Steelers Draft and Mel Kiper sucks thread!!

Fun question that COULD actually end up happening: If Marcus Peters, Bud Dupree and Landon Collins (and let's be honest..unless something goes very, very wrong this will not happen) are there at 22, who should the Steelers take?

I really think that Peters could be just fine in the right locker room environment. The Steelers have purged much of their "problem children" over the years and are ALWAYS considered one of the best locker room environments (which is why so many players that leave want to come back). I'm sure the team will do their due diligence on a player and, if they feel that his talent is SO good (and it is) that they can bring him into the locker room and have THOSE guys hold him accountable, then I say they should go for it. William Gay is an incredible role model and will be in his ear every day about "proving haters wrong" as the former 5th round pick has done quite well for himself in the NFL.

Bud Dupree is an absolute monster on the field, but the big question on him is work ethic. He seems to be an athlete versus a technician, which is not ALL that uncommon as many of these players coming out of college have been able to rely on their sheer God-given abilities. If the Steelers draft him, I think he can make an immediate impact as a pass rusher, as I fully expect the Steelers to bring A LOT more pressure this year from everywhere. He could stand to lose a few pounds to make make him play a tad faster, but he is at an okay weight for the time being.

Landon Collins is an interesting wild card that MANY people are mocking to the Steelers. Most Steelers faithfuls are coming to terms with the fact that Troy Polamalu is MORE THAN LIKELY retiring from an incredible career in Pittsburgh that will eventually get him a bust in Canton. That being said, the Steelers have some major question marks at the Safety position and Collins could be a plug-and-play guy. He is a big hitter that covers the run incredibly well, but can be a liability in pass coverage.

These are the three guy that have been most closely-associated with the Steelers and I would not be surprised to see the Steelers grab any one of them.

As it stands now, I feel like we should roll the dice with Peters. I don't know if it will work out for the Steelers, as he could very easily become a major distraction for the team, but he could also put all of that behind him and move on with his life. I also understand that Steelers completely bypassing him and letting him be someone else's lottery ticket.

All-in-all, both players are among the best at their position in the draft, fill huge needs for the Steelers, but also come with some question marks.

 

Phuquing IPUD ERASED ALL MY DATA, MY POST, WHISKY TANGO FUXTROT.

 

Here goes again. I am beyond p1ssed off. From memory....

To answer your question Indiana, my answer is Kevin Johnson or Eli Harold. Options D, E. Randy Stoner Gregory failed a drug test, pot, at the combine. His stock just took an ENRON-esque drop and many teams will pass on him. That pushes up Dupreee near the top ten, he will probably NOT be there at 22 becomes NFW with Gregory pulling a wake and bake lifestyle. Heck I don't even know if Harold will be there. Teams 5-10 could all use and Edge rusher, and to be quite honest as good as the 3 top WR are, there is a bigger dropoff in talent in the ER pool afte the top group, as oppsed to the WR group. Second teir WR are better prospects than the second tier edge rushers. In sumation, teams may pass on WR.

I am not a fan of the PG chats, but these beat (off) writers have inside information, they talk to Colbert, Tomlin, Rooney II. From what I am reading, Marcus Peters is not going to be an option at 22. Which CB they covet not named Waynes, not sure, but it is not Peters, could be Johnson out of GT. They are man-crushing over Vic Beasley, but he is not going to be anywhere near 22 and would cost too much to move up.

To continue on this rant and tangent, Eli Harold might be the pick, beach will blow a fuse. I actually likee Preston Smith as a LOLB, due to his ability to be stout vs. the run and is a much bigger cat. O-Diggy doo Dah, protypical, yes, medical clusterphuc as well. I do not care how many PhD's these team doctors have, 2 hip surgeries is a pucking fattern. Anyone who took statistics, or fantasized about being an Accuary, knows that he is very high risk.

I want to discuss the Browns, since Lyman is participating on and off. IMFO, I do not trade up for Marcus Mariotta. He is raw and is not a starter in September. To break the pattern, why not be smart and draft a guy like Sean Mannion later on. I like his game and physically gifted, and it won't cost you the farm to get him on the roster. Sorry but I am giving up on Johnny Maniziel, that money gesture at the draft last year was just confirmation of what we already knew. He is a doosh of biblical proportions whose flamboyant lifestyle off the field will never match his career on the field. He does not have an NFL body, arm, or mentality. He should go into marketting because he sold himself so well to the Browns. In many ways I wish Jerry Jones had picked him.

Continuting on this tangent, rant, post, whatever, the Browns are in good position to help themselves, stay put at 12, 19. Get the best run stuffing beast in Shelton, and then grab a solid Offensive Lineman that can start. If not grab a WR, 19 is a good spot to be on if WR start to slide. Another option is Melvin Gordon, I personallyy would wait until later on, deep RB class. The idea behind this is to effectively run the ball, and take less stress off your schitty QB play until you find the right guy to put behind Alex Mack.

 

Honestly the Browns are only lacking in a few areas post-free agency. Dwayne Bowe believes he'll single-handedly "take the Dawg Pound to the next level," and we at least have to admire the guy's bravado. Nonetheless, he and Brian Hartline are good enough that the Browns don't badly need another receiver in the short term.

The Browns just need QB and front seven help on defense. If they can do what the Chiefs have done and build a team first, QB second, not only would they be doing what I love, but it would help their QB succeed. Even now, the only real difference between the Browns and Chiefs is that the Chiefs have a good front seven spearheaded by the best 3-4 OLB in football. The Browns don't need that, just a group that can stop the run and put pressure on QBs consistently.

Stop targeting players in the first round and trading up every year - stick to your board. It feels like every year the Browns end up with two first-round picks and have barely anything left the rest of the way because the GM got off in his pantaloons over some media darling with question marks and sunk the Browns' chances for another year. The best thing they can do for themselves is to keep both first-round picks and pick the best player available to them at each juncture. Luckily, they can both be front-seven players.

 

Please no! I'd rather see them wait and take an OLB later in the draft than spend a first round pick on Harold.

 

I understand everyone's concerns and that's fine but I would like to point out a few things:

1. Owa is a true strong side OLB. You really can't compare him to the speedy edge rushers in the draft unless you are also willing to compare their ability to stop the run to Owa's. In that scenario, no one really can be compared to him.

2. Owa wasn't strictly an edge rusher in college. They didn't line him up outside 75 times a game and let him get after the QB. They moved him around and had him do other things that included dropping into coverage, playing 5 tech, 3 tech and even some 1 tech. He's a very powerful player who brings a lot more to the football field then sacks.

3. Speaking of sacks, he's not going to be an 15-18 sack guy. That's not his game. I've called him Woodley 2.0 because that's what you'll see from him. He will walk guys into the pocket from both the edge and inside and then when guys get caught on their heels he will occasionally beat them on the edge. He will also start outside, get cut off and redirect inside because he wins with strength and the ability to shed.

4. If the Pittsburgh doctors clear him that's all I need to hear and that's all Colbert needs to hear. If they don't, then we have nothing to worry about. Everything I read said he checked out 100% at the combine which is the most stringent and complete medical check of it's kind.

Good article on that if anyone cares to read: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...o-the-nfl-medical-exam-process-at-the-combine

p.s. The 2nd hip surgery was caused by favoring his injured 1st hip. He has played a full season since then with no setbacks.

 

You know how every now and then you have a guy or two that you just absolutely no aren't going to produce at the level others are predicting? Not to say I'm never wrong but there's just times when I look at a guy and I say to myself, "What can everyone possibly be thinking? This kid is not very good."

The last one that really pops in my head is Brooks Reed. I watched this kid on tape, looked at his incredible combine performance and said to myself that someone was going to overdraft this guy and sure enough the Texans did. Just wasn't very good, nowhere near a 2nd rounder.

That's Eli Harold. The guy is a 3rd round project at best. The measurables are nice and his ceiling looks intriguing but the kid just simply does not whip anyone - ever. Heck, I'd rather have the guy across from him (Max Valles) in the 5th then to spend a 2nd or 3rd on Harold. If we spend a 1st I'll flick the fup out.

 

p.p.s. It's the opinion of some others and I agree that the Steelers fully intend to play more hybrid base defense this year which means they would probably be looking for a guy that can play both 3-4 OLB and 4-3 DE. That kind of guy is naturally going to be more of azzkicker than speed guy. When you can win with 4 d-linemen you can win a lot of football games. They have the interior guys (Heyward, Tuitt). An edge guy that can beat up OTs would be a nice addition.

 

Just to be accurate . . .

The only 1st round QB the Browns selected by trading back up into the 1st round was Brady Quinn. Weeden was drafted using the pick obtained from the Falcons with the Julio Jones draft and Manziel was drafted as a result of the Trent Richardson trade with the Colts. (Yea, they traded up from #26 to #22 but they didn't trade back into the first round). They actually traded down with the Bills last year to pick up their second 1st rounder this year.

Never the less, I'm still a bit baffled with this front office. They let the only QB since their return that had a winning percentage over 50% (62.5%) walk in free agency and instead signed Josh McClown (no, that's not a typo). I still don't get the Thad Lewis signing and I seriously doubt I can ever get behind Johnny Douchbag. Even if he gets his personal life squared away, I still don't think he has the skillset or mental acuity necessary to succeed in the NFL. IMHO, the QB currently on the roster that has the highest upside is, sadly, Conner Shaw.

So . . . if life gives you scraps - make quilts. Given the QB / WR situation in Cleveland, the only ray of hope this year is to run the ball and stop the run and do it better than anyone else. I personally think the secondary is above average but the run D flat fell apart last year. Good teams can handle injuries but the Browns were not yet a good team and it showed. That's why I suggested Danny Shelton at #12 and the best edge rusher at #19. Stop the run, pressure the QB and let the secondary do their thing.

The Browns actually had the money to sign both Brian Bulaga -and- Mike Iupati to shore up the right side of the O-Line. Obviously that didn't happen but they still have over $27M in cap space. (Greco and Schwartz are serviceable but if someone goes down again this year it will be Deja Vue all over again.) If I could sign only one more free agent for 2015, that would be FB John Kuhn. Yep, he's certainly long in the tooth but he can still play the position. Then start targeting O-linemen in the 2nd round and later.

 

You should take another look at it ny. I edited it minutes after you posted this.

 

I also say NO to Eli Harold. Doo wah ziggy doo doo, maybe the pick,, I would rather take the highest CB on the board and look at Nate Orchard, Marcus Golden in round 2, leaning toward Golden quite honestly.

Somewhere in there is Preston Smith, who I think is the perfect highbred OLB/DE with no medical issues know about or off the field crap. Is 22 too early, perhaps, and most def gone by 56, schitt happens,. I also remember Brooks Reed,, never liked him either, but not as bad as Who the Phuque is Buster Davis bad. Here is another guy in this hat of hybrid LB/DE, Anthony Chickillo. You want a guy who will reach out for a tackle with the last gasp of air he has, he is your guy. In the same range, the kid out of Clemson can be a fit later on, Corey Crawford. He was overshadowed, but not invisible. A guy Pittsburgh also likes is Trey Flowers out of Arkansas. The point is let's not put all of our eggs in the Ziggy basket. It depends on how the draft falls and who is to say Marvin Lewis pulls a hoodie and snatches him up at 21. Yeah I know they just resigned Michael Johnson, but 2 freaks on the field together would make O-Coordinators lose sleep. The Steelers seem to like Lorenzo Mauldin, I am luke warm on him and would prefer Flowers.

One thing I mostly agreed with on Dulac's chat was CB, CB, OLB in the first 3 rounds, more or less. Where I had a difference of opinion is no RB in any round. This is a very deep class and later rounds you can find anyone better than Archer. Heck they drafted him to be Special, but all I see is the inability to return kicks, run in space, and provide depth at RB. To me he is the biggest disappointing pick since Landry SUCK Jones. So they like what they have in an unproven practice squad guy, a 30 year old has-been, and a fast little midget for two games, one of which will be at The Pastry Meats. Jeremy Langford or David Johnson make so much sense to me... but I am sitting in my Kitchen on a IPAD, what do I know.

 

I did see it after the fact, but if you replace Clive Walford with Eric Rowe, it would look better to me. Hey it's part of my mock suggestions at who THEY are picking, not who I would pick. Hence, the Marcus Peters campaign I was on needs to take a back seat to Reality World.

 

Honest question Lyman, was it the Browns letting him walk, Hoyer not wanting to stay, or Hoyer asking for too much? Do you have any details? I always liked Hoyer as a Charlie Batch type of player. You can win with him if you have a solid team - which speaks to much of what you posted.

 

WORST STEELERS' MOCK DRAFT OF ALL TIME

1. Dorial Green-Beckham, WR, Oklahoma
2. Devin Funchess, TE, Michigan
3. Daryl Williams, OT, Oklahoma
4. Tyrus Thompson, OG, Oklahoma
5. JaCorey Shepherd, CB, Kansas
6A. Justin Manton, K, Louisiana-Monroe
6B. Martrell Spaight, ILB, Arkansas
7. Kyle Loomis, P, Portland State

 

Honest Answer . . . I haven't a clue. But here is my personal take on it.

Once Manziel was drafted, I have to believe that Hoyer was asked to "mentor" him. Being a back-up for his entire career to date, Hoyer knew exactly how important is was to have a veteran help teach the younger players how to approach the game. That said, mentoring only works if the younger player feels he needs mentoring and is willing to accept it. I have a strong suspicion that Manziel felt he was above all that evidenced by when he actually was inserted as the starter late in the season, he still didn't even know the playbook.

After the season ended, I have to believe that negotiations with Hoyer began and I have to assume that he was offered right around the same money the Browns eventually gave to McCown - 3 years, $14M. (Hoyer eventually signed with Houston for 2 years, $10M so the difference between the two is really negligible.) Hoyer also knew that the Browns were upside down on Manziel cap wise for 2015 ($2.5M cap, $4.6M Dead Money) so the odds of Manziel being cut were virtually zero.

There is another event that revolves around this event as well. After the season ended, both OC Kyle Shanahan and QB Coach Dowell Loggains left the organization. It can be argued both ways that these two were Pro-Manziel or Anti-Manziel. I tend to lean towards the Pro-Manziel side. Once they actually saw what their wonder boy did in a real game, they bailed out in an attempt to save face and increase their odds in future employment.

In my opinion, the wild card here is GM Ray Farmer. He is the guy that drafted the idiot and Ray's ego (they all have one) told him to stay the course. (Not to mention the $4.6M cap hit if they bailed out.)

Make no mistake . . . Hoyer is no where close to being an "elite" quarterback. He was not the long term answer. But, IMO, he was still head and shoulders better than anyone they have on the roster right now.

 

LSU pro day. Jalen Colins seen sitting in the bleachers next to Mike Tomlin.

HINT, CLUE, *WRITE*

 

This is my personal list of players I would like to see in Black & Gold, or in some cases those who I can accept being selected in this draft. Just a different way to approach this thing because it isn't a big board, or a mock. Just my personal pick-list of guys I think can contribute. They are listed in order of my preference.

I did exclude most of the top picks who obviously will not be available at 22.

TARGET LIST:

Randy Gregory DE --- I know, basically no chance. But there is a chance.
Trae Waynes CB --- See above
Landon Collins SS
Brandon Scherff OG
Arik Armstead DL
Malcom Brown DT
TJ Clemmings OT
Shane Ray DE
Andrus Peat OT
Jalen Collins CB
Alvin Dupree OLB
PJ Williams CB
Kevin Johnson CB
Eli Harold OLB
Tre Jackson OG
Owanagbe Odighizuwa DE
Preston Smith DE
Jake Fisher OT
Maxx Williams TE
David Cobb RB
Nate Orchard DE
Hau'oli Kikaha OLB
Clive Walford TE
TJ Yeldon RB
Alex Carter CB
Byron Jones CB
David Johnson RB
Za'Darius Smith DE
Eric Rowe CB
Chris Conley WR
Jeremy Langford RB
Tony Lippett WR
Kenny Bell WR
Markus Golden DE
Jesse James TE
James Sample SS
Blake Bell TE

 

NY, just curious, but why do you believe the Steelers are in love with Eric Rowe? I see everywhere that the Eagles are coveting him feverishly, but nothing that says the Steelers have any workouts or visits scheduled or even that they're high on him.

 

Randy Gregory getting official visit with Steelers. Failed drug test notwithstanding, he's still a major pass-rushing talent, and I still don't see how he makes it through the teens, but whatever. I'd be all over it if he somehow fell to us.

In another less-headline-worthy event, North Dakota State OLB prospect Kyle Emanuel also visiting with Steelers.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.co...teelers-reportedly-hosting-north-dakota-state

 

Read a report that Tomlin had dinner with Jalen Collins and Danielle Hunter the night before the LSU pro day.

LTS, I really like your list. There's a few minor changes I'd make but otherwise it's right on par with my thoughts.