Ravens @ Panthers, Week 8 Gameday Thread

Honestly, beat us and i think the writing is on the wall for him.

2k

 

Today’ NFL is played different Than when Harbaugh was hired. The rule changes have basically hamstringed defenses . You need a very good passing game to win now. You guys are the only defense under 300 ypg,

 

That has nothing to do with harbs, or it has very very little. It may not sound fair but our success arent a product of his decision or ability, but our failures are, we could go in to it but RR1 has done a pretty good job at covering all the reasons why. For the record, i do not think tomlin is good either, we both good hot air coaches who are all talk and not very good students of the game.

2k

 

Agree to disagree on Lamar. I watched him in training camp 3 times in the beginning, middle and 2nd last and he was not accurate. Talk about touch....he doesn't even have accuracy. There is nothing I've seen since other than these games, but that doesn't appear to have changed.

In regards to Joe throwing too hard, I'll repeat: No coach will criticize their QB for throwing too hard and put that on the receivers who's job it is to secure the ball if they get a hand on it. I believe they call it "laser, rocket arm." It's a good thing and better than soft, wobbly ducks for obvious reasons.

 

This is actually exactly what I said in regards to Lamar. People continue to repeat comments about him with no acknowledgment of his progress. Your post here is flat out judging him from what you saw in training camp. Ignoring improvements preseason, hell even if poring the fact he showed a lot of good on that last drive in Carolina.

Lamar is farther along than Joe was in his rookie year. Lamar's preseason was better than Joe's, or equal. So I don't get why anyone would rather stick with Mr. .500 since 2012 vs at least seeing what we can get from Jackson. We already know Joe at the helm equals no playoffs for 3 straight seasons, soon to be four. Even if Lamar is a bust, I'd rather watch him the rest of the season vs watching the same inconsistent play and 2 yard checkdowns that I've been watching for years

 

A quarterback that has the inability to take something off in the short and intermediate and utilize touch/placement to aid a receiver's ability to reel in a pass can be an issue. It was one of the things that was listed as a potential concern with Baker Mayfield pre-draft and it has shown up already as something he needs to correct at this level. As an example - go back and watch the game against the Jets and watch him throw a cannon shot to an open Jarvis Landry that goes through his hands and bounces off his chest. There's simply no reason for him to rip that pass at that short of a distance when he could have thrown the ball with some touch to Landry's left and led him away from the defender and put him on the move pre-catch, which would have got him running away from the defense and gaining extra yards immediately.

Displaying touch and throwing wobbly ducks are two separate items. Some quarterbacks simply throw a ball that is not as catchable because of the distorted rotation. I've scouted quarterbacks that throw passes that nose down as they move up field making it difficult for receivers to catch because of the angle. But a quarterback that can take something off when needed and move the ball away from one side of the receiver to a better spot away from the defender can increase his completion percentage.

The way I break down accuracy is in four parts -

• Spot Accuracy - Can you simply stand and throw accurately at the spot. It's the type that most people commonly think of first when it comes to accuracy (like throwing at a dart board).
• Anticipation Accuracy - As much mental as physical. Think of a center in hockey. He has to be able to see how the play is going to unfold before it does, sending a pass in one direction knowing that he can change his position or another player will be changing theirs with the play ultimately ending a couple steps later. A quarterback that can see the route developing and throw the ball accurately in the route, in step has this kind of accuracy (seeing the window before it opens).
• Ball Placement - Similar to anticipation accuracy, good ball placement is dependent upon the quarterback being able to recognize the spot where his receiver has the best chance to make the catch while the defender has the most difficult route to break it up.
• Touch to Arc - The ability to know when to take something off of a pass or to put air underneath it to increase the odds of completion. Dropping the pass over a defender to a receiver, timing a wheel route so that the pass goes downfield to the back in step while floating over the defense or simply leading a stopped receiver out of his spot with a pass that comes in softer with arc and forces the pass catcher to move to a better spot and continue the catch on the move.

I consider them all important, but anticipation accuracy gets weighed slightly more in my model.

 

Now we see, I suppose.

 

Lamar hasn't even been given a chance. Let the guy play and see what you have in him. You know what you have in Flacco and it doesn't cut it - Most Steeler fans I know (including myself) were elated when you signed Flacco to the huge contract after his other-worldly playoff run concluding with a super bowl win because we knew he wasn't worth it and was luckier than he was elite during that run. We all kinda had a feeling this would happen and it did. The Ravens need to install Lamar as the QB for the rest of the year and possibly flush Harbaugh. I've defended Harbaugh a while now but bottom line is his approach is antiquated in the modern NFL. I can't believe I'm saying this but our guy in the aviators adapted / evolved with the league better.

 

Clearly in your mind you've moved on to Lamar as much I'd I haven't from Joe. But to say I judge him based on his performance in training camp....YES! That is more than anyone here has seen him in person for anything longer than a couple plays at a time. That is where he received the bulk of his training and he is still nothing resembling a passing QB, Joe or even someone like Deshaun Watson. He played Carolina in garbage time when the game was out of reach.

I'm NOT saying he's trash and he seems like a good kid with a lot of athleticism - lots to work with. But trust me when I say he is not ready to handle the reigns of the offense. He will be hurt before he gets his career started trying to run the ball, he will commit errors in judgement. We all said the same about Tebow too who had more accomplishments in his college career and bad throwing mechanics. Now he plays baseball.

And to say he is farther along than Joe in their respective first season is laughable. How many games did Joe win in his first 9 games? How many did Lamar win his? Oh wait, he hasn't even started in one. C'mon, RR, you can do better than emotional bias.

 

First off, even your comparison hurts your argument. You admitted you are judging Lamar strictly by his rookie preseason, and then you say he's not Flacco or even Deshaun Watson during their rookie preseasons?? They were horrible.

Watson - 51%, 397 passing yards, 7.1 average, 0 TD, 1 INT, 67.3 passer rating, 44 rushing yards, 2 rushing TDs

Flacco - 52%, 284 passing yards, 4.2 average, 1 TD, 0 INT, 68.3 passer rating, 4 rush yards, 0 rushing TDs

Jackson - 50%, 408 yards, 6.0 average, 3 TDs, 1 INT, 77.3 passer rating, 136 rushing yards, 3 rushing TDs.

Are you going to argue that either of them had a better rookie preseason than Lamar??? Since the preseason is all you base your opinion on, you should be excited to see him play since he was far more of a playmaker than both of them in their rookie preseasons. And don't try some "oh, they clearly improved" talk because Harbaugh never wanted Joe to even play a game hos first year. Both of these players you compare him to only got better by actually playing the game.

And there's no emotional bias on my end, there clearly is on yours if you think you can honestly count Joe Flacco "wins" in his first 9 games. Anybody that actually remembers his rookie year knows he didn't win much of anything. That number 2 defense, and #4 rushing attack carried Flacco to wins. He had 2 TDs in only 2 of his first 9 games. He had 200 passing yards in only two of his first 9 games. He threw 7 TDs and 7 INTs his first 9 games.

Your arguments don't hold up. Especially when your focus is just preseason without watching how a kid has improved. I already know if you did mention regular season, you'd focus on that Snead pass, right (as if the 11 year veteran hadn't missed multiple throws like that this year). You won't see pay attention to the great pass on the run to Crabtree last week (not a benefit of garbage time). You won't credit the fact he had improved his pocket awareness, quickened his release, stands in the pocket on passing plays without immediately running, and keeps his eyes down field when he is moving in the pocket. These are all improvements he's shown that are based solely on him, so no "garbage time" reasoning can be given.

He could be great, he could be a bust, but he's not going to improve by just getting second team snaps in practice. And we damn sure weren't being taken to the playoffs by Joe Flacco, so I don't get the issue.

 

First, I said training camp - not preseason games which is not a great indicator since they get put against other players that will be driving an Uber before September. None of those stats tells the full picture and I think you know that.

Second, you're misquoting me. I didn't compare Joe and Deshaun's pre-season to Lamar's, I said rookie season. THEY got the start, Lamar isn't good enough to start or Harb's would've put him by now in order to save this season and his job. Joe and Deshaun were not horrible. They were heralded, Deshaun for being a dynamic playmaker (until he tore his ACL) and Joe for going 11-5 and winning a playoff game.

Lamar hasn't even started a game and the bulk of his snaps on the field are not as a QB - 30 rushing/rec attempts to 12 passing attempts. I saw all that Lamar had to show in TC and his progress in camp was ponderously slow. He hasn't improve that much this season with limited snaps. I also compared him to Tebow too. No comment on that?

I doubt you'll ever agree and that is OK. You didn't see him as much as me and you should concede that at least. That it was half a season ago doesn't nullify the fact. What else you should concede is that you're frustrated with the losses and placing much of this on Joe and just want to see Jackson. That would be a mistake and Harbaugh, even on the hot seat, knows it. Joe still represents the best chance of winning. Is he elite? No, but he can have better games than most starting QBs at any moment. He is the better player right now. Full stop.

Now onto Joe's injury: You might get your wish for Jackson to start anyway. It's reported that he may need surgery or prolonged rest after injuring it during the Pittsburgh game. It's being attributed to the hit that Tuitt laid on him, but a close friend of mine saw the Ravens play in Carolina and said he was slow to get up Joe from a sack by Eric Reid. When his back was hurt last year he rarely threw downfield and we're seeing more of that now. It may be the play calling or lousy execution, but it just as easily could be a nagging injury that affects his long ball.

 

Faulk, that's even worse. So first, you're not even judging him by live NFL action, you're judging a rookie by his first ever NFL action. When he was learning the playbook and had zero idea of the NFL speed.

And even that comparison is worse. You're comparing Joe and Deshaun's rookie season AFTER it was finished (since you mentioned Joe going 11-5) to Lamar's BEFORE he's had a start. Of course there's will be better. You know what, Joe and Deshaun had better rookie seasons than Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady also, if that's how you judge it

I missed the Tebow comment. But that's fine, compare him to a former NFL QB who was hated on, yet all he did on the field was win games. I have no issue with that. Like your previous comparison, it would make more sense to do it after Jackson gets a few starts.

There seems to be two main contingents of Ravens fans. The first group wants Joe benched and Lamar to start, the second group wants Joe to stay as the QB.

The first group has watched Joe play for 10 and a half years and has come to the conclusion that he's no longer in the future plans and will not take this team to the playoffs for a 4th season in a row, so there's no reason not to get the rookie somee experience.

The second group just wants Joe to start because they are holding on to how the rookie played in preseason (or in your case, even further back to training camp). They hold on to the "he's not ready, he's not yet Joe" talk while completely ignoring that Joe was a 3rd string rookie who only started because Boller got injured and Troy Smith got an infection, not because he proved anything. In fact, Joe wasn't even going to be active on gamedays.

In terms of his injury, that actually sucks. Joe seems like a good person, regardless of anything that he has done or done on the field. He may or may not be ready healthy by the Bengals game. These reports are inconsistent. Either way, I hope he gets to make the decision on how his career goes and isn't forced into one direction due to this injury

 

Point. Missed. And you're talking in circles. If you want to compare those apples and oranges between Joe starting his rookie season and Lamar not, then you make my point by doing so. First, that was all circumstance but Joe may have won the spot anyway. We all knew that Boller was on his way because he flat sucked; injury in preseason or not. Smith never was as good as Joe to begin or end with otherwise he could've taken his spot back. Lamar wasn't good enough to overtake Joe camp or now. Only an injury could make that possible. Judging Lamar on what he's done in games now is stupid. He hardly has anything to judge. He's not Deshaun Watson either (who I'd take over Joe at this point) because Deshaun has good throwing mechanics. IF he was good enough, he'd have taken the job from Joe by now cleanly. He isn't and he didn't.

But there's a good chance are you'll get your wish with Joe's injury putting his next start in question so we'll just wait and see if he gets the start over RG and how good he fares IF he does.

 

By not putting the ball in a shitty spot to be caught?

 

You are probably one of the most arrogant posters I have crossed paths with online and none of your bluster is justified.

Sorry not sorry but a lot of your takes are really shitty.

 

So tell us why we should accept some noob's rationale on a franchise QB change when he rashly rushed to judge someone he doesn't even know. Were you just feeling left out? Because I don't recall discussing anything with you in this convo. The fact that you would post something like that after being here for all of 10 minutes shows YOUR arrogance more than mine.

Some friendly advice: Try not to accuse anyone of sins that you yourself are committing just by speaking out of turn. OK?

 

But why do you think that he hasn't been given a chance? Don;t you think is possible he simply isn't ready and the coaching staff knows that?

Think of it this way: RG3 hasn't even suited up since game 1, and he was objectively far better than Lamar in TC and on par with Joe. So why didn't RG3 get the back up spot? I think we can all know that 1) it gives a rookie QB some game day experience, and 2) it uses Lamar in those creative Mornhinweg offensive packages (that don't seem to work half as often as they try). Now, if RG3 was better than Lamar and Joe was better than RG3, that should tell @ravens_R_#1 and anyone else that Lamar wasn't yet good enough. And there is nothing in his limited game play so far shows me he can carry this team unless he's been hiding a secret arm talent 'til now. And if tries to carry it with his legs....crunch! Happens to every running QB.

 

So I'm a noob because I don't spend my time spewing my thoughts like some kind of keyboard diarrhea like you do? I've been on this site since 2014 and I love reading Kid's, Kyreal's and RR1's takes. Your's are barely worth skimming.

I just responded to you quoting me. If you could stop smelling your own shit for two seconds you might have noticed that you responded to one of my posts first. I wasn't even talking directly to you when I posted it.

Again I've been here since 2014 and don't feel the need to pretend I'm some kind of sports analyst. You don't impress anyone.

Some friendly advice: Recognize when the truth smacks you upside your oversized ego driven head and accept that your opinion may be wrong because it often is.

You just got done telling RR1 that forming his opinion the way he did was stupid. That's the kind of arrogant shit I was talking about. It takes a lot to irritate me and I don't recall ever calling someone out on a forum before but you're just a dickhead with how you treat people that dare disagree with you.

 

It is definitely LJ-time in Baltimore.

 

Awe man, this is too early... I was hoping it would be later in the year, so he was starting when we play them week 17. If he stays in as starter, he won't make it to week 17 the way they use him and his legs.