I can see it too, Myles Garrett is a great player. BUT you have to be convinced, with 100% certainty, that Watson, Trubisky and/or Kizer are not going to be quality NFL starting QB's, especially if your the Browns because you already passed on Wentz last season by trading for more picks. I also think with the 12th pick, which the Browns have, you can take the QB and even if you are wrong, fall back on drafting a solid player at 12 and not set back your team. BUT if you pass and one of these 3 is a solid NFL starter, you quite possibly screwed your franchise over once again. If you are in the top 5 of the draft and don't have a NFL caliber starting QB, you have to be 100% sure that any QB available when you pick has no chance of being a quality NFL starter. You can make a mistake now by drafting the wrong QB and move on quickly, the set salary structure allows that, but you cannot make a mistake passing on a guy that ends up being a quality starting QB. The Bears have the number 3 pick, if somehow the first 2 end up being QB's and the Bears get Myles Garrett I will be thrilled but only because with 2 QB's gone, the Bears have no choice but to wait to draft one later on. QB is King and if you pass you better hope like hell they end up sucking.
I'm inclined to agree with all of it. And I know quarterback is king, and again; I get its a position Pace cant fuck around with or ignore further....... But if Myles Garrett is on the table at 3, quarterback will wait for me. I know its BPA, and a luxury in a position the bears could use some improvement at, but are pretty well off compared to other positions. But a complete, Von Miller type edge I'd lose sleep over if we passed on. As fast as Leonard Floyd, as quick a first step/move as Miller, and as disguisingly powerful as Elvis Dumervil, where you think the lineman has him and then he overpowers them. I see a great mix for Garrett that seemingly can only be brought down by injury or bad personal decisions. Like Michael Phelps was born a swimmer, I think Garret was a born pass rusher. That's how good I think he is. I've seen Cleveland linked to Trubisky often, they like him and Garrett. The 49ers are tough to put my finger on. A new coach needs a new quarterback, and they've added multiple times early in previous years with Arik Armstead and DeForest Buckner to their front 7, and their secondary needs some help at CB, but I have trouble seeing them take a CB #2. Its too early again, and SF has been spotted meeting with 2nd round potential players in Christian McCaffrey and OJ Howard. The draft pundits seem to think its a QB at #2, but they all disagree on the style. If Kyle Shannahan is their guy they're waiting for, I think Kizer fits that scheme going forward than Watson because Shannahan's offense needs a pocket guy who can move. And Kizer compares better to Matt Ryan than Watson does.
I've heard that SF might be interested in Kirk Cousins, an unrestricted FA unless he gets tagged again, who would be reuniting with Kyle Shannahan. Cousins attended the NFC Championship game and rumors are that he may have met with Shannahan during that time. If that's the case I could see SF trading that pick to a QB hungry team. I expect the Browns to do something stupid. This was a team that last year drafted 5!!! WRs last year despite having by far the least talented roster in the NFL. I fully expect that whoever is picking #2 will go QB. That means Trubisky or Watson should be available at #3. Pace, being the smartest guy in the room, is going to go BPA. He did that with the Kevin White pick, although Vic Beasley would have filled a position of greater need, Pace of course knew better than that. If I had to bet I would say Pace passes on a QB till the 2nd or 3rd round. Our first round pick will likely be another project with lots of potential whose guarunteed to miss a significant chunk of his rookie year with an injury or two.
If he doesn't want either QB that's still there, who's to say he won't trade down being the smartest guy in the room and all.
I wouldn't rule that out but I'm guessing someone will be on the board at #3 that he will view as a can't miss.
Do you think perhaps he has his eye on a future hall of fame kicker? Because you can't rule that out.
I'm assuming they adjusted their BPA scoring because if Kevin White was rated as a better player than Vic Beasley, your scoring system needs adjusting. Lets assume it changed because landing Floyd and Whitehair last year looks pretty good right now. I really hate talking about Kevin White, not only because he was the first pick in rebuilding project, but also because it is a position I put way on the bottom of the scale of importance. To make matters worse, Kevin White was taken in between Leonard Williams and Vic Beasley. I understand the concept of BPA in that you don't want to overdraft based on needs but I really would be curious the formula used to compare a LB, WR and Offensive lineman. I want to see a formula that equates Kevin White to being a better player than Vic Beasley. I also want to see the formula that came up with the BPA being the 3 guys Pace drafted in the 4th round over any QB but namely Dak Prescott. I'm not sure Pace's formulas puts extra weight on the QB position because we have 2 drafts and not one QB taken.
I think Garrett goes 1 or 2. I think like you, he is going to grade out to high for one of those two teams to either pick him or trade down. I personally have Watson significantly higher than any of the other QB's. Right now after watching more of Trubisky I like him next but don't like that I only have 1 seasons worth of work. I would have a hard time right now drafting him over some of the players who will be available in the top 5. I'm sold on Watson, was prior to the season and still am now with his resume being even more impressive in my opinion. I personally think Watson is the only QB worth taking in the top 20 of the draft. Just not enough of playing time for Kizer or Trubisky for me to take any higher than that. I think the Browns are going to have a hard time passing up on Trubisky. I expect him to excel in the pre-draft underwear Olympics because he has a great arm, prototypical size and good athleticism plus the kicker, he is from Ohio. He fits the mold except as to why he was only good enough to start for one full season. He plays in a simple system but I saw a guy against Stanford who was confused by a team that runs a NFL like system and disguised coverages well against him. So Watson is lighting up Alabama in the NC game for the second year in a row while Trubisky struggles in the Sun Bowl against a very average Stanford team. While he has the physical talent to excel, not sure if or how long it will take for him to have the mental talent to match the physical skill. Patg, I agree the 49ers are tough to put a finger on but maybe things will settle down once we see who their GM is. I agree with you that Watson does not fit the mold of what Shanahan wants at QB but who really knows what Shanahan will do once given the HC gig. He is a brilliant offensive mind and has had success with Matt Schaub, RGII, Kirk Cousins and now Matt Ryan. I think Trubisky or Kizer fit the mold of more of what he wants to do. I do think the 49ers and Shanahan will want offense and with a lot of holes to fill, if they are not enamored with one of the QB's, I see this pick being traded down because their are defensive players galore with the highest grades. So this pick is the wildcard depending on what the Browns do, QB or Garrett.
San Francisco picks #2. So if they get Cousins, they go.......I have no idea what they really need. WR? Didn't they pay Torrey Smith a lot of money and wasn't he really not good? They just invested in 2 5 techs in back to back 1st rounds (Deforest Buckner & Arik Armstead), probably edge, so there Garrett would go unless Cleveland takes him #1. They may trade down to a sucker who wants a quarterback. I think Cousins gets tagged a 2nd time. Its just so damn hard to not see happen. Last year the browns picks were kind of stupid, but this year, they aren't trading down from 2 to 16 and picked Corey Coleman, who was solid.......just got hurt. This year they really cant fuck this up. If they want to see another year of Kessler, they have to draft Myles Garrett. They have need for an edge, and have Emmanuel Ogbah, just drafted. They also could use a safety, but not at #1, and there are lots of decent safeties towards the earlier rounds, like Peppers, Adams, Buddha Baker, Malik Hooker, Justin Evans, and Marcus Williams. If they love Trubisky, they take Trubisky. If they trade down or take anything besides those two, they fuck it up. He needs to be fucking fired if he's passing on one of the top QBs. His ass is on the hot seat, doubling down on Fox and co for 2017. Nate Peterman better prove me the fuck wrong......
I don't see how he could I saw nothing from Peterman other than a one read QB with no accuracy and no arm.
I find it interesting that you guys seem to be leaning towards the Bears spending #3 on a QB. Personally I really do not like any of these QBs enough to take at #3 overall. I just dont think they are good enough. If Myless Garret does somehow fall to us and we pass him up, I will be beyond furious. He is clearly the best player in the draft, and is a must draft if he makes it to us. Jonathon Allen is not a sexy pick but If we pass on him in favor of a QB, again I would be pretty darn upset. If those two are gone than it gets more interesting. Only then do I think you can begin the argument for snagging a QB. Personally the only one I would want this high is Deshaun Watson. I dont think Kizer/Trubisky have shown nearly enough on tape to warrant the #3 overall pick. I understand QB is the most important position in team sports, but developing a QB is much easier if the team around them isn't shit. I'd much rather make our team less shit by taking a more sure fire guy than Kizer/Trubsiky Personally I think with our high pick in the 2nd round, if we are so inclined we can either take a QB there or trade up back into the first round to grab Watson/Kizer/Trubisky in the late 20s. If Garrett/Allen are 1/2, i definitely still think there are other options. Say whatever you want, but this is a pretty darn good year to trade down. I think the Bears could do very well in trading down a fair bit (if anyone is interested) and drafting one of the safeties in Adams/Hooker/Peppers, and then using that draft capital to draft back up into the first round and draft a QB. That would be pretty ideal IMO.
John Fox and the bears coaching finds a way to lose again in the Senior Bowl......some of my takeaways. 1) People were gushing over Cal's QB Davis Webb's 11-16 day with 165 yards and a TD. I'm not. The 5 passes he missed, I was almost dumbfounded how he screwed up 4 of the passes. Twice he had WRs beating the DBs deep with separation and he just couldn't put the deep ball there. 2 other wildly inaccurate short throws, one that reminded me of Tim Tebow and one defensive break up. On top of that, he seems comfortable throwing in the middle of the field. His passes to the sidelines were not good, resulting in incompletions and short yardage. He didn't look comfortable on passes over 7 yards towards the sidelines. Here's PFF's breakdown of Webb, not sure going 1-5 passing deep right earns your a 99 grade.....but whatever. Via profootballfocus 2) Nate Peterman from Pitt for the North (Bears staff) had a nice last drive that came up short. 16-23 with a TD and 153 yards. His last pass was intercepted and the South won. Sounds like a future bear already. One thing I did like was when he was blitzed/under pressure, he made a pair of great throws. Here's Peterman's stats via profootballfocus: 3) Every other quarterback sucked. Silo Liufau and CJ Betheard only played 17 snaps combined. Antonio Pipkin and Josh Dobbs threw INTs quickly and didn't see the field much after. 4) Kareem Hunt, Toledo's RB stole the show for me. Its just a damn shame the bears don't need a running back as a priority at the moment. His big bulky, awkward power running reminds me of David Johnson, Arizona's RB from Northern Iowa. Playing at a smaller, crappy school gets you overlooked, but a good RB coach and this kid could be a top back in the NFL. 5) Some of the Tackles were okay, but the interior OLine got the headlines. This is shaping up to be a pretty lack-lusting tackle draft class. But if we need guards, there's about 5 that looked outstanding this game. Temple's Dion Dawkins moved inside and dominated Auburn's Montravius Adams and UCLA's Eddie Vanderdoes. Both Adams and Vanderdoes are 2-3 round specs. But Zach Banner, Adam Bisnowatty, Connor McDermott, and Justin Senior all looked bland. Taylor Moton had some really good reps, but he had some bad ones too. More good than bad, but again--tackle class just not looking like it has any immediate starters after Cam Robinson/Anthony Garcia/Ramsey Ramsczyk. 6) Lorenzo Jerome looked like a ball hawk at safety. 2 INTs, 3 pass break ups for the St. Francis University product. UConn's S Obi Melifonwu looked pretty damn good too at safety. 7) East Carolina's WR Zay Jones has some hands. Later, Bellamy. Cooper Kupp, someone everybody kept saying "keep your eyes on this guy" was nowhere to be found. Josh Reynolds from Texas AM impressed some with his 6 catches for 100 yards and a TD, but everytime that guy got hit, he went down. There's just something I don't trust about that when a 6'4, 200 lb WR gets hit by a 5'11 safety and he goes right down. Amarah Darboh from Michigan runs some Reggie Wayne type precision-routes. He made DBs miss and guess wrong with some great moves/double-moves. He also is probably the best blocking WR in this draft. If only he had Reggie Wayne's hands...... 8) Tanoh Kpassagnon, 5 tech from Villanova looked like the only unstoppable defensive linemen this game. He put on a Dee Ford type-performance. 7th rounder you find yourself going "who?" before the senior bowl, great game, and if everything goes right, he'll find himself at the end of the 1st round with you still going "no, seriously--who?". 9) Bucknell's Julien Davenport, LT starter has the perfect size, arm length, strength, and intelligence to be a bookend LT for somebody. He's going to need a lot of work on his feet and with overpowering bull-rushers. 10) OJ Howard solidified his top 20 pick status. The rest of the tight ends were quiet, which kind of bums me out because I wanted to see a lot from Ole Miss' Evan Engram.
I actually started watching a little more film on him after the game. He has everything you want in terms of size, arm strength and quick release. I'm not exactly gushing over him but thought he came across as the only NFL capable QB in that game. Your knock on him was the deep passes but the one TD he had in dropped in the bucket perfectly. One thing I hate is when these QB's take the easy, safe throws in these games. He didn't do that. Granted he missed some of them but liked that he was willing to take chances down the field. He is a guy I haven't seen play much but will definitely watch more now that I saw him play in this game. He has started a lot of games in college although that might be a knock as well because of the system he played in. Going to give him a closer look because I'm definitely looking for more hope for this position in this draft. The Bears gave this guy a lot of playing time in this game, probably because the other two were a complete waste of a roster spot and weren't worth wasting the snaps. I was not impressed and came out of this game liking him less than I already did. Mediocre arm strength, average size and seemed to hold the ball to long at times. I'll pass, not seeing much here with this guy. He missed a WR, Zay Jones in the endzone twice and he was wide open. One time Jones made a spectacular catch but could only get one foot in bounds because he threw the ball so high. The other time Jones was open and he airmailed it about about 5 yards over his head. So the Int's and lack of redzone production make him a prime candidate to be a Bears QB, but I'm hoping for something different this time. Someone is going to get one heck of a player with this guy. He was very impressive. He made some plays, really stood out in this game against big time talent and that is always a good thing for a small school guy. Going to watch where he goes, hopefully it is not to the NFC north eventhough all 3 of our rivals need RB's. Funny how we both saw a lot of the same things. Jerome did play well and love his instincts for getting to the ball, something we haven't seen from Bears safety's in a long time. Melifonwu was one of my favorites coming out of this game. Need to watch more on him because i love his size and how he was all over the field. Think he is going to be a very good player at the next level. Jones was impressive, ran some good routes and has tremendous athleticism. Curious to see his 40 time because they say he doesn't have great speed but love his instincts to get the ball and ability to catch the ball. He should have had 3 TD's in this game but Peterman missed him twice, another great TD catch was called back because of a penalty and he did finally get one late in the game. That is doing something, like this guy as someone to watch in the middle rounds. Kupp must have put on a show during the week because they were raving about him but didn't see much in the game. Reynolds had some good catches but looked really skinny out there and like you said, seemed very easy to knock down. Yeah, I was hoping maybe Howard would slip into the second round but if he runs a 4.6 as predicted, no way he gets out of the first. I like Evan Engram, saw him play a lot in the SEC games I watched. Wanted to see more from him in this game but didn't seem to get the opportunities. Great receiving TE but will need to work on his run blocking. See someone who could be similar to Greg Olsen where he is a threat in the passing game while he learns how to be a good run blocker. Great athlete, especially at the TE position. Another guy they were absolutely raving about was Hassan Reddick from Temple. I believe he played in a 4-3 at Temple and had his hand on the ground but showed enough athleticism to play coverage this week both at the inside and outside LB positions. He knows how to rush the passer so if he can develop other parts of his game, I can see why he will become a commodity. This guy has Patriots/Belicheck guy written all over him, the type of guy he loves.
Slow morning this Superbowl Sunday....... But according to Walterfootball, the bears met with Chris Wormley, 5 tech from Michigan (2-4 rounder right now) and RB Jamaal Adams from Brigham Young. The Trib reports that Notre Dame 5 tech Isaac Rochell also met with the bears. CBS Chicago said Wormley is scheduled to come to Chicago for a private workout. Wormley gets overlooked because of Taco Charlton, the premier edge rusher on Michigan (and Peppers, the safety). He's very underrated for a 5 technique. 6'6, 305 lbs. While I'm certain Jonathan Allen will be met and brought in, it certainly seems the bears definitely look at the draft for a 5 tech. No Dontari Poe it seems.....otherwise there isn't much available on the free agency side. Rochell is a mid to late rounder right now, better run stopper than pass rusher whereas Wormley is a 2 way run/pass defender.
Jamal Adams? If the Bears draft another RB within the first 5 rounds I will be seriously pissed. This position is becoming like Safety used to be where they draft one every year. Howard's the guy, lets move on. Patg, you hear anything about Allen possibly having an issue with his shoulder? That normally wouldn't be a big thing but it seems to be have been kept pretty quiet up until this point which always makes me wonder why. Something to watch I guess in the pre-draft process. I never have a problem with the Bears looking at any defensive lineman or offensive lineman, bring it on, just don't spend too much time talking to RB's.
Haven't heard much about the shoulder, but the lackluster NC game cooled a lot of talk on him. He had shoulder surgery before the 2016 season started, and I would say its safe to assume it didn't hinder him. I'm watching the superbowl as I type this, and I think Pace is trying to cycle RBs or try to get something similar to New England; or have your primary guy in Howard/Blount, but also have 'super backs' or do-it-all guys who make a difference, like Gray, like James White, like Dion Lewis who can come in for a play or series and open up your playbook more. Its smart in theory, you preserve your premier back while confusing defenses, causing them to change up--giving your team the advantage--in theory. The problem with that is Dowell Loggains........I have zero faith he can diversify his playbook to pull something like that off. If he can.....we haven't seen it. Jeremy Langford sucked, but Kadeem Carey had some stuff I liked......I think he can be one of those help backs, just never got the chance to. RB is far from a priority, but I certainly think they could stand to upgrade Jeremy Langford......
Should have been the fall guy for this season, would have shown an more of awareness on Fox's part. I have zero faith in him to pull off anything, think he is trying to run Gase's offense but he isn't Gase. This offense was garbage this season in the redzone which is where it matters and where you make your money as an OC. A lot of bend but don't break defenses where you can rack up yard but if you can't score TD's, you end up going 3-13 and being in the bottom 5 in average points per game. Wasn't that how we ended up with Langford who was supposed to upgrade Kadeem Carey? He hit the lottery with Howard, look for an upgrade to Langford in free agency, it won't be hard. Amazing that the Bears can draft an RB within the first 5 rounds 3 years in a row but a QB was nowhere to be found. Did this with Safety as well for years and continue to do it (I think it is now 10 of the last 11 years) and STILL have Safety as a need. Now some of you are trying to convince me that we are better off using the 3rd pick on a Safety than a QB. Top 10 of the draft I would only ever draft QB, O-Line, D-Line and LB's. If none of those are worth taking in the top 10 when you get your chance to pick, trade down.
So the bears have been busy at the combine, meeting with Peterman, Trubisky, Kizer, Kaaya, Mahomes, and also Clemson WR Mike Williams in terms of big names they've had in personal meetings. A couple other small school RBs and DBs too. Deshaun Watson is not a quarterback they've personally met with. Which leads me to have a couple of follow up questions. Like does Pace not plan on this kid? Does he not want to draft him? Is he going to fly the kid first class to Chicago to meet at Halas Hall, or will he go to Clemson for his pro day? And why Mike Williams? Is this a formality to meet with him because he's going to go likely top 7? Or because Pace is considering taking a WR at #3? The Sun Times is reporting that over the weekend after meeting with Mahomes, the bears have come to like him a lot more, and he interviewed quite well. And Mike Mayock--the idiot he is--felt the need to say: ??He?s different,? He?s a gunslinger. He?s got an innate feel for the game. The more I look at him, the more I?m pushing him higher and closer to that first-round conversation." http://walterfootball.com/ProspectMeetings/ByTeam http://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/bears-out-to-see-if-patrick-mahomes-is-the-next-jay-cutler/
You nailed my thought hopeful thought process on the head. They are trying to throw other teams off the scent of what they may do or they wanted to get a more in depth interview than they would get at the combine when they fly him in for an individual workout. Watson is too talented to just overlook. Pace was all about Mariota when he came out and Watson is very similar to him so I would doubt he would just pass him over without serious consideration. Then again I didn't think he would be stupid enough to draft a project WR in the top 10 as his first pick so it wouldn't surprise me. Pace hasn't earned much benefit of the doubt but his draft picks, outside of the Kevin White disaster and him never drafting a QB, have been pretty solid. I guess we will see more as the individual meetings start coming down over the next few weeks but who knows. They didn't meet with any defensive players either and obviously that is where the talent lies in the top half of this draft.
