Steelers Draft and Mel Kiper sucks thread!!

At pick 25 doubtful that guy is going to be there if there is even one in the draft to begin with.

 

Timmons can move outside.

 

Doesn't matter what they do with Timmons in this hypothetical. The whole concept of BPA is that you improve your team wherever you can. IF (yes, the huge, capital IF) you got someone better than Timmons, he would be a game-changer. A guy so disruptive he would dominate opposing offenses and win football games for the Steelers. You never, never turn down a great player because of the position he plays. Is that guy in the draft this season? I haven't seen him, but I don't see the tape the scouts see.

Colbert and company identify several "special" players each year, and if one of those special players is available when they pick it makes no difference whether he plays ILB, C, RB, WR, etc. They will pick him.

 

He's moved outside before hasn't he? Earlier in his career? For a couple of games, if I'm not mistaken.

 

This scenario is re-tread every year. By now most of us are aware of this mantra of "they will pick the best player available regardless of position," which is not absolute and has almost never been acted upon early in the draft during the Colbert era (Mendenhall came close, but you could say that was a position of need as Willie Parker was coming off a fractured tibia and we had nothing behind him). We already have two very solid, very talented inside linebackers with bodies to spare behind them. To be credible at all, you need to be sure you're picking the next Lawrence Taylor x2 to justify a first-round ILB pick, especially if they re-sign Sean Spence, of which there is none to speak of in this draft. Reggie Ragland could be the best ILB available if he's even still on the board @25, and he's a downhill defender who's not even as talented as C.J. Mosley.

I know what you're trying to say. It's just pointless entertaining the notion when we all know it's not happening.

 

They didn't "need" ILB when they picked Shazier either. They didn't "need" WR when they picked Bryant, or Coates (granted, they were not #1 picks). We have no real clue who they are targeting and who will be available at 25. My point is that you do not discount any position if there is a perception it can be upgraded or solidified. We've been fooled before.

 

I doubt the Steelers draft a QB, C, WR, or RB in the first round no matter who is there. I think it's BPA at an area of needs and that will be defense again.

 

I don't buy that, if Todd Gurley was there at out pick last year he would have been a Steeler. BPA all positions, if a QB like Aaron Rogers fell to us at #25 you can bet your ass he will be on the sideline holding a clipboard. The only position outside of kicker & punter that wouldn't get touched is WR, because we are blessed with 5 studs and a good STs player at that position. This is Rd one I am ranting about so no one gets confused.

 

Why not take a stud WR if he is available? Markus Wheaton has one year left on his contract. It will be hard to keep both Martavis Bryant and Antonio Brown. We don't know whether Coates will pan out. This could go from position of strength to position of weakness in 2 years.

Le'veon Bell has been injured the last two seasons - at what point do you call that a trend? He plays a very physical position and plays a lot of snaps; how much will the team have to pay him to stay around? And if he decides his career will be short enough to demand top dollar, he will likely leave Pittsburgh. Don't you want someone ready to share his load the way D. Williams did this season, and to take over if/when Bell leaves as a free agent?

I will accept there are no sure things at QB, C, or RB who will be there at 25. Not even ILB. But to me the discussion is more about the concept than how it will pan out this year. I know this comes up every year, but every year I hear the same reasons why "they won't look at position X", and I just don't agree unless you are talking QB, which Colbert rules out pretty much every year since Ben arrived.

 

The Packers got Rogers when Favre was still in town. At this point in Ben's career I would believe the Steelers would do the same if quality fell to them.
Also I went back and watched Coates catches with us and his college highlites. He should be a good fit in our system. I know everyone says he had a lot of drops in college, but the highlites showed some very impressive catches. After Coates catches the ball he reminds me more of a RB rambling down the field but faster. At 6'1" 212#s he is pretty well built for a WR. I think we pick WRs too well in the 3rd or later rds to pick one in the first. We have the best WR core in the league with none being picked in the first Rd, in fact I believe only Coates was picked by us earlier than Rd 3.

 

You mean you would've been fine if we rolled into 2014 with Stevenson Sylvestor and an over-aggressive Vince Williams who would be taken out in passing situations anyway? We did need an ILB, bad, when we drafted Shazier. Thanks to the improvement of Williams and the rehab of Spence, we're now stacked at the position, but there was never any promise that we would be.

We did "need" a WR in 2014, or else we would've had to roll with Antonio Brown and no one else.

We did "need" a WR in 2015 simply because Lance Moore left a hole in the roster we needed to fill. Bryant had promise, but no guarantees, and Wheaton still hadn't shown much at the time.

Again, it's all well and good to preach about how picks come out of left field, but that's not the reality. You can realistically discount certain positions just by looking at the roster. Colbert drafts the right way, meaning he doesn't run solely based on player performances. He doesn't draft rookies with the thought in his mind that they'll be starting right away. Rookies who start immediately on this team are a luxury and a pleasant surprise, but nothing more or less. To draft an inside linebacker @ 25, Colbert needs to believe that he'd be challenging Shazier and Timmons for the starting job. That's just not going to happen.

UNLESS . . .

They don't re-sign Sean Spence, which I don't know why they wouldn't.

 

I'd be curious to see if Sean Spence tries to go somewhere for a starting gig, which if he did, I'd completely support the decision. Perhaps a landing spot in Tennessee?

 

Oh, come on now brother! You REALLY think Gurley would of been taken with Bell and the recently signed D-Will? I promise you we wouldn't go RB in the first round last year nor will we this year. If anything, it would of been prime trading bait. Agreed on WR. Heck, I agree with QB as well. But I think we are really fine at RB, same as WR.

 

Only thing I could see is if they drafted a center who could play LG the first couple of seasons. This being insurance policy for Pouncey as well if the injury bug keeps popping up.

 

The difference I see is that Kevin Colbert has specifically stated that QB is a position they will not consider in round 1 in past years. He will probably say the same thing this year. I am not aware of them publicly ruling out any other position. They have stated they expect Big Ben to play another several years, so drafting a top QB prospect that far in advance probably wouldn't be a great idea (unless Ben winds up with a career-ending injury)

 

Bens rich and beat up guys .
It would be in the teams best interests to draft a 1st round QB if there is one worthy at 25.

Drafting Shazier was the wrong decision
Paying the money it takes to keep two 1st round draft picks at ILB is wrong.
Williams might be a little slow but is solid and strong.
Drafting another 1st round ILB is wrong when you have quite few other needs.

Drafting a 1st round WR would be equally wrong.

Just my opinion

 

If that is how it worked out I would have been disappointed. I wanted CJ Mosley. But there are probably a dozen other players I would have been happy with at pick 15 that year. As it turns out, both Shazier and Mosley were great picks and he is having an impact on the defense so that's a great thing.

I disagree that WR was more of a "need" than any other position. It was certainly a position of want, and I was clamoring for Bryant in round 3 - I was really pissed when they didn't pick him then.

Way to cheapen the argument. Nobody indicated they threw darts at a dartboard. The goal of the draft is to improve your roster not only for today, but also for the following several years, for the very reason you stated:

Exactly. You have to keep a steady stream of players coming in who can learn, develop, and be ready to fill the void of players who leave in free agency, or due to injury, or for any other reason.

But not necessarily challenging for the job in 2016. If there is a player available at 25 who they think could improve or solidify the starting ILB group in the next year or two, they will pick him. Lawrence Timmons will be a free agent after 2016, and he will be 30 years old with 10 NFL seasons under his belt. You have to allow for the fact he will start to slow down and give his eventual replacement a couple of years to learn under him.

I think the difference is that you eliminate positions based on the current roster. I take a different angle and eliminate players based on the current roster. If one of Colbert's "special players" is available at 25 they will take him regardless of what position he plays. Heck, if you think the next Jerry Rice, or Ray Lewis, or Alan Faneca is available then you pull that trigger and it makes no difference who is currently on the roster. But you may not want to spend that #1 pick on someone who you don't see as equal to or better than the guys projected as your long-term starters. If there is no ILB in this draft that qualifies as equal to Timmons or Shazier, then don't pick ILB. But don't rule out the position completely because you don't see it as a "need".

 

I think the ILB discussion has to be tabled until we see what they do with Timmons. One thing's for sure, he's not playing under his current deal. I believe they will extend him. Some have said they will ask him to take a pay cut. I'm skeptical on that one because he's a team leader and still only 29. Assuming it's an extension than I agree ILB is very unlikely. If they ask him to take a pay cut and he's a free agent next year ILB could be in play, solely if that player is ILB because I think there's a big drop off from Timmons to Williams.

 

p.s. Should have mentioned I don't believe Spence will be a Steeler next year. He'll want to compete for a starting job and that's unlikely in Pittsburgh. Hope I'm wrong, but I think he'll move on.

 

I don't think there is any way that Lawrence Timmons is not a Steeler for at least another 3 or 4 years. He will be 30 when the season starts and he's still a very good player. He isn't likely going to be looking for bank breaking final contract, so an extension shouldn't be that hard to work out. That virtually eliminates any thoughts of ILB at #25 in my honest opinion. If there was some transcendent player there and he happened to play ILB, maybe they take him, but a player like that will go well before pick #25.

Other than QB, WR and ILB, though, I think everything else is on the table. I could see an argument for a RB...Bell is going into a contract year and has struggled to stay healthy. I could see an argument for an OT or OG. You could make the argument for a TE as well. On defense, they need depth on the DL, they need a pass rusher, they need a Safety and they could certainly use a CB.

I think we can safely eliminate QB, WR and ILB from the first round for this team. AB, Bryant and Coates will make drafting a WR in the round one a real luxury. Like the ILB, it would have to be a crazy talented player that they just couldn't pass up. A Megatron type of player that falls inexplicably. Ben is getting older, but he's the QB for at least the next 4 years. Still too early to be thinking about grooming his replacement. Maybe after the 2017 season at the earliest, in my opinion.

As an aside...is there any plan to structure a War Board this year? With nybites and burghball largely AWOL, I wasn't sure if it was something this group wanted to attempt?