Prospects, and the future of the NHL

The media is what it is these days, as bob calls them, the lennies. Vesey was the oldest player in the group, sure he's probably better than a 3rd at this point. Let's just not get ahead of ourselves and see what he's got in the nhl. A real indicator would be a WAR stat.

 

I am going to reiterate:

Please explain why you think this is a point worth repeating at this time. We're talking about where this player will sign, and why. We are not discussing what kind of NHL player he will subsequently prove to be.

If we held to the standard of "not getting ahead of ourselves" then the only thing we could ever discuss is what has happened in the past. We could never speculate on potential trades, FA's or draft picks because we do not know how that individual will perform in the future.

If you feel that there is insufficient basis for us to make reasonable projections for what Vesey will eventually do, then I simply disagree. I believe that there is a great deal of empirical data upon which we can make reasonable and logical projections.

Reasonable and logical projections are what all forward-looking sports talk is about. Why should the Vesey case be treated differently?

 

I wouldn't get trapped into getting high expectations for what someone did at a college level. He's gotten himself a lot of attention with his approach to everything he does from staying in college until 23 to bactracking on his promises to poille. I just think it's a lot of hoopla everyones getting into for a player at the end of the day, I don't see more special than the next guy his age.

 

I understand why it's making news, but I don't think it's a reach to think it might be overhyped. I can see sabres fans getting excited, but even wgr 550 pointed out that he 's never played one game pro.

 

I don't see this any different then let's say a 23 year old standout goalie with the swedish elite league or khl coming to the nhl. Four or five teams want him and the media hype machine goes to overload, then 5 years later his name is jonas gustavsson the monster.

 

not being a prick but im not sure how anyone can put a percentage on where some kid no one here knows will sign. i think there's a decent shot that he chooses a team that lennie isnt talking about. this is an honest question, if he were to sign w/ Buffalo why wouldnt he just do it now? why wait until 8/15?

 

skinny, i dont think youre necessarily wrong w/ your Monster comparison. for NCAA guys theres Schultz and Gilroy as comparables also.
ive seen Vesey play a few times and the thing that stuck out to me was how thick he was and quickly he pushed the pace. same can be said for many AHL all stars im sure.
for whats its worth, exactly 0 cents, i think Vesey is going to be a very good NHLer.

 

If vesey ends up succeeding I'll be happy for him, I just don't see how anyone can say that it's a sure shot, now if he was this dominant with harvard at 19 then I would be really impressed. I saw him play a few shifts in the wjc a few years back and liked what I saw.
As for perecentages, why 1% for others, which includes the leafs, the team that employs both his dad and brother.

 

You seem to be overlooking my essential point; this is not a discussion about the probability that Vesey succeeds in the NHL. And, it has never been the discussion. The discussion is on where he will sign.

I think that it is absurd to suggest that we cannot attach probabilities to our opinions. They may prove to be wrong, but people should take ownership of their opinions rather than couching behind phrases such as: "we really do not know what is going to happen". If you do not have an opinion then sit there silently. I believe the discussion that "we do not know, therefore, we should not get ahead of ourselves", is a defense mechanism intended to protect us from later being "proven" wrong. I say fuck that! to that. I'll paraphrase: "I do not want to sound like a prick, but that's being a pussy in my mind".

I am much more impressed with someone who is willing to let their opinions be known than I am with someone who only speaks up after things have gone the way they expected.

As for the percentages I placed earlier I will respond in two ways:
1) They were primarily a rhetorical device to place emphasis on my opinions and to provoke discussion. I literally quantified my views leaving no doubt where I stand. I do not care if I am ultimately right or wrong; in the here-and-now I am willing to state my outlook. I am contributing to a conversation on a sports chat board, not trying to solve an economic crisis.
2) There is a great deal of information out there to help us determine what we believe Vesey's final decision will be based on. There is empirical information upon which to formulate a logical opinion. Perhaps I have followed this more closely since the Sabres invested a 3rd round pick in this, but it is not difficult to get a gauge on where he's likely to end up. Likely, not certain.

BUF & BOS have a much great chance of signing him than any other team; to the point that I believe that there is a negligible chance that he signs elsewhere - and obviously I'm including TOR in this.

 

Well Dan, TM is with the team, vesey is in another city, and from what I understand the meeting took place yesterday.

 

agree to disagree.

my opinion is that Jimmy Vesey will most likely play in the NHL next year and that we know very little about what is actually going on.

what the lennies report, and then regurgitate, are typically opinion pieces that fans then run with it and eat up. the Vesey story is full of opinion and has very little actual info from Jimmy Vesey. Peter Fish has been somewhat vocal but taking an agent's word as truth and not as a way of manipulating public opinion is naive. i just dont see the point of blindly throwing darts and then continuing to blindly throw darts.

 

Dan's close to the situation, but all his info is off a sportswriter, unless he has close ties to the family, which I doubt lol. Hey Dan, I have wgr 550 24/7, they have vesey talk everyday, let's put it this way, if he signs with the sabres I wouldn't be surprised, but I'll say the same if it's the leafs or bruins.

 

I have as reliable information as anyone. I am actually stunned that my basic point has eluded everyone on this discussion.

Have an opinion. Be prepared to back that with logic. Do not be afraid to be wrong.

I have achieved on all three. This talk on if he will succeed in the NHL - or not, and on if we all rely on the information we gather is, frankly, prattle.

 

Dan, your opinons here are usually valid and informative. On this one, everything's behind closed doors, you're talking about a player that already has a rep for telling gm's half truths. His agent has already came out and said the trade for his rights meant nothing. It's either his hometown, his family or his buddy jack, and that's all we know.

As far as if he'll succeed, there's a real long list of players that thrived in juniors,.NCAA, any european elite league that didn't do well in the pro's, this is just stating the obvious.

 

If Vesey develops into a great NHL player (or even makes it as a journeyman) is not relevant to this discussion.

That is another discussion. Although, I think it is very reasonable to expect that he'll be very good, probably a top six on most rosters. Of course he'll be cost contained for two years, (not particularly important for BUF, but important to many).

But, here we're discussing where he will sign, not if he deserves to be signed. Vesey has explicitly innumerated the important factors that will make his decision.

We simply do not have to speculate on what he wants in his new home. Of course there is some subjectivity associated with answering these for him. But I disagree with the assertion that we cannot reasonable project which team he will select.

Buffalo checks off every single one of his boxes, and no other team does. The possible allure of playing for his childhood team could prove decisive. Boston checks a lot of his boxes. Toronto only checks a few; just like Philly. I do not think any other team will be seriously considered at all.

 

My opinion is that he'll go to Aug.15th, then he'll decide. If buffalo was a such a clear cut favourite, as you put it at 84%, then he would've signed yesterday. Just trying to look at it logically, seeing as the sabres have had his rights now for over a week. If he takes it to Aug.15th, this would have to be very concerning from a sabres perspective.

 

vesey will sign in the northeast. 94%
vesey will be like shultz and see 3 teams in 5 years. 60%
vesey will run to the khl. 25%
vesey will sign in chicago. .002%

 

If this goes past July 15th then I will agree that it'll go to Aug. 15th, (and, at that point Buffalo's odds will be reduced).

A lot of people are butthurt that Vesey is in a position to decide his fate. It's not his fault that most prospects have things dictated to them. Meanwhile, there is absolutely no benefit in having a quick decision. He's applying his Ivy League education (fuck Hahvahd!) and will make a deliberate decision.

I suspect he's evaluating rosters after the draft & FA to help give him satisfaction that he's made the right choice. Again, there is no reason to rush this since another week or two makes zero difference.

 

It's official, Vesey will go to free agency on Aug.15, he will talk to the sabres today.

 

This statement smacks of getting ahead of ourselves. Official? Really, on what basis? Nothing can be official until one of two things happens: Vesey signs with Buffalo before Aug. 15th, or he goes to FA after that date. Otherwise, nothing is official.

It's not likely that any news report indicating that Vesey has made a final interim decision about Buffalo yet are accurate. Tim Murray and Dan Bylsma are flying to Boston this morning to meet with Vesey and his agent.

One thing I do wish to get out of the way is that if Vesey does not sign with Buffalo I will not hold that against him. Many seem butthurt about how he is corrupting the time honored servitude that young players are obliged to adhere to. There is a lot of angst being expressed over how he seems self-important and is dictating to the NHL and not the other way around. All he has done is to use the system - and probably his second-rate Hahvahd education - to his advantage in a completely legitimate fashion.

If he skates for Boston, Toronto, Chicago, or Nashville I will not pull for his success, but I will not begrudge his decision.

Still, remember this, I am not going pussy here and couch my words behind the obvious uncertainty of the final outcome. The chances are very high that he signs with the Buffalo Sabres.