Steelers Draft and Mel Kiper sucks thread!!

Sorry but I rate the draft on productive players who stick around for their second. Third, and beyond those contracts evuating your 2009 draft is painful when nobody remains on the team after 4 seasons except your first rounder who is entering the final year of his contract

 

My only real argument against this, Nybites, is that you would punish them for having too many good players. If they have so many premier players that they can't keep them all it really does not invalidate the draft. Do you consider Rod Woodson a bad pick?

 

Keenan Lewis iisn't with us anymore because a 4th round pick from '11 is better and cheaper. That's not a bad thing.

 

Woodson signed 3 contracts don't see how he applies ?

 

However i still say Lewis > Gay but it came down to $$ I realization Cortez is better however Curtis Brown is a borderline bust, maybe like Lewis in his 3rd year the light will come on.

 

My mistake Bites, I didn't read your post close enough. I totally overlooked the part about a guy signing two or more contracts. Guys like Wallace, Urbik, and Lewis are still good picks to me even though they didn't stick with the team. The salary cap has really affected the way teams do business (not keeping Urbik was just a mistake, in hindsight, no money involved) and sometimes it really kills you.

 

I see where bites is coming from - maybe it speaks to the effectiveness of our scouting department when it comes to finding great talent in the 3rd round, but not when it comes to benefiting the Steelers. We haven't been able to maintain 3rd rounders very well at all. The 2009 draft would look radically different if we did - 7 out of 10 of those players currently contribute to some NFL team, 8 out of 11 if we include Ramon Foster. It was by no means a bad draft from a pure talent-acquisition standpoint, but it's hard to completely praise it when that draft's members are now strewn every which way across the NFL.

 

I read that, their logic says Ben might not even make it to 2016 due to age yet they had no problem giving top 5 ratings to a 39 year old Brady and 40 year old Peyton.

 

I have to agree with this as well. If Mike Wallace played so well that he signed I think the 3rd highest deal for a receiver in the NFL, wouldn't that be a great pick? I'd prefer to get that out of a 3rd round pick and end up with another 3rd than getting an under performing guy that signs because he wouldn't be able to get any more money elsewhere. The scouting department were right about those 3rd round picks, the fault falls at the coaches for cutting Urbik too soon and for not having the cap room to sign Wallace and Lewis, although I'd argue they would never sign Wallace to what he got and Lewis was seen as expendable because of another draft pick.

 

Because I was bored I took a look at all the teams drafts for the third round from 2007-2011. There were 174 3rd round draft picks during that time. Of those picks only 95 remain with the team that drafted them (if a player left and came back tot he team he was drafted by I left him as being on the team that drafted him. Now this number is probably actually lower than 95 as the method I used was not the greatest (you can check below for a full explanation of my method). There was not a single team that had not lost at least one 3rd round draft pick. The Vikings had 2 3rd round draft picks during that time and have lost them both the only team to do so, but some of the teams only have their 2011 picks left. The retention rate for 3rd round picks is roughly 54% (remember though my numbers are more than likely off a bit.) The Steelers come in a little under this with 43% on roster. Now this does not take into account what a guy contributes as the only way to look at that for a guy like me is stats and we all know there is more to the game than stats. If I was Ron Jaworski or Merrill Hodge with endless amounts of tape and time I could do a which guys contribute but I am not them so I cant.




My method flawed as it may be was to use Pro Football References Draft Finder and go team by team to look at who they drafted from 2007-2011. Then from the draft results screen I linked to each player to see if they were still playing for the team that drafted them. the flawed part of the plan comes from it showing their last stats as 2012 of course so it would not show them on a new team for the upcoming season. Now I didn't think about this til half way through when I saw a player who I knew had moved to a new team. I decided to finish it out as it at least gives a rough estimate of players still with teams. I corrected some on my own but many I didn't know I am sure slipped through the cracks. I know some are missed because when I finished there were two teams that were being showed as having lost no players. I found that odd and when looking closer found a player who had signed elsewhere on one and player who had been released for failed physical on another. I do apologize for not having used a better system but at least if gives a rough look at the third round draft during that time period.

Just an FYI with the rough numbers the best teams for keeping 3rd rounders. Ari, Tampa Bay and Green Bay (all at 80%) The worst Vikings of course and the Eagles (around 20%)

 

My main concern is that the third round is pivitol in a draft, drafting talent is great, keeping talent is the goal. Okay they'll got a comp pick for Wallace. But can anyone with a clean consciense say that Shamarko Thomas is a better player than Wallace. Keep in mind he has not played one down in the NFL. All reports and the feel good stories in the world don't equal production.

 

Nybites, I agree that the third round is important in the talent it offers, and if the team were just whiffing that is one thing. But Wallace, Lewis, and Urbik are not failures in drafting. Urbik was dropped in favor of veterans, which in hindsight was not a good move. But in the case of Wallace and Lewis it seems to be "I wish they weren't such good players, then we could afford to keep them." The Steelers drafted talented players and turned them into quality starters, and I just don't see that as a failure of any kind.

Sean Spence
Curtis Brown
Emmanuel Sanders
Mike Wallace
Keenan Lewis
Buster
Matt Spaeth

Not a bad list, with Buster being the obvious failure. 4 of the 7 are NFL starters, one has not played due to injury, one hasn't shown the ability to start yet, and the other one I won't mention again.

 

Urbik was dropped because they liked the other OG they picked up in 2009 - Ramon Foster. And at this point there is nothing to indicate they made a poor decision. Foster has done a nice job and has been the one guy on our line to stay healthy. Urbik has missed several games in Buffalo over the last three years. We have enough of those guys.

 

Maybe, but the final roster showed the following OL: Essex, Foster, Kemoeatu, Legursky, Tony Hills, Flozell Adams, Chris Scott, and Jonathan Scott. Ramon Foster was not the only alternative to Urbik.

As I said before, in hindsight the Urbik move was a mistake - or may have been a mistake. At the time it was a matter of him being on the low end of the scale and they had to let someone go. It still doesn't make picking him a mistake, it's just one of those things that happen in the NFL.

 

Ah hindsight the bane of all mankind (well definitely in drafts and player moves). Wonder how many Steelers staff members still stay up late at night with the We should have Drafted Marino instead of Gabe Rivera.

Who do you take out to make room for Urbik? Just curious cause I really dont have the answer.
Legursky's versatility would keep him on im guessing.
At the time Kemoeatu and Essex were entrenched as starters though an argument could be made for dumping Kemo. So as I said just curious who we dump to keep Urbik.

 

Playing the hindsight game, I think either Chris Scott or Tony Hills. I think Hills saw more playing time than Scott so Scott would be my choice.

Also, remember this is only about making a different choice for who to try to sneak on to the practice squad. They didn't drop Urbik because they didn't like him, but because at the time they wanted 4 tackles and 3 guards. Urbik just didn't clear waivers, and those are the breaks.

 

They also wasted a third round pick on Urbik, Colbert later admitted they pulled the trigger early. Keith Williams was a 6th rounder that did not work out, but I can live with a 6th rounder. Don't forget they took Urbik ahead of Wallace and Lewis. Pittsburgh almost NEVER tries and puts a 3rd rounder on the P squad. Even Bruce "Buster" Davis they found a room on the 53. He was soon made inactive after he was well inactive or ineffective. One other thing to consider here, that the Standard for a Steeler player is higher than a Buffalo Bills player. Top to bottom the Steelers have and had more talent, so a guy like Urbik finds a hat in ORchard Park much easier.

The weird thing about that round 3 in 2009, they traded back with Denver parlaying with Chicago, to get more picks. The two OL guys they targetted Eric Wood and Max Unger were gone. It all worked out becaused they took Pouncey in 2010. Even Colbert knew that Hartwig sucked moose as bad as Mahan, both were Terrible Centers.

 

I dont consider Urbik a "wasted" pick - my opinion watching him at the Senior Bowl - the kid could play - He got flushed cause the steelers decided to keep the 2 TP twins... Jonathan and Chris... Scott. He had some knee issues coming out of college, needed to stenghten.

I do agree with the point about some of our 2nd tier players starting on some teams once they leave the steelers - depth... and a good point

I am still puzzled about Smokin' Joey Burnett... I really like this kids potential - put himself in position to make plays... was it that one drop vs Oakland the reason he got black balled? Must be something else... but I sure dont know what that is..... someone enlighten me... Did he just suck and I dont see it? Dont get me wrong - I'm at a good place with the current CB's... just curious about him since he is a player I was happy they drafted.

enjoy,

bb

 

Chris Scott didn't make the Final 53. He was on the PUP list.

Starters: Starks, Kemoeatu, Pouncey, Essex, Adams
Reserves: Legursky, J. Scott, T. Hills, R. Foster

Legursky and Hartwig were battling for the backup Center position but financially the writing was on the wall. Scott and Hills were both OT reserves. The final spot was between Foster and Urbik and Urbik lost.

It didn't help his cause that the Steelers had a first year O-line coach. He had no ties to Urbik through the draft process from the year before therefore no loyalty existed.

 

WITF is with the elevator music when I log on.