Also some mixed reviews as Deshone Kizer throws at his pro day. Some scouts love that he's executing throws in pro-based offensive scheme/routes. Some think its a limp dick performance telling people what they mostly already know. I'm inclined to believe the latter. My problem with Kizer right now is that I don't believe Kizer has enough NCAA experience to be entirely polished stepping into the next level. He was extremely streaky and got benched several times in 2016 for Malik Zaire; a quarterback that's more of an athlete than a passer.....Kizer was the best QB on ND's roster, and he had weapons and talent around him......he and the team just......took a shit. A scout did mention that after an interview with Kizer, he strongly questioned Kizer's commitment......Kizer was an especially boring interview. I'm not going to put too much stock in that. A) The NFL and scouting/personal interviews ask some really stupid question. Didn't the Dolphins question Dez Bryant about his mom being a prostitute temporarily to make ends meet? And didn't Dez say he wanted to beat the fuck out of then-GM Jeff Ireland shortly after? I would have too. Also B)--a 1 hour interview isn't enough to really get to know someone.....and what this scout is basing this off of. Mongo did write up earlier in week that SF is enamored with him, I'm reading the same things right now too......Do the 49ers take him 2nd overall? That part I'm having trouble seeing. This doesn't bode so well--but I see the 9ers trading out of the 2nd spot if Kizer is their end game, must have guy. Most teams don't have him sniffing the top 5 on their big boards. And #2 overall is a good place to trade up to if the Browns decide they want to throw a curve ball and pass on Myles Garrett. Former Bears scout Greg Gabriel's twitter a week back implied Garrett perhaps isn't the #1 hands down pick for the Browns, few teams know who the guy they want is until much closer to the draft. ***Edit Bears not at Kizer's pro day. Brad Biggs tweeted Kizer will come into Halas Hall for private workout and interview. Much less scripted than a pro-day.
Ahh the draft, we still have that. Where you and I point out players who end up being good on teams not called the Bears. I have given up on the QB's, i am starting to think Pace is too chicken shit to put his name on one, hence his fascination with other teams backups. Great job on the pro day summaries.
All my enthusiasm for the draft is gone. The fact is Pace has taken a 5-11 team, turned it into a 3-13 team, and is now working to turn that into a 1-15 team. Pace is the worst GM in franchise history. Too bad cuz Patg and Aggie continue to provide quality posts/scouting reports. Maybe we ought to create a bye week GM search thread.
Great write up patg. What I particularly love about this thread, is it is called "bye week draft update" and it was started.....in 2014.
Hey, all. Usually, there are few greater football joys to me than discussing and evaluating players with the phenomenal posters here who put the time in. It's awesome, and I appreciate you guys for it. I haven't dedicated that time this year, largely because I am so fed up with this team and Pace that they have killed much of my excitement for this draft (as I know a lot here have echoed). I have the feeling that I can evaluate it all I like, but I'll come away disappointed from what Chicago ends up doing. Although, last year, Whitehair was my top G, I liked Floyd's talent and promise, and I had Howard as a 2nd/3rd round talent, and loved that all of them ended up Bears. So, hey, maybe Pace surprises me, and shows he's improving each year. That would be awesome. Nonetheless, I'm going to spend some time this week digging in and doing at least a fraction of my usual work. I'll obviously be sharing everything I see, and I can't wait to be proven dead right or wrong, and discuss it with you all in the meantime. I'll also be posting (for the players that I do it) the timestamps and games (and the videos, if I can figure it out) of the plays that are of note in my evaluation. I'll throw a couple that I've already done up, for starters. So, in short - let me know what you guys want to see! I plan on continuing the DB position heavily, because this draft is so rewarding at the position. But any other suggestions, I am happy to acquiesce. Do you care more about the potential 1st round picks? Or maybe the roster-filling gems later on, if they can be found? Lemme know! I'll be sharing it as I get through it. The draft being this week has reminded me that I love it. Looking forward to discussing this week and all it holds with you all, as always, ladies and gents. Peace!
Jonathan Allen , DT - Alabama Nearly impossible to stop 1-on-1. Often neutralized by double teams. Explosive off the snap, but lacks elite acceleration to the passer. Dictates terms of engagement. Uses arms/hands extremely well to keep OL disengaged. If beaten off the snap, gets pushed around. Keeps his head up - excellent play recognition. Hailed as a potential 3-4 DE, but often plays in a 4-man front. Fit is a problem - he lacks the double team prowess to fit as a perfect 2-gap run stopper or penetrator. Doesn't have elite acceleration to rank among elite pass rushing 3-techs - beats his man with leverage and strength, requiring a requisite time. Best fit is likely to maximize 1-on-1 blocking and allow him to be a constant penetrator in the middle, though he will never be quite as sudden as the stars at the position. Injuries are a sincere concern - had a history of shoulder-area injuries, though he has always displayed excellent functional upper body strength. If medical passes off on his re-injury risks, this shouldn't be a concern. Top 10 talent. Fit for a DC will dictate exactly where he goes and what he's asked to do. Texas A&M game: 10:25 1st Q - Sack Shows good balance and explosion. Great hands to keep OT disengaged and move past. Great anticipation of OT's approach. Great effort to finish play with sack. 2:02 1st Q - Run Stop Lined up at nose, explodes up. Knocks back C, keeps head up, moves to hole and engages RB. First off the snap. Great body lean/angle. Too strong, extends his arms to bench the C. 12:48 2nd Q - Run at/past Benched C, too slowly to disengage/get to RB. Did not get pushed back, but did not make a play. Couldn't locate runner/hole? Speaks to requisite time it takes for him to disengage from blocker. 12:10 2nd - Run Manhandles G. Play runs to opposite side, but he clearly clogged his hole and disengaged, effecting the play. 6:53 2nd - Pass Rush Completes the stunt from C around G. Not enough explosion back upfield through the hole to threaten. 6:48 2nd - Pass Rush Completes the stunt from LG around RG - never engages. Could improve lateral agility by a step. Threatens coming through hole, not enough acceleration to finish. Blocked by recovering OL. 5:15 2nd - Pass Rush Lined up over LT. 4-3 DE responsibility. Beats man around outside. QB quick release. Good use of hands/arm length to keep OT from engaging, moves well laterally, keeping shoulder square to passer. Ah, shit. This is embarrassing. I have no idea where my remaining notes on him are, including the second half. I use this notebook for a number of things. They could be mixed up with any other handful of papers. I'll post 'em up when I find them. Hopefully this gives an idea, in the meantime. As a player, I wouldn't be mad having Allen on my team. He can play ball. But I'm not convinced he's the outstanding player I feel a #3 pick deserves.
Dline, a player that I've liked to have seen more of is Washington CB Kevin King. In a mini write up I did my analysis of him is a big body CB without the elite mental make up to be able to comfortably stack him up against opposing #1 WRs. The pundits (and pretty much all of ccs)don't agree with me. I think he's a late 2nd-4 round pick, and now I'm seeing him late 1st/early 2nd. Now that naturally comes with the ups and downs of workouts, injuries, etc. I think it's foolish to consider him a #1 db, and think he'll underachieve if some team pops a late 1st/early 2nd to try and make him their anchor/shut down CB. King, though a little overshadowed by fellow secondary all stars Buddha Baker and Sydney Jones--seems to now be getting a ton of praise. More than deserving IMO. Help me see what I can't. How is this kid a 1st rounder to some?
Kevin King , CB - Washington I watched the USC, Arz St, Alabama, and Colorado games (all from 2016 - I rarely see the need in watching older footage). I won't provide timestamps, only because it's far less practical with a CB, who isn't directly involved in as many plays. Also, with DB's, I find it imperative to watch combine workouts. Seeing hip flexibility in isolation is paramount. Prince Amukamara, for example, if it weren't for the injuries, would still be a limited CB - his hips are stiff as a board. Unfortunately, I did not see much combine footage when it was on, so I regret that I don't have that reference. This can be a hard read, largely due to what he was asked to do in Washington's defense. The outside corners were usually asked to open their hips and bail from the snap, which can make it difficult to get a feel for what a CB can do in full. Shows adequate long speed and strong acceleration downhill. His size is obviously his greatest asset. Wants to be physical first, from the snap. Unfortunately, doesn't show proficiency in running with his man after the initial contact, and if he whiffs on that contact, is going to be useless on the play. Poor recovery. Doesn't play the ball well over the shoulder/against a receiver he's trailing. Needs more fluid hips/quicker change of direction. Lets his upper body get ahead of his feet when flipping. Will win jump balls - shows good ball skills when he's able to make a play. Not willing to make a play on the ball carrier if it's not his man/there's a blocker in the area - a guy you can gain an extra 2-3 yards against. Showed discipline not to make bone-headed plays (ie. Drawing penalties). Is a different player in the red zone than in the open field, as it plays to his strengths - boxes out well, keeps his eyes on the QB, and plays the ball. His Colorado tape was way different that his other games. He was asked to play tight to his man and mirror through the play far more, rather than bailing and coming back downhill. In these cases, he ran with the receiver well, didn't try to be over-physical at the line, and pushed his man to the boundary. This was the best showcase of what he was able to do. Showed the ability to turn with his man and keep his head to the QB. Broke up passes due to tight coverage. This was the first game I saw him do anything akin to backpedal, though there was very little of it. Obvious questions of opposing receiver talent are valid. Ultimately, I agree with you. I think he's a late 2nd-3rd round talent. If I was able to see more from him in the mold of what he did in the Colorado game, I'd likely move him up. But, he showed a proficiency in multiple responsibilities, given all of his footage. You're likely drafting him due to his size, and the potential to play with some of these WR's whose greatest asset is also their size. He has excellent acceleration, and if you're going to be asking him to play a Cover 3, or responsibilities similar, you could justify a higher pick, coupled with his size. But if you want him running with his man in tight coverage, you're going to want to see more from him, first. If you're concerned about his lack of flexibility, and not showing backpedal/man coverage skills, he's a 3rd or even 4th rounder. If he's drafted in the first, I'll be critical of the pick, given how much talent is in this draft. But a team who has worked him out privately, or plans to use him to his strengths, I could see a pick anywhere in the 2nd due to his rare size and downhill acceleration. Fit is going to be very important - he could easily flounder and bust if asked to man up against good route runners (he's ripe for the picking), or could be a splash player in a Cover 3, and neutralizing big receivers.
To the above point, I've only watched a few minutes of Tre'davious White's Florida tape, and he's already shown better man coverage than King did at any point, though he doesn't quite possess some of the physical traits that King does.
The reason I've always loved doing evaluations of my own, rather than relying on the "experts", is because sometimes they absolutely baffle me. I'm evaluating Quincy Wilson, and he is absolutely useless and unwilling in run support. Several of the guys I scouted already had been knocked by the "experts" for their lack of ability against the run - each of these players had somewhat slight frames. Wilson, being more well built, I had a sneaking suspicion... I checked his evaluations, and they all repeatedly praise his toughness and willingness against the run. I have no idea what they're watching, but it sure as shit isn't Wilson. I've literally watched him run away from ball carriers, so far. But, he's not a small guy, so he's gotta be "tough and physical". This is the stuff I hate. I'm having a good old time evaluating, and I'm reminded of all the bullshit that surrounds the lead up to the draft. Ugh. Long story short - Wilson is useless against the run, but is a heck of a man coverage corner.
First--excellent write up on King. I'm not the only one. And this right here. He was Washington's #2 CB, meaning Sydney Jones lined up on opposing #1s. It wasn't King covering Smith-Scheuster, Shay-Fields, Gabe Marks, Tim White, and Chad Hanson. I could buy him that high if it was and he cleaned up his game a little...... I do as well, and a big part of the reason why is the overkill upon overkill of mock drafts. Personally I don't care for the damn things, but its making some people I've read before just unreliable. I used to love walterfootball--but the dude comes out with 2 mock drafts every week, since mid-college football season. That's too damn much, and especially in January-March when its slow just before and after the superbowl. If you really want to be overwhelmed, or just pissed off by pointless trade down scenarios--check out chicitysports....... That and ideas get old, and they're very seldom right, but then again--its easy to pass yourself as an "expert" if you make 60-something mock drafts and a team picks a guy you guessed he'd go to. If you're going to pump out 2 drafts a week, you have to see some of the crazy/different, like Kevin King in the 1st round. With the big draw these damn things are becoming--its leading to misinformation. One of the few guys I like to read that's left that isn't a goof is Nolan Nawrocki......
Well, first, Pat, I agree on all of the above. When you've gotta hype something that doesn't change for three months, you've gotta publish a lot, and make sure most of it is incendiary. I haven't looked at a mock draft beyond this site, or speculation I hear on the radio from time to time. No point. But, while we agree on King, I'm not sure you're gonna love my take on Jones. I've got him as a lower 2nd rounder, and about 5th/6th at the position, even prior to injury. I'm not quite done with CB, yet, but I've got several guys ahead of him already. But to his credit, he did have to cover the receivers you listed. He saw one of the harder lineups this year and did a good job with it.
Jones, with his Achilles injury may not be the same. I have him 3rd round right now. A prime gamble for a team okay with redshirting him essentially for 1 year before letting him be a rookie. I never thought the bears would take him before the Achilles and don't think Pace will gamble on redshirtig him unless he falls to 4th or beyond--which he won't. He can come back 100% from the Achilles. Jaylon smith with his debilitated knee injury went round 3 last year, no? Jones being round 2-3 doesn't shock me at the moment. With no injury I think Jones is a top 2 cb in the draft.
Gareon Conley. Wow. Idiot. King may find himself in the top of the 2nd right now with guys falling and not too many rising in terms of CB.
There are a number of projected high picks who have put into jeopardy their future - seemingly more each year. It's astounding. Of course, no Ohio State player doing something stupid surprises me. Urban Meyer cultivates them. He's a stain on education and the perpetuation lawful society.
Patg, While I was at the game last night, I had to tell you about a guy I know we both liked coming out of college, Scooby Wright. While he didn't really catch on with the Browns, he has been doing really well here in Arizona. They are really high on him and watching him in preseason (even last night) he is always around the ball like he was in college. Guy has great instincts and is just a football player. Won't wow you with measurables but he can play. Glad to see him hitting his stride, he looks to finally be healthy again and ready to play, look forward to seeing him here with the Cardinals.
I shouldn't get excited about week one of college football...... But West Virginia has 2 guys Virginia Tech cant figure out how to block or cover. This SS/LB hybrid Kyzir White and WR Gary Jennings. These two look faster and better than anyone I've seen all weekend. If WV's quarterback didn't suck, this should be a blowout. Though I want to give Michigan's defensive line a hand. And Washington's Byron Murphy. The huskies just know how to churn out quality CBs and I'd like the bears to get one. CB, Edge, RT, WR, and obvious talent are what I'm watching this CFB season--though I don't think I'm going to watch as much as I normally do this year. Half-drunk thought/Note* I don't know if the bears can figure out how to make a player like this position (the hybrid LB/S) effective, but I'd kill to see it in the bears' 3-4, and as the league changes, I think this hybrid position is going to become far more of a standard in the NFL in a couple of years. We've seen a couple already become huge hits in Sua Cravens in Washington, Shaq Thompson in Carolina, and Jabril Peppers (so far this preseason), Deone Buchannon, and a couple other's I'm sure I'm missing sans Kam Chancellor. I'm confident Vic Fangio could figure out a way to make something like that work, although his prior 49er resume has him with more traditional safeties, and sadly--the bears haven't had decent enough safeties to consider them "traditional" in Fangio's time here. So far this preseason, I cant tell if the bears are trying to use Christian Jones this way. He's been bouncing inside and outside at LB, I've seen him drop into coverage in both zone/man, but not as a safety whereas in times past I've seen him--he's just been out of position. Has anybody else noticed that, or am I just reading too much into preseason defensive schemes considered to be "vanilla" this time of year? Or has Jones just looked more intelligent in his career progression from experience? Curious thought. My personal opinion--this position is going to get far more popular in the NFL in coming years and its almost a standard now at NCAA level if you want to be relevant--and the bears have a chance to be in on it going into 2018 and beyond and be ahead of the curve. Gah, I need another Gumballhead
First and foremost, Christian Jones is awful in coverage. If they intend to use him in that capacity, at all, expect TD's over his head. Second, I haven't gotten to watch any college football, yet, but I recall Kyzir White being one to pay attention to. I would love to see the Bears get in on the hybrid position, if only because versatile players allow for more plays to be made, and make it harder for offenses to see what's coming. A lot of the guys you mentioned as succeeding in that role on the NFL weren't top draft picks, either, because it has been a relatively new utilization in the league. Good to see them being put in position to succeed, and the teams and coaches that were really ahead of the curve are being rewarded. On a separate note, Brad Kaaya was cut by Detroit months after being drafted. Remember when the draft experts said this guy might be the real deal? Remember when any media covering college football said he had something, and to watch him? I kept telling people he was garbage, and I kept being told I was wrong. As last season went on, he proved me right. Of course, some people can't stay away from bad decisions - Detroit spent a draft pick on him. Now he's cut. He's a good kid, and all, but... He's one of many that's a testament to why you don't listen to talking heads. I'd rather talk with those here than listen to the people on TV. That simple.
I think the position is going to succeed too, because its ideally a box safety that's big enough to be a linebacker. With the more advanced conditioning and training tech, kids are becoming hyper-athletic compared to 20 years ago. They're going to school bigger, faster, and stronger. But as we've seen on the back end, that cuts careers at about 30-33 instead of 34 and older in terms of age. That's the biggest downside, and it doesn't matter because even if you're talented, there's no guarantee you'll be in the league for a decade. If I remember correctly, 6 years in the league makes you eligible for NFL retirement benefits, that's a lot longer than it looks. Wear and tear shouldn't matter because you cant plan for 10 years down the line. I was never that hot to trot on Kaaya. His arm strength is notable. His penchant for staring down his targets is why he went that late and also why he's gone now. That's not good enough in this league.
SS/LB hybrid Kyzir White Watched that whole game and this guy stood out to me as well. He seemed to be everywhere. I would the Bears to see the future and get a guy liked this on the team, will definitely be watching more of him this season. Will Grier is garbage, the only redeeming quality he has apparently is his smoking hot wife. Missed one wide open WR after another. Anothet player to watch that stood out to me is Michigan LB Devin Bush only a Sophmore but this kid is fast and disruptive, making play after play. The Michigan defense was very impressive, much faster than in years past, Harbaugh has some players on that side of the ball.
