Steelers Draft and Mel Kiper sucks thread!!

Okay?bickering aside, it is a FACT that it takes players a year or two to grasp the defense. It is a HARD defense to understand because LeBeau's scheme involves a lot of misdirection. On top of that, JJ had weight to gain, all of us knew that, the Steelers knew that, and he is coming back bigger now. Shazier will have some weight to gain as well and will be baptized in the AFC North.

I expect big things from JJ this year. NO rookie (aside from Roethlisberger) has come in and set the world on fire in this organization and I don't see that changing.

 

He's not going to play unless he deserves to play. There are ALOT of guys in front of him for that job beside Timmons right now. Williams played well. They signed Arthur Moats. They have Sean Spence supposedly ready to come back. All 3 of those guys are going to be more NFL ready on day 1 of training camp than Shazier will be.

If Shazier gets on the field on defense, he will have earned it.

 

Ok so i have been thinking about this a lot, and i just read through pages of what can only be discribed as surreal dialogue. anyway long post inc.

So i had a lot of thoughts running around in my head trying to figure out what the next trend in the nfl will be or why people picked players. and i think its fair for me to start from this simple premise- this league, this nfl, is a simple point-counter point league. By that i mean, prototype or scheme A arises, scheme B or protoype B is developed to counter, and thus we go through the decades.

Anyone who knows me, knows I think Ray lewis was the best player of our generation ( im in my mid 20's- perhaps that makes me too young for most of you to listen to but ill go on anyway), and up there for best D players of all time next to greene, taylor, jones and brucy!.

Ive also made the point im about to make in numerous discussions with many of you, ray lewis entered the league and then changed it, he forced OC's to change how they matched up against line backers because ray lewis was simply too fast to be beat by that era's tight ends, and could also take the slot on occasion and was strong enough to beat full backs and shed at the line, he was the total package and countered almost entirely the popular packages and schemes of the day.

FAst forward ( stay with me kids and oldies, there is a point in here) to a few years ago and the ravens and pats both drafted two tight ends, and the ravens almost got gronk instead of dickson but the message was clear, they were predicting or creating a new trend, sometthing to counter every linebacker that had come in to the league up until then and up until this year ( i think you see where im going with this), this includes luke from last year and then the current elite in bowman and willis for example. These guys were good enough to match up against what was coming out, just like ray who was past his prime, it was almost as if the prototype was perfected. But the point being the counter point had been made to ray lewis and his species if you will. So what do we see now? passing league, less emphasis on the run and less emphasis on the full back in particular with freakish ATHLETES at tight end, who rarely block these days.

So what does a team do? i think we saw it this year. Shazier, and Mosely, represent what i predict will be a new position of interst on the D side of the ball ( what i mean by this is that there will be a run on these types of players, there important will sky rocket once more) , right now its too easy for teams to go over the middle, well...what happens when these kids are faster, in ryans case, freakishly fast, they are built to play in space, both mosely and ryan excel in space, pursuit and form tackling with mosely being particular good at recognition and reaction, and ryan excelling as a pure phsyical athlete...these guys are also smaller than todays linebackers, or the ray lewis breed- and it works, they dont need to be as big, look at the running backs, they are not down hill behind the pads kind of guys that we loved to see back in the day and that BB loves to watch, but they are elusive, small, good out of the backfield for the most part ( ap is freaking ap), and these two linebackers can easily bulldoze them with pure speed and momentum alone.

they can cover these rb's in to the flat and wheel routes, and slide in to cover 2 or even man in the slot and be just fine. i really think pit and bal are about to set another trend. there is a reason these two teams are good on defense and have had success for decades, they know what they are doing. for the ravens, the one thing i loved about art brown was that he had true sideline to sideline speed and was good in space, couple that with mosely and i think the ravens could be set for the next 5-8 years, timmons is also fast, i dont think his ceiling is close to what shazier or mosely show but the method or goal to me is apparent, force teams to account for what they now face in the middle, take the middle of the field and make those recieivers and tight ends scared again.

all in all, id be prtty optimisitc with the future, i think both defenses just got much much better and i also think both organisations are on to something. the run is important to stop for sure, but take away a lot of these teams safety blanket...and you are at a severe advantage.

random ramblings.

2k

 

Nice write up 2K.. G-sus - do you ever sleep man?

Enjoy,

Asleep at the wheel

 

i got a solid 6 hours i think, then worked out and now im just catching up on posts, analysis and rumours- im astounded by how much talent there is still left tonight. the D line and WR in particular looks especially inviting.

2k

 

Re WR... I think you can go in to the 6th round in this draft and get a quality kid... J.Janis for one... J.Brown for another.. No need to reach on one.. If one falls to your pick - fine.

DL - I'd like the ND kid to fall to us...

enjoy,

one of the idiots

 

We like the same kid, i jsut cant fathom a world in which he lasts that long tonight, him and the other kid out of ND is who i really want. As for WR's im with you except there are the kid out of vanderbilt and penn that i really like, so if they slide ill be happy and then the safety out of fsu, any of those and ill be over the moon.

2k

 

i guess I'm a bit of a fuddy duddy who doesnt like change when it's successful.
The Steelers defense has been a stop the run and limit the big pass plays which they failed on
last year. Adding thin speedy LB's wont help that but I guess it will the underneath coverage.
We can only hope that adding faster LB's it will free up the SS to help in coverage which takes away
from Troy's strongest attibute but might help the team overall.

 

It's a shame the WR out of Vanderbilt was invited to the green room when he's been projected as a 3rd rounder for awhile. Granted a team could have felt he was worth a first, it still feels like setting him up for failure while he watches all the other players around him get drafted

More on topic, I'd take the Ole Miss WR for Baltimore in the 2nd round if possible or the kid mentioned above in the 3rd or even 2nd to be sure.

 

2k, I have to completely agree with your analysis of the draft. Both teams got better (much to our mutual chagrin) but Colbert and Ozzie are the best in the business when it comes to CONSISTENTLY sniffing out talent. On top of that, both guys are the prototypes for "the new phase" of football. These are guys that can be used EXTENSIVELY in sub package situations, against tight ends, against slot guys, and can also take on RB's head on. Sure, they aren't as big as the players of old, but let me remind everyone that James Farrior, while listed at 243 OFFICIALLY, actually played at 218 for much of his career.

Another thing, directly from the mouth of Kevin Colbert when responding to a question about corner being a position of position of need: "We're well aware of who we have on our team, but when we can add a player of this quality, it'll override the need at any time." Shazier sold them SEVERAL times after various meetings, so we have to take that into account. Colbert and Tomlin love this kid, as they both said he has no holes in his game. Sure, he can gain some weight, but most LB's transitioning from college to the NFL can. I see good things for him.

 

Spoiler

1.Hageman

Spoiler

2. Tuitt

Spoiler

3. Matthews

Spoiler

4. Nicklas

 

I would be wary of packing too much weight on Shazier if I'm the Steelers' strength and conditioning coaches. They don't want to rob him of his amazing natural skillset in the process.

 

Not having Troy play linebacker will help the team overall

I don't think Dick LeBeau is transitioning away from a "stop-the-run" defense. Offenses are moving toward a spread-style offense with multiple tight end sets. I think I read somewhere that the Steelers spent over 60% of snaps in sub-package sets last season, so they NEED quick LB's who can pursue the RB as well as cover tight ends. Timmons' greatest attribute is his closing speed and I see Shazier being very similar.

 

I see a lot of Stats flying around re Shazier.. Here's one that most impresses me:

42 Vert - THAT"S 40 TIMES higher than mine!!! 40 TIMES!!

enjoy,

Burghballs can't jump

 

Kid also ran a 4.4 40...

 

If Tuitt is off the table at #46.. I like the OLB from Georgia Tech...

Could be WR...

on of those 3 spots.. DL, WR.. OLB - I thing CB is out of play until the 3rd

enjoy,

one of the idiots

 

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW7e3DYxF3s[/video]

enjoy,

one of the idiots

 

That was #1 at the combine - among all players / every position. His 10' 10" long jump was best among linebackers. 10 yard split was same as Khalil Mack's. Kid explodes!

 

Got to double dip tonight - Be watching the Pens vs Rangers mostly - but will check in from time to time see how its going - Wife is home -doubt she'll let me use her PC nights in a row...

enjoy,

one of the idiots

 

No, there is no way Bell would have been there in the 3rd round.

Bernard 37
Bell 48
Ball 58
Lacy 61
Michael 62

The run on RBs was over by the end of round 2. Round 3 was Wheaton, the replacement for Emmanuel Sanders. You are thinking of round 4 when they took Landry Jones.