Steelers Draft and Mel Kiper sucks thread!!

I really think that, as a fanbase, we need to get over our obsession with first round CB prospects! The team obviously doesn't value that position in round 1.

 

Ron Cook of the PPG thinks this will be Polamalu's last season. So he's also saying that Shamarko Thomas will get playing time this season to show the Steelers if he has what it takes. If true, and Thomas's abilities aren't up to par, the Steelers will need a corner and a safety in next years draft. Not to mention a WR if none of the young ones show progress for the opposite opposite side of Brown.

 

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Which is why they torched by Brady, Breeze and Rodgers.

Woodson was my favorite player for a long time.

 

Which teams have success against Brady, Brees, and Rodgers? Not the teams with elite CBs, but the teams with a dominant front 7.

 

Define torched and then tell me who those three don't have success against.

 

And like LTS said, the teams that have had success against the elite QBs are the ones that generate pressure with their front 7 and take away the short passing game.

You don't need elite CBs to take away the short passing game. You need speed in the middle of your defense. With Timmons, Shazier, Mitchell and Polamalu, this team has never had more speed in the middle of it's defense.

Now, if the young DL and OLBs on this team can generate the pressure that they need to generate, this team should have more success against those elite QBs than they have recently.

 

Just quoting mano but this is a response to the discussion overall.

I dont think this is a matter of PIT not neccessarily grading cb's highly, they are clearly important they simply grade others higher. Take Dennard, he slid pretty far ( 24 if i recall correctly), thats quite the fall for a guy i had as my top CB in the draft next to gilbert, so it means we as draft nuts and fans, missed something or simply were not privy to something that as fans we simply cant have access too. I really thinkthe steelers looked at shazier and just thought ' this kid is special and we can use this' and they went for it, time will tell how good or bad this pick was but at face value i think given everything we know about him and the others on offer it was a solid not great pick- NOT SAYING HE WONT WORK OUT, we simply dont know yet.

2k

 

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So you guys are saying the Steelers havent had a dominate front 7 in years ?
They certainly havent had above average CB's since ? Well maybe Deshea Townsend might have been a little bit
above average.

I'm not saying you dont need to win the trenches but one hand washes the other. If the receivers are coverd
it gives the front7 time to get to the QB. Right ??

 

Not necessarily, no corner can cover for 8+ seconds. Pressure makes average CBs look above average. A shut down corner does give the front 7 an extra second or two to get to the QB, thats true, but pressure helps the back end more i think...Townsend was good, but Ike in his prime is a lot better imo.

And no, in the past 3 or 4 season the Steelers have not had a good enough pass rush. Pressure causes turnovers and sacks, both of which have been way down. You can try blaming Ike's hands but the truth is he defends more passes than he lets go by, at least before this past season. Taylor is on the decline, and I'm sure I'm not alone in being slightly disappointed that the CB position didn't get addressed until round 5 but if Shazier, Worilds, Jones can get the pressure that they potentially can then Ike is good enough for one more year. If not, gonna be a long year for him again.

 

Any idea where the Steelers ranked last year interms ofbig pass plays.

Ike is good at covering but without a threat of interceptions I think QB's would
be more afraid DT. IMO

 

If you acknowledge it takes both, then you should recognize they are addressing the issue in the best manner they see. Did the Giants have a great set of DBs in their two wins over Brady?

 

From the look of it the Steelers were in the top half of the league in just about every category against the pass. They played nickel and dime defense on more than half their snaps because the front 7 were so ineffective. They should be no worse this season, and with the draftees may be set for great improvement in the coming 2-3 years.

 

I hope the influx of youth and speed in the front 7 equates to pressure and covering the middle, take away the first read and it buys a second for the OLB or DE to get to the QB.

I don't expect 5 all pros on the Offensive LIne, but consistency and run blocking will go a long way to winning Time of Possession.

 

I think the last time the Steelers had a truly dominant front 7 on defense was in 2008, but you could make arguments for 2010.

That said, scheme has to play into it as well. Lebeau coached defenses typically have struggled against the elite QBs because his basic concept was to bring pressure and play zone behind it. The average QBs would struggle to make the proper reads and move the ball methodically down the field. Elite QBs would not have those same struggles and would always find the open receiver.

Even when the Steelers had a dominant front 7, they still struggled against elite QBs for this reason.

However, we have seen a shift in defensive philosophy in recent years with the CBs playing more press and press/bail coverage against the top QBs. They had great success against Brady a couple of years ago when they first started doing this, but that was when they still had Woodley and Harrison bringing pressure (actually, I believe it was that game that Woodley first started having his infamous hamstring issues).

Since then, the defense has been willing to continue the press coverage against top QBs, but the pass rush hasn't been as consistent. You need both for success.

Now, before you say that better CBs would be better at press coverage...that's not the point. You don't need elite CBs to play press coverage against a quick passing game. You need physical CBs who can reroute receivers and kill the timing of the play. That is what the Steelers have focused on at the position for years. Ike Taylor, Cortez Allen and even William Gay are all physical players. Not one of them is a first, second or even third round pick.

 

This is the heart of the entire discussion. Dick LeBeau's defense is predicated on not giving up the big play. That, along with turnovers is what they strive for. Last year they were terrible in that regard and it's why they went out and got a speed guy to play free safety. Clark's range was non-existent last year and he and Polamalu both hung Ike out to dry a couple of times.

Year 20+ 40+

'04 33 8
'05 38 8
'06 44 8
'07 32 4
'08 23 (#1) 2 (#1)
'09 46 9
'10 35 (#1) 7
'11 34 (#1) 2 (#1)
'12 31 (#1) 2 (#1)
'13 46 12

 

p.s. You can close the draft thread but you can't keep me from commenting on it. Any scoring system that has Demo on the bottom, when he was clearly the closest to predicting the actual placement of the listed players is stupid. In the end it's just a meaningless contest but why not judge it in a way that actually rewards the people who were closest to being correct?

 

Because you cannot score negative numbers in Football or any contest, even the Olympics. Every time Ben gets sacked, do they take a point off the score board? I never implied or inferred a system that had negative scoring. Maximum score per prospect was 10, minimum was zero. Argue wall you want, but it was my contest. Next year I will state the obvious so that everyone isn't grasping for straws.

 

Funny thing is beach is arguing not to be the winner of the contest.

 

Take the negatives out and Demo still wins if you include the undrafted guys. Demo nailed Annen as a UDFA, other guys had him in the 4th round and he isn't rewarded when he actually does go undrafted? Makes no sense.

 

Right is right.