise QB. Time will tell on this deal. There's absolutely no point in saying who won or lost this trade now. However, I will take a franchise QB over a bunch of role players any day of the week. The only way Cleveland "wins" this trade, is if Carson Wentz (or Goff, but I think it'll be Wentz to Philly) completely busts. On the contrary, what if Wentz is a star in the league? Like he very well could be? Then who won the trade? It's pretty obvious to me.

 

So, to back that up with some data. Yeah, Cleveland has the 8th pick now. WhooWhee they really screwed Philly, right? Take a look at the 8th picks over the 5 year span on 09-13 (didn't use 2014 or 2015 because they're too recent to tell on some).

8th picks from 2009-2013:

2009: Eugene Monroe - Jaguars drafted him, then traded him to Baltimore for a 4th and 5th round pick 3 years later. Decent starter, I guess? But definitely has not lived up to a top 10 pick.

2010 Rolando McClain - Complete head job, has found a home in Dallas, but certainly has not justified being a top 10 pick, or even a first round pick.

2011 Jake Locker - No explanation needed. BUST.

2012 Ryan Tannehill - Decent QB, may be high at #8, but he Dolphins could be way worse off at QB. *Cough* Like the BROWNS *Cough*

2013 Tavon Austin - Small. Weak. Good return man. Average/Decent WR. Not worth the #8 pick.


My point is, that nobody is a winner or loser, yet. Like I said, depends on what Wentz does in his career and how these draft picks pan out. But Philadelphia got their guy, they're certainly not losers in this deal, yet.

 

Probably because Cleveland has the chance to field a better "team" than Philly does with this trade. With more draft picks, the Browns have more of a chance to add quality players.

Yes the "Franchise QB" argument makes sense but how often is that all you need? Peyton is considered by many to be the best ever, but when did he win those two superbowls? 2006 when the running game and defense carried his 3 TD 7INT performance to a superbowl and last season when everybody acknowledged he was a shell of his former self but had one of the best defenses of the last decade.

Maybe the Browns don't feel the a guy like Paxton Lynch isn't that much below Goff/Wentz, who knows. Getting that 3rd or 4th QB in a draft doesn't mean you're missing out. The 2004 and 2012 drafts are examples of teams getting the perceived #3/#4 QBs and having more success because they also fielded better teams overall.

The Browns could flop with all those picks (See Julio Jones trade) and only time will tell, but they definitely won trade

 

I'm guessing the Browns won this trade with all the picks because from everything I've read, theres no Luck, Manning, Roethlisberger, or even Flacco in this draft. Although possibly one could surpass Flacco, but I'm doubting it. I agree with R_1 and that most could end up as backups. And a backup in the NFL is the best job in the U.S.A. to have according to a study done by some company (forget the name). Dentist was 2nd on their list......

 

Again, if Wentz is indeed a franchise QB. Like many scouts, GMs, and particularly the Eagles feel like. And in 3-4 years the Browns are still looking for a QB, who's the winner then?

Nobody can say right now that either team "won" this trade, you just can't do it. That's like saying the Giants won next years super bowl, because they added a boatload of free agents. Time will tell.

 

Would you really want to roll the dice with the 1st or 2nd round pick and possibly ruin your team for years by giving away many of your picks? Who are all these teams and people that think theres great QB in this draft? The Browns, who need a QB most, are willing to not even take a chance and would rather have all the picks. The only teams vying for these guys are teams that are desperate for a QB.......Except the Browns of course. And they are desperate, but not that desperate......