Steelers Draft and Mel Kiper sucks thread!!

I expect to 49ers to trade up in the 2nd. If they trade the 61st and 94th. The trade chart says that moves them to 48th or 49th. I think they could get as high as 42nd, with a deep draft. If they go 56th and 94th that gets them to 43rd or 44th and maybe up to 38th. The should be looking WR and 3-4 DE.

 

So i woke up, and here we go again for....about 12 hours lol

Ok random thoughts now that ive had time to process everything, i was never comfortable with giving grades so i probably wont. Just thoughts


1(1) Texans Clowney, Jadeveon DE 6'6" 266 South Carolina 7.5

NO comment, makes sense, should be good, could be great.


2(2) Rams (From Redskins) Robinson, Greg OT 6'5" 332 Auburn 7.4

Great pick given they couldnt trade, with long back this could really help bradford

3(3) Jaguars Bortles, Blake QB 6'5" 232 Central Florida 6.2

This could go either way as we discussed, (see nybs and beach;s comments around the pick time, probs page 210 or so...damn we wrote a lot) im not the biggest fan of this qb class but they were right when they said he has all the tools, i just think its very risky. im almost sure they give him a weapon in the second round to throw to.

4(4) Bills (From Browns) Watkins, Sammy WR 6'1" 211 Clemson 7.3
Love the players, but i dontlike the trade, 2 firsts and a 4th is pricey for 5 spots, and while im sure he is gone, i dont really think he changes that team- he doesnt make them win now, they arent close to me, but who knows, i actually would have liked it if they stayed pat, and went for like Barr or something. for cleveland this was a godly trade.

5(5) Raiders Mack, Khalil OLB 6'3" 251 Buffalo 7.2

love the player and the pick.

6(6) Falcons Matthews, Jake OT 6'5" 308 Texas A&M 7.2

My favourite player in this draft as far as being able to plug and play, solid all round, REALLy like him.

7(7) Buccaneers Evans, Mike WR 6'5" 231 Texas A&M 6.4

For me the best WR in the class, you cant teach that frame, and that body control with those hands is going to be scary!

8(8) Browns (From Vikings) Gilbert, Justin CB 6'0" 202 Oklahoma St. 6.3

Ok they gave a 5th to get their guy, i have always said picks after round 4 are less valuable and should be treated like currency if they can be used as such, in hindisght it looks like they didnt have to move up, but they got their guy. i would have preferred watkins and 4 BUT this guy is one of two CB's i liked this year and with haden over on the other side- this d just got better.

9(9) Vikings (From Bills through Browns) Barr, Anthony OLB 6'5" 255 UCLA 6.5

Great pick, really like this kid, tremendous upside- perhaps more than any other player thus far.

10(10) Lions Ebron, Eric TE 6'4" 250 North Carolina 6.2

I was on the fence with this kid internally, i think he ccan be beast, at 17 he would represent tremendous value, but there are flags there- he does however work for the lions so good luck to them.

11(11) Titans Lewan, Taylor OT 6'7" 309 Michigan 6.3

Again- good sound value here BUT fuck this kid. seriously, 2 harrasment charges?

12(12) Giants Beckham, Odell WR 5'11" 198 LSU 6.1

Ok, people like this guy and compare him to wallace, if he is wallace then sure he will work, but im not his biggest fan, i understand the pick but i dont think he is going to be elite, and there is a lot of talent coming up in the second that i like just as much if not more than him- but i wont name drop- lets say thus far all the wr's are still on the board.

13(13) Rams Donald, Aaron DT 6'1" 285 Pittsburgh 6.3

late riser, and i have a thing with late risers, but this kid could be good, i was surprised they went this way but he does represent value ( bpa to an extent).

14(14) Bears Fuller, Kyle CB 6'0" 190 Virginia Tech 5.9

Dont like fuller, so i dont like this pick, he is solid not good to me, i could be wrong of course, but he screams kyle wilson, i was happy he went so the ravens got their guy.

15(15) Steelers Shazier, Ryan OLB 6'1" 237 Ohio St. 6.3

I made my comments when he was picked, ill be honest without trying to flame or anything, i didnt think he was better than mosely, but with that being said here is what shazier is, and ill explain my concerns also- form tackler, true sideline to sideline speed, will be able to cover the flat zone and i even thnk pick up the slot and te on occasion, great scheme diversity, insanely fast- THE ONE knock i have and the one reason i had him lower than mosely for me is that he finds it tough to shed, which is so important to me, and i had him lower than mosely because mosely shows a solid to good ability to shed tackles- with all that being said, these two are not as far apart as some thing regardless of who you put at one, it was these two- then the mariana trench drop in class after- pit got they guy.

16(16) Cowboys Martin, Zack OT 6'4" 308 Notre Dame 6.2

stellar pick for value, i dont personally like him as much as the other 3 technically, or two i should say but good pick.

17(17) Ravens Mosley, C.J. ILB 6'2" 234 Alabama 6.4

Provided the medical checks out, which has been an issue with past picks by the ravens ( medical concerns) that have thus far worked out just fine, so if he is fine, then im beyond happy with this pick, pure BPA as decosta backed up- cue the shazier mosely debates.

18(18) Jets Pryor, Calvin FS 5'11" 207 Louisville 6.3

this kid could be an animal, i did myself prfer HCD but i think thats because i was more partial to a FS.

19(19) Dolphins James, Ja'Wuan OT 6'6" 311 Tennessee 5.7

no comment, what the hell was this??

20(20) Saints (From Cardinals) Cooks, Brandin WR 5'10" 189 Oregon St. 5.9

Could be dangerous with brees, again, iw as happy he went because id idnt want him in baltimore later.

21(21) Packers Clinton-Dix, Ha Ha FS 6'1" 208 Alabama 5.9

Sound pick here for me.

22(22) Browns (From Eagles) Manziel, Johnny QB 6'0" 207 Texas A&M 6.1

DIDNT LIKE THIS PICK. ive made my point so many times already but i dnt thnk he survives in the AFC north, here is the good thing though, good O line, infact amazing O line, and he has weapons down the field, thats what made him a success in am and he kind of has the NFL version of that, his accuracu was never bad but he just has happy feet.

23(23) Chiefs Ford, Dee DE 6'2" 252 Auburn 5.7

REACH

24(24) Bengals Dennard, Darqueze CB 5'11" 199 Michigan St. 6.1

Tremendous value, i really liked him and he slid, great value for the bengals.

25(25) Chargers Verrett, Jason CB 5'9" 189 TCU 5.9

See previous cb comments that are not dennard or gilbert, i just dont like this class.

26(26) Eagles (From Colts through Browns) Smith, Marcus DE 6'3" 251 Louisville 5.6

idiotic pick

27(27) Cardinals (From Saints) Bucannon, Deone SS 6'1" 211 Washington St. 5.7

higher than i thought he would go for sure, i had him pegged early to mid second for me, but this kid can play,could be an insane secondary that they are building over there with that honey kid and then peterson.

28(28) Panthers Benjamin, Kelvin WR 6'5" 240 Florida St. 6.1

DONT CARE, DIDNT LIKE HIM, GLAD HE WENT. too much of a risk in the first, maybe later he is worth a shot.

29(29) Patriots Easley, Dominique DT 6'2" 288 Florida 5.3

/facepalm

30(30) 49ers Ward, Jimmie SS 5'11" 193 Northern Illinois 5.4

more suprising than the cards pick, but a good player, just a slight reach to me. Im hoping the kid out of FSU slides.

31(31) Broncos Roby, Bradley CB 5'11" 194 Ohio St. 6.1

See previous cb comments not named dennard or gilbert.

32(32) Vikings (From Seahawks) Bridgewater, Teddy QB 6'2" 214 Louisville 6.1

Great pick, amazing value and i think he is going to be very good, AP gets some help.

2k

 

Yeah, just faster. *THUMBSUP*

 

I'm feeling DL and WR very strongly tonight. The Steelers will go either way.

There are a few DEs and WRs I'd love to see on this team, including one of my favorite players in the draft.

 

Ditto for me, in fact, both the D line and WR contain my top 5 picks for the second round alone, and you can add one Safety to that list. tonne of talent sliding.

2k

 

Nice write-up 2k. My jaw about hit the floor when the Shazier pick was announced, and my buddies thought it was absolutely hilarious. The more I think about it, the more I like it and here's why:

• Colbert has never had a 1st rounder bust out[/*]

• The last Buckeye that they picked in the first won a Super Bowl[/*]

• The LBing corp is extremely fast[/*]

• 9 months ago, the kid was a top-10 pick; so the talent is obviously there[/*]

• 4.38 40 time. You can coach up a kid, but you can't coach speed[/*]

 

2k,

Was just listening to Ross Tucker on Sirius and he made a great point re: Buffalo.

They are getting a new owner and that almost always means new GM, new coach. The only way to avoid it? To have a really good year which for the Bills means be in a playoff race and have things pointed in the right direction. I'm really high on Sammy but anyone I think would agree he is an immediate impact player at some level and he will really help their young QV. If they are wrong, they weren't going to be around next year. If he is as good as they think they can say, "Hey Mr Trump we saw a phenomenal playmaker within reach and we went for it!" They basically gave up someone else's pick unless things go REALLY well.

 

I think the shock following the Shazier pick was based on everyone's notion that Mosley was the #1 ILB on the board. Pretty much every internet site had it that way so it wasn't hard for all of us to agree. But we just don't know how teams have it. For all we know he was #1 on the Ravens board too and they settled for their #2 guy! In the future we need to really get away from the internet rankings but that's easier said than done.

 

Great analysis 2k. I underlined the part I am addressing, because Kevin Colbert said this same thing in his presser. Didn't dwell on it, just mentioned Shaz needs to get stronger because sometimes he gets "caught up with the tackle" I think was how he phrased it. Colbert's other catch word was "unique" in terms of his athleticism. Clearly they thought he was BPA, even without the polish.

 

Ok multi quote doesnt work for me or maybe ive been around BB too long.

Ill take each post in turn.

Steelcurtain-

The potential of winning bowls and such is valid but i wouldnt personally hang my hat on what has happened with previous players, i dont expect cj or shazier OR almost anyone to be a probowlers, you draft starters, i think we both drafted starters that will help. i thought a lot about shazier, dropping back, he is going to be good, raw hips and feet but name me a LB that discription doesnt apply to? with shazier the message is clear to me- they know you have issues in the db, but im a HUGE advocate of the ILB ( i presume he plays the mike eventually due to leadership etc, i havent seen your depth in a while, does he start at the will though? tremendous speed etc) being the most important position on defense at times, See ray lewis, it matters so much when you have a kid who just fly;s to the ball and makes plays and can LEAD! both mosely and shazier fit that leadership role for me.

What i really like is this: how do you run over the middle against timmons and shazier, provided shaziier develops well which is not a strectch given that its pit after all. he just needs to learn to shed, if he does that then you sure up what i think could be a little bit of a concern when playing the run but against the pass? this kid could be something special.

2k

 

Totally agree there, Beach. I think the real issue in this case is not that Shaz (which everyone will agree is what we should call him from now on) was ranked behind Mosley, but that he was ranked behind Mack and Barr. As an OLB, Shaz wasn't even on the radar for #15. I was stupid and never considered that he might move inside, even though his body size is just about right for ILB in Pittsburgh. Probably not enough buzz for me to take a closer look - which goes to your point.

 

Here's just some of the knocks on Shazier.

Shazier has trouble in space and isn't the best tackler in the draft. He's a pass-rusher first and may not be able to engage blockers in run defense at the NFL level?especially on the perimeter.

Also, that awesome speed of his was run on a notoriously fast Ohio State track. Don't be surprised if he gets to Pittsburgh and immediately adds a tenth of a second to that 40 time.

Also, now that the Steelers have another 1st round draft pick tied up on ILB's, how of the salary cap is going to have to be spent there ?

 

I just added your second post to your first post because scren multiquote.

Re bills: interesting point but im a huge advocate of treating top tier picks like having the keys to fort knox, if someone wants what you have they be better pay owe you for YEARS, and the browns got that. I dont doubt that watkins could be real good, but like you said, you are giving up your guy next year, and sure if watkins helps then it makes it better, but a first next year just seems very steep from me and i like manuel, i think he is solid and that offense is pretty solid now, but i think they needed help on D, i think they could have stayed where they were and grabbed a good defensive player like Barr. i shouldnt say i outright hate the pick, i just think the browns got the better end of the deal.

as for the second point;

i wholeheartedly agree, if you watch football enough and have commited yourself to the game as many of us have, then scouts dont always see something different than us, what they do have is a lot more time, input and access. Decosta is on record saying mosely was BPA at 10 for them, and i agree and called it onthe ravens draft thread that i thoguht that would be the case on pure talent evaluation alone, but people will find things that influence them greatly, ive heard that some teams wouldnt touch mosely till the second due to medical concerns, but this isnt bowers from a few years ago, football players get hit and they get back up and he hasnt slowed down - i trust the ravens medical staff- they are pretty good so i think the notion that mosely coul dhave dropped to the second or should have, is utterly insane. i wholeheartededly belive that both PIT and BAL, got the guy they wanted, i dont think shazier was higher than mosely for the ravens but its clear that was the case for PIT- only time will tell but i dont see either busting. Linebackers in the first not named rolando dont bust often, and even then mcclain wasnt bad he was simply not ready but both these kids- especially mosely for whom i know more about, are leaders and i think they can be counted on to work hard.

2k

 

It's probably wrong blaming Tomlin for these bad 1st round draft decisions, he doesnt
know any better. Colbert on the other hand does and is being exposed as a fraud.

 

Patently false to me, no offense intended, both mosely and shazier excel in space and in form tackling, again i give the slight edge to mosely for better tackling but to sideline to sideline speed and general pursuit to shazier.

2k

 

I have had some sleep now and I feel pretty good. Shazier will play inside, I was targeting the WRONG guy but for the RIGHT reasons. I said I liked Willims but he was a 2 down LB, they needed to upgrade ILB, I just had Mosley ahead of Shazier. I obviously had Dennard, Pryor, and Dix slightly ahead of him, but it's not like a phuqued up royally, Shazier was 13 on the board. At pick 15 he wa right near the top of my list.

Very early on, and my memory usually serves me correct, Demolisher43 Identifed Shazier for the Steelers, Good job Demo. When you watch the combine, and they broke down the CB, you could see that Dennard is not that fluid, in fact, Clinton-Dix looks slightly better in the drills.

I will stand by a few things on my board, 44. Dee Ford, he has a skill that every team needs, but not enough skills to play OLB. He is a more gifted and talented version of MIchael Sam.

The guy the 49ers may be targeting is Louis Nix III, or like beach said one of the top 2 5 techniques I have rated pretty high.

OH and if there is a player we don't want and as a group we agree on it, kindly mention his name. The Kyle FUller Kyle FUller Kyle Fuller worked like a charm.

The shock of the first round has got to be Marcus Smith, followed by Dominique Easley.

 

I got most of that from Bleacher review.
They give the pick a C+

"Shazier will play inside, I was targeting the WRONG guy but for the RIGHT reasons. I said I liked Willims but he was a 2 down LB, they needed to upgrade ILB,"

He was a 2 down LB because the Steelers were playing 5 DB's most of the time.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20...zier-could-be-instantimpact-rookie-on-defense

 

If that's a knock on him then we're in great shape. 4.5 is still a blazing fast time for a LB, faster than Timmons and the same speed as Antonio Brown.

His biggest knock is limited size and getting caught up in blocks at times. Happens to everyone.

 

As I just said beach, I could not agree more. they need Explosion, WOW players, hey Vince Williams is a plodder, smart kid, hard worker, he's a good guy to have on the 53. What he lacks is closing speed and burst. See Aaron Pryor and Adrian Peterson Gallolping towards the end zone. It's not all on Williams, Jones is raw, and needs strength, but I don't think it's fair to judge either guy after one season. Losing Larry Foote was a lot more detrimental than we imagined. So Tomlin and Colbert fixed it, they got the most explosive ILB on their board. Again I got the position right, just not player, and I am not alone.

Round 2, you know what I cannot really knock my board, it's close to being good. And I did use draft sites as a guide, but I totally disagreed with most on Deone Buchanon, Draftscout had him at 83, I laughed, I had Jimmie Ward at 30, he went 31st. I have Derek Carr as the best QB available, no way in heck does he make it to pick 37.

Washington needs OL help in a big way, some good talent sitting there, I expect them to select from the top rated linemen left on the board. If Oakland looks for a QB, I don't know about Garappolo, he isn't built to take a pounding, we'll see.