Random Thoughts, Comments, and Opinions

I'm not one of these guys but,

• The Ravens O-line came out of the gate playing better than did the Steelers so turn Pitt's week 1 tie into a win.
• Then, as the injuries start to mount, turn two of Pitt's later wins into a losses.
• Likewise, turn one of the Ravens recent losses (probably to the Browns) into a win.

Result? BOTH teams would currently be 4-4-0. And the Browns would be deep in the hunt for the #1 O/A pick . . . AGAIN!

 

For BMore to have a chance at the 6th playoff spot, they'll have to win I think 2 of the 3 at Atlanta, at KC, and at San Diego.........and still win all the remaining games that they are SUPPOSED to win........Oakland, Cincy at home, Tampa, and Cleveland. Winning 2 of those three road games would leave you at 10-6.

Realistically I see Pitt doing the following the second half of the season:
-Win this Thursday vs Carolina because they are home, and its such an advantage for teams on short week at home.
-Win at Jacksonville..........have had our number, but they have SERIOUS issues right now on both sides of the ball. Don't understand it.
-Loss vs New England.......because its New England and nobody has abused us more last 15 years than Brady and Belichek. Only way we win (maybe) is if Gronk is out.
-Win vs San Diego at home..........west coast to east coast early game, cold weather likely. Glad this is in Pitt in December.
-Win at Oakland..........we've struggled there for a long time, but the Raiders have checked out, and they are STILL unloading players (Irvin to Falcons).
-Win at Denver........tougher game than I think but off full week and Broncos may have checked out by then. Broncos D nowhere near as good as I thought it would be this year, and we have no players with sickle cell trait anymore sitting on the sidelines.
-Loss at New Orleans........we will get bent over a couch this game and spared the lube. Will be shades of KC game......high scoring, but we lose by 14-17 points. I REALLY had hoped the Rams held on to beat Saints because it would make a week-16 game for them likely less meaningful because they would be locked in to the #2 seed at that point, but they will likely play this one for real unless they unexpectedly lose a game or two between then and now.
-Win vs CIncy at home in season finale..........yawn........we own them.

I figure of the wins above, we'll lose one we SHOULD win (Charges, or at Oakland, or at Denver), but even that puts us at 10-5-1. Only way I think Pitt's season gets derailed is if they suddenly get the injury bug to several key players, or there is drama renewed with Bell coming back. I could actually see a scenario where we finish 10-5-1, get the #2 seed, and play BALTIMORE (9-7) the wild card round. Hmmmm..............

 

For BMore to have a chance at the 6th playoff spot, they'll have to win I think 2 of the 3 at Atlanta, at KC, and at San Diego.........and still win all the remaining games that they are SUPPOSED to win........Oakland, Cincy at home, Tampa, and Cleveland. Winning 2 of those three road games would leave you at 10-6.

Realistically I see Pitt doing the following the second half of the season:
-Win this Thursday vs Carolina because they are home, and its such an advantage for teams on short week at home.
-Win at Jacksonville..........have had our number, but they have SERIOUS issues right now on both sides of the ball. Don't understand it.
-Loss vs New England.......because its New England and nobody has abused us more last 15 years than Brady and Belichek. Only way we win (maybe) is if Gronk is out.
-Win vs San Diego at home..........west coast to east coast early game, cold weather likely. Glad this is in Pitt in December.
-Win at Oakland..........we've struggled there for a long time, but the Raiders have checked out, and they are STILL unloading players (Irvin to Falcons).
-Win at Denver........tougher game than I think but off full week and Broncos may have checked out by then. Broncos D nowhere near as good as I thought it would be this year, and we have no players with sickle cell trait anymore sitting on the sidelines.
-Loss at New Orleans........we will get bent over a couch this game and spared the lube. Will be shades of KC game......high scoring, but we lose by 14-17 points. I REALLY had hoped the Rams held on to beat Saints because it would make a week-16 game for them likely less meaningful because they would be locked in to the #2 seed at that point, but they will likely play this one for real unless they unexpectedly lose a game or two between then and now.
-Win vs CIncy at home in season finale..........yawn........we own them.

I figure of the wins above, we'll lose one we SHOULD win (Charges, or at Oakland, or at Denver), but even that puts us at 10-5-1. Only way I think Pitt's season gets derailed is if they suddenly get the injury bug to several key players, or there is drama renewed with Bell coming back. I could actually see a scenario where we finish 10-5-1, get the #2 seed, and play BALTIMORE (9-7) the wild card round. Hmmmm..............

 

Sadly, I like our chances in KC better than in New England. At least we know we can score with KC and you have revenge factor. We are not winning in Foxboro ever again, especially in the playoffs, until either Brady or Belichek are no longer there. Don't care what the injury situation is, or overall talent. Doesn't matter in those games.

 

I see it differently. I think the Ravens are probably 6-2, maybe even 7-1. Point being, this isn't a Harbaugh problem in my opinion. It's a personnel problem and for the life of me I can't figure out why the Ravens don't invest more into their offensive line. Firing Harbaugh would be a mistake but I agree it probably happens if they miss the playoffs again.

 

As bad as the run blocking has been, the pass blocking wasn't bad until players started dropping like flies. Even during those good pass blocking moments, our QB was still inconsistent. Even when the team overcame those moments and had a lead, our HC was still as conservative as he could be. Harbaugh is king of the "grind it out" games.

Maybe he's not as bad of a coach as a few of us have made him out to be, but his approach is outdated. This is a "go for the kill and run up the score" league. These underwhelming coordinators are his choices.

If John was willing to be consistently more aggressive and stopped playing scared, while also going away from constantly signing his yes men/family friends, I'd actually be fine with him sticking around.

Side note, you didn't bring this up, but I don't think Alex Collins is as bad as others do, and I think if the run blocking was at least average, he'd have much better numbers. So I agree about the o-line, in respect to the run game

 

I am somewhat in agreement. I also don't think this is all Harbaugh's problem, but if part of it is his problem, it's his choice of coordinators. Not impressed at all with Morningwheg or Martindale. And it seems like a lot of his assistants are retreads from his father's coaching days.

The strangest thing is that some higher round draft picks have been spent on the O line, but none have ever been as successful as the first one (Ogden). Stanley is capable but nowhere near at the level you'd expect a first round pick to be. Yanda , a third rounder, has a chance to get into the HOF. Alex Lewis was a fourth rounder who can't stay healthy. Skura was an undrafted FA and plays like it. Orlando Brown fell from being a first round prospect into the third round due to his combine and the jury is still out, but he's starting to look like he could be a good one. James Hurst was a highly regarded recruit out of high school, was projected to the 5-7th rounds and ended up an UFA with an injury. He's improved each year with experience but is better suited to guard. They let a quality, mean, center go in Ryan Jensen but he got paid crazy money by Tampa Bay.

The Ravens seem to like to load up on Offensive lineman "on the cheap" but it hasn't worked out for them and depth is nonexistent.

I see the Ravens problem as more of a front office problem. For all the accolades heaped upon him, Newsome, IMHO, hasn't been anything special drafting, but I wonder if that's more indicative of a problem with the scouting department, which started being raided shortly after Phil Savage left to go to Cleveland as GM.

 

Or extend more players BEFORE the final season on their current deal. The Ravens don't seem to do that very often. Will likely lose Moseley this Spring it sounds like. Maybe the players/agents want more than they think they should offer at the time, or the Ravens just have a lot of players pick up their level of play the year before or during their final contract year. They've lost a lot of good players that fit well with them on both sides of the ball the last 5 years or so, and its hard to replace with younger/cheaper players in the pipeline and maintain quality of play and continuity if they aren't ready yet. Haven't they lost a very good player to free agency each of the past three years (maybe four) on their OL....................Osemele, Wagner, and Jensen? I'm sure Ravens fans would trade having those three still with the team now rather than Brandon Williams............not that he isn't a good run stuffer and quality DL. But given that he isn't a true difference maker and 3-down player at DL..........which the Ravens historically have had a pretty good track record at drafting and developing................I'd be far more inclined to keep a good to very good OL in place to protect and buy time for and protect my highly paid QB, rather than tie up $12-15 million on a DT. If he isn't an Aaron Donald (leads the freakin league in sacks as a DT) or even a poor man's Aaron Donald, I'm hesitant to make that level of commitment to a player that I don't look at as a 3-down, dual threat DL that stays on the field.

 

Someone reviewed a few bad Flacco plays. In all these plays, the protection holds up, a receiver is open, and Flacco proves why he will simply never be better than he is regardless of how well people around him play

 

That video was hard to watch because the guy has so many preconceived notions that taint his views so much. In one breath he criticizes Flacco for reading the defense pre-snap and knowing where he wants to go with the ball (as opposed to where the commentator wants the ball to go post snap) to complaining that he doesn't make the pre-snap read.

Scrubbing through a video in a frame by frame basis or via still shots doesn't account for real life. I.E. people are not robots and cannot act in nanoseconds.

It's just a poor video in that he already knows the point he wants to prove and is trying to pick things to help his argument.

On play 1, what's the down and distance? Flacco knows where he wants to go with the ball and picks up yards. If it's 3rd down, then he needs to go deeper, but for all the "stare down", the DB was nowhere near him to bat away the ball or impede the catch.

Play 2 if we are talking about a good old Lebeau zone blitz with the lineman dropping in coverage and staying in his zone. The whole point is to trick the QB and put players where they shouldn't be. If the defender went with Hurst, then the offensive play works beautifully, but the defender stayed put.

Play 3, Buck Allen has to run his route WAY earlier than he does. After the pass is getting thrown, you see him starting to run his route. Flacco had the actual easy pass and catch ready there, but Allen screwed that up.

Play 4, no question Flacco needs to see Allen all alone (just like Jackson earlier in the game).

Flacco has plenty of issues, and some of those are his inability to throw receivers open, pre-throw receivers, and read defenses pre-snap. Yes he certainly can read defenses, but he's not great at it. I just personally can't get onboard with this guy's evaluation or conclusions.

 

Kid, we usually agree on things so I'm surprised we have this much of a disagreement with this video, and Flacco opinions as of late.

Play 1, I actually can't argue your point without knowing the down and distance.

Play 2, they aren't running LeBeau's playbook, unless you mean a similar play. Either way, he had protection. You either have to get the pass out quicker so you're not hanging your man out to dry, as he did, or see which way the LB goes and hit the other guy. He basically gave the defender the easy play

Play 3, you're blaming Buck for not being a checkdown option? He flat out sees Hurst get open. He's looking right at him but plays scared and goes for his usual checkdown instead of hitting a player in stride for a first down.

Play 4, no argument.

He's 11 years in. We just can't keep giving him any excuse possible. If there's ever a chance to blame Joe and another player, fans always blame the player and have for years. I was one of them. "His line can't pass block", "the WRs suck", "bad play calling", etc. When a QB needs great play by everyone around him to succeed, the QB is the problem.

 

I just think the overall situation with the team is so strenuous and people are just beyond their breaking point with frustration, so it's all just coming out now. Again, I'm on board with the idea that we should do a regime change and get Jackson in there playing now. We may or may not win, but it has to be done.

Yeah with play 2, I just meant a similar type of defensive playcall. I don't agree with the guy that Crabtree takes the pass and just scoots for a big gain. Also, that play isn't even in their playbook. When is the last quick slant you recall seeing?

Play 3 I definitely blame Buck there because he did nothing on the play. If i recall, the guy said it was 3rd and 2. Buck releases out to the top of the field where there is no defender, and they get a first down much easier than the throw to Hurst who did have a defender with him. I think Hurst was the 3rd read on the play from the looks of it. It seemed like Flacco was looking deep, then he went to Buck (who wasn't where he should be), and then he came back to Hurst.

Again, I don't argue against the idea that after all these years, we should be seeing the mental game of Flacco get better as opposed to still relying on his physical tools. I just think the Ravens have a self-imposed mess on their hands with so many people having a hand in it. They aren't a league laughing stock, but for fans and an organization who expect a winner, situations like these past 5 years have risen to untenable heights.

 

Good shit, I think we are all a little frustrated and are trying to vent yet attempt to keep an objecitve view on things. I am guilty of being quite mad but i dont regret the general thoughts that i had.

Flacco, just isnt good enough. And a fresh take is better than what we have.

hell, i would rather keep joe and lose john than the other way. Joe is not a terrible qb, he is solid ENOUGH, but i think there is a backroom issue here that is far worse than some people realise.

With that being said, that leads me to...

2k

 

Hi,

I quoted this post because i cant figure out multi-quoting different posts.

You initial question opens the path for a healthy and interesting debate but i think at some point there is a faulty premise that we all tacitly have to accept in order to have it.

And that is that; the O line is either the most important part of an offence OR the the O line is more important than other factors that have been outlined in this thread such as Joe or John etc.

I suppose there is one other thing that can be considered and that is not that A is more important than B but the that sometimes the gap between two O lines can be so great that if they would trade O lines, then the team that had the weaker O line would benefit to the point that they would mask other important issues on the O or compensate sufficiently for them, which in this case i disagree with.

That may be convoluted as balls but im trying to be intellectually honest in understanding your position.

So firstly,

1. To give you a quick answer, i think we maybe pick up 1 extra win at best, everything else equal- coaches, players etc

2. the crux of the quote in this thread for me is the notion that it is a personnel problem, i think we need to define what you mean by that? We are not all stars, we have had 2 big injuries but Yanda is an ALL pro, and Stanley has been solid as balls since entering the league, Joe also frequently gets protection from TE's and back. Our O line is inconsistent but i dont think its an issue on who we have lining up, on that note id happily take decastro (paired with Yanda ....the thought gets me hard).

3. why would firing John be a huge mistake? This needs to be fleshed out but i guess the remainder of this post is also focused on this.

That last point is key if we are to figure out what is the issue here. I do NOT think its just john or joe, but i would say that as it concerns the team, a solid 60% is John over the years ( somewhat arbitrary number but im ok with it for now), and i would say that Joe is responsible for about 40ish percent of our failings on the Offence which if you would grant me is the following ratio of numbers relating to the success of a team overall as 40:40:20 between O D ST, would mean id grant Joe a solid 15-20% of the blame for overall failure. Im using numbers to demonstrate that im not thinking its any one given thing, but i do think that for a team all things considered, front office, back office, team etc, its a significant amount.

So rather than Preemptively assuming your positions here, i would like to start by asking you, and anyone else i suppose who is here and interested,

A)why you think (dont think for others depending on their position) firing john is a mistake? B)How much blame do we give the Front office, back office and joe? other factors.

It's a long complicated question but i firmly believe that in this instance, my perhaps, intuition and reasoning will be found to be fairly on point overall.

For the purposes of clarity, off the top of my head, i would assert that our O line is not in the top 3 issues of our team, and even with a good O line, we would have the same issues because we are poorly coached and have poor gameplan's that are not helped in this instance with the lack of a field general on O and a QB that has seriously stagnated for years but got a pass because we got a ring.

2k

edit: ill edit for grammar.

 

That's a lot to digest but I'll start by saying I think Stanley merely being solid is an issue and Yanda isn't the same guy he used to be.

And then when you start there and work your way down to really poor center and left guard play it makes it very difficult to play the QB position and run an offense.

Can some QBs overcome this? Yes they can but Joe is not one of them and if I'm running the team I recognize that if the Ravens are going to have success offensively Joe needs solid protection and a running game because when he has neither he is just not very good and it shows up on plays even when the protection is good because he feels pressure that isn't there and his mechanics go to crap.

And while I agree you can help with backs and TEs that limits what you can do offensively because it frees up the LBs to drop into zones and clog the middle of the field. And it's not as if the Ravens have stellar receiving threats anyway so when the Ravens were using max protect packages against the Steelers they were asking 2 WRs to beat 5 DBs and a LB. That's hard to do consistently.

A healthy, well-protected Joe Flacco is a weapon. He can make every throw and he can do it from anywhere on the field. A rattled Joe Flacco throwing off his back foot and dumping the ball off as soon as he senses pressure isn't very hard to defend. So if I'm running the Ravens I start with the o-line and work my way out. And I don't understand why the Ravens can't recognize that and build their team accordingly.

Would I wanna pay Ryan Jensen 10M per? Not really but I'd pay that before I would pay a NT who plays less than 50% of the defensive snaps. And instead of chasing a in-the-box safety in free agency I'd chase an interior o-lineman that can protect my QB and open running lanes.

Just my opinion...

 

Flacco has a hip injury. Status vs the Bengals in question

https://theathletic.com/645054/2018/11/09/joe-flacco-hip-injury-lamar-jackson-ravens-quarterback/

 

Both of those assertions can be granted, but i would still place yanda in the top 10 comfortably, and stanley may not be lighting the world on fire, but he is solid but this really is not all that important.

Sure, with injuries our back ups are poor, but our starters arent too bad, and lets note for some reason our team has an aversion to Zeus who has looked promising, this contributes itself to back office coaching decisions.

OK, exactly right, he is not good enough. he needs numerous pieces around him to function at even a serviceable to above average level imo. And a large reason why he cant is because the pieces across the board dont exist in part due to failures on both the front and back office- for example, why the fuck are we shoehorning Hurst in to everything, he has promise but is not there yet. Or what in good god's name is our back system? Why cant we run a screen? these are huge coaching issues and are only a few of the issues on that O but its not just an O line issue, or something a better O line will fix. Let's be clear, your O line would improve us, but their blocking schemes would still be retarded, our plays will be too conservative and Ray charles can read a D better than Joe.

In part this happens because we dont stretch the field or command attention. In part because Joe's accuracy in intermediate to deep routes is shocking, the man has no touch, and he is easily flustered. Our Te's are so hell bent on covering for Joe they dont get to run a seam and test LB's, so your point is valid that max protect makes it easier to stall the O's capabilities but i would argue a biased play calling system, not just run vs pass but conservative and unimaginative makes it easy to stall the O. All of those are Front and back office issues, and also on joes inability to carry the O, or our WR's ability to get separation- a lack of time hurts but wouldn't fix core issues described above.

Well i actually agree with this entire thing, but again, as i said the premise of your point was that the PIT O can essentially mask and compensate for other areas and im fairly confident that your O with our coaches would see a drastic decrease in efficacy. Joe is not good enough, Our recruitment is not good enough, our Schemes are not good enough and yes, our O line is not good enough but i would rank it behind several other factors- which is why i maintain that we still lose most the games we already lost outside maybe 1.

100% Agreed, i was one of those guys who did not catch on the to tidal shift in the NFL thinking an interior lineman is still huge, and while its not dirt shit, unless they are Donald, they just arent enough to warrant that cap hit. So i agree, you want great rookie talents on D, especially at the non sexy positions, with a solid leader, and then you dump cap in to the more important positions on O with the exception of perhaps the CB and pass rush areas.

Well, so far as i know no one is an authority on a subjective sport so opinions is all we have.

2k

 

A likely story...

2k

 

They say it came on the Tuitt hit. Steelers may have solved your Flacco problem for you.

 

Regardless of my thoughts on the player, i dont wish him ill.

2k