omg cutter seeing the light! hextall was a great scout and won a cup? what is there not to like? has clarke or holmgren won a cup as an executive? no. hextall and even bill barder did with tampa. he has more upside than homer. giroux is clearly not the leader now of this team or franchise. he's overpaid, doesn't score enough and is clearly not a leader. cutter is right about the other guys. no heart or leadership in any of them.
He's in his 7th year, I'm confident most of us could put the team where it's at with that much money to spend.
so what do ya think cat? Lucic for Giroux? you won't have to worry about fighting and I dont think Lucic is capable of golfing.
wow-how much money is his cap hit ? i like giroux, but i wanna see 5 -10 other players get the boot first.
so what do you think a power forward should be paid. Hartnell may be a little overpaid but for a 30 goal scorer whos able to bring more to the table than a guy who just shoots all day and does nothing else Id take the guy that fights AND scores. dont even start on Simmonds, thats not a bad contract and weve yet to see the best of him. hes better than Hartnell, I actually think if Hartnell isnt the captain Simmonds should be. you havent watched much hockey of you think Simmonds is a bad power forward contract, ever heard of Corey Perry - market was set and they were paid accordingly
omg cutter and i agree. i like simmons. haha. if he made captain, wouldn't that make him the first black captain in nhl history?
i don't think bob's saying that the contract itself is as bad as having too many of the same kind of player. i have to agree w/ him on this one. St Bigfat + Malcolm Subban for Claude Giroux. thats my final offer.
sold. i am driving him to the airport and i slipped kimmo timmonen in his bag for you and his $6 mil salary!
thats funny cat. instead of using the term 'mickey', as in slipped a mickey, I'm going to say 'slipped a Kimmo' from now on.
For Hartnell, he's going to be 32 at the end of this year. I don't have a huge problem with his cap hit (I would have found 5.6 x 3 or 4 far more reasonable), I have a problem with the length of his contract. He'll be in his late 30s at the end of his contract, he's not going to hold up barring, what I would consider, a near miracle. Since he's breaking down in the 2nd consecutive year, it might be too late to hold out hope. If Simmonds was not there, I wouldn't have as much of a problem with the contract. I really like Simmonds, he's an excellent defensive player and a somebody that can really push a line all by himself since he skates so hard so often. I think we've seen his peak offensively, he doesn't have the hands to score 30. I think expecting 20 is about all one should reasonably hope for, with 25 within reach in a scoring role (that he should not be in regularly). I've said it before and I'll say it again, I think 2012 was a fluke goal scoring wise, he almost matched his best year in the jrs. If Hartnell gets booted then 30 might be possible with all the extra ice time with playmakers, but I don't think his hands are good enough to be in that role. As for his contract, Simmonds is getting paid like a 2nd line player but he's a 3rd line player in PHI right now. The problem is that Hartnell is there. He scored half his goals last year when he was on Hartnell's line/situational ice time. Once he went back to his regular role, he was getting paid 4 million in a cap hit without the return on investment. Hartnell is the better player still because he is a better finisher. Either contract is fine by itself. The contracts are redundant and too long, again because they're both there. They signed them to about 9 million in a cap hit for 6 years and only saw 23 goals in 48 games from the role last year. Move either player and I like the other's contract much more than I do. It's a matter of the whole being less than the sum of the parts in the same sense as if Boston were going to carry Bergeron, Krecji, and Seguin this year. Each individual contract is nice enough but the redundancy kills the value. Most power forwards are more of a role player rather than a core-type since their effective shelf life is always going to be in question. Perry is an elite player in the league, there is no comparison. Every team needs a player that can fill the power forward role if they want to be a serious contender and that's why they usually get inflated contracts like Bickell received. They had to keep Bickell or Stalberg on an inflated deal. Neither's best asset is easy to replace so they picked Bickell since he was very good in 4 of his last 6 playoff series where Stalberg struggled.
Hart in 2011 along with the Richard that year. He had that crazy run of scoring to finish the year. Only had 15 last year but he lost games because of his suspension and because they never had to press the first 30 games or so. Perry isn't the skate stomper Ryan is.
Im not understanding the whole 'they already have a power forward' thing. the more the better, why have only one guy that does that kind of thing. I also dont see Perry as an elite player so much, talk about a fluke - that 50 goal year was the epitome of that. I like the guy(although I think hes not really a power forward) but hes weak, cant fight and not gonna touch those totals he had in the past. take Getz out of the equation and hes Hartnell minus the ability to fight and go in the corners, rendering him a not so power forward. also Im curious to see how little he does now without teams having to focus on Ryan too. Palmeiri is ok but hes not even close to Ryan. We'll see his true colors this year. Simmonds has not peaked, that guy is still very young. he gets it and has good hands to go with excellent speed. hes very elusive one on one and can dangle very nicely die to a lanky long reach. This guy is the real deal, Ive said it since day one. You will see in time, if hes played the right way(which he isnt) what he can really do
With the cap it's about the mix of talent in the top 6/top 9 for a given cost. Speedy wingers are often missing size, Big powerful forwards are often missing speed, etc. Too much of the same makes a team too easy to defend against overall. If they are spending a bunch on power forwards, there's going to be a holes elsewhere like depth or the blueline (both we see in PHI). Getz has been out of the equation twice for extended times and has played in a limited capacity many others. Perry has spent a number of the last few seasons as part of the single ANA scoring line and still produced at rate higher than almost every wing in the league save a few, for the past 4+ seasons. Maybe he hasn't peaked, but he does have about 400 games under his belt and turned 25 last offseason. I think you trust his offense and hands far more than I do but I do think he's a very good quality 2 way player. How do you play him the right way without playing Hartnell the wrong way? That's my whole point, somebody is being wasted and that minimizes contract value. I thought putting him on a line with Vinnie and Read was a mistake. Read is another topic.
