Official 2014 NFL Draft Thread - Quarterbacks

Yes Manziel has scheduled his own personal work out. That is why I ask the question why not at the combine or his A&M's pro day? Why does his work out have to be away from everyone else in and environment that he is in control of?

To me there are questions that could be better answered in a venue where he is stacked up against his competition rather than in a private workout.

 

Reports are he is working with a professional QB coach to learn better footwork. IF he shows progress in that aspect compared to game film, then it could vault him to #1 overall....Because of this, he stayed away from ProBowl and Super Bowl activities that high draft prospects are invited to attend. I don't know...I just think he is taking this VERY serious and is looking to succeed at a high level...

As said above, it has become commonplace for the top QBs not to throw at the combine with receivers they don't know. It can be very difficult to get a rythym throwing to a player without knowing his route running ability. Which in turn shows bad form...something you won't have to contend with while practicing every day with your teammates. The real question in my mind is why schedule the private workout one week after A&M? Will he really get that much better with only 7 days extra work? The draft isn't until May this year, so why not work till the end of April to hone his new skills?

Don't get me wrong, I love competition and seeing these guys side by side ensures that...however, the private workout would better express what he has learned this offseason in comparison to what he would do practicing with his teammates and executing a gameplan. That is probably more important than what would be seen at the combine.

A gameplan is scripted same as this workout will be...


BTW, after reports that he would throw, it is now being reported Bortles will not throw at the combine either and Carr has already hinted he will not...

Seems Teddy Bridgewater is the only one with something to lose that actually has the balls to do it...until he hears no one else is...stay tuned

 

I get that it has become common for Qb's not to throw at the combine. I don't like it and think its a cop-out. I'd rather see them go through all the drills and if they make a few mistakes fine. None of them are perfect.

I guess for me if I'm the guy trying to decide if one of these guys is the future of my franchise at QB I want to see how they stack up side by side facing the exact same adversity as the other. I get that throwing at the combine to guys you haven't played with is a supposed disadvantage. To me its a more level playing field and a better test of what these guys have done to get better since their college seasons have ended. If they put the ball in the WR hands and the WR doesn't catch it, that is not on the QB.

They still have their college pro days to work out the kinks and show if they can correct them.

 

Don't get me wrong, I would prefer they participate, but like the pro scouts, I have resolved to the fact they cannot be coerced into participating and in most cases will not. Hence, if my biggest need is QB, I will use what ever means at my disposal to evaluate and get over the fact I won't see them throw at the combine.

Not throwing at the combine, which has become commonplace, to me is no longer a red flag.



As for putting it in the receivers hands and not catching it...that is not the issue at all...

It is the fact they don't know the receivers tendencies which makes it very difficult to put it in their hands since they don't know 48 different receivers tendencies. It is much easier to acclimate with 5-6 teammates in practice and learn to anticipate where they will be on a certain route...It takes time and repetition.

At the combine, you simply don't know where a guy will be and in turn, even though the experts already know this, the human brain still interprets this as the QB not being good enough to put it where the receiver can catch it. I want to see him and all others run the non throwing drills...those are the true measurables. "missing" a receiver in this situation isn't necessarily a measurable but can be negatively perceived as one.

 

I'm starting to feel really badly for Johnny Football.

If we was 2" taller and could throw a football through the uprights from mid-field on his knees, he'd be considered the best QB prospect to come around in the past 40 years. The discomfort level we see with him is astounding, considering how impressive he was in his time in college. Is it because people still think QBs need to be 6'5" and 230 with a Howitzer? Look at the QBs drafted since 2000 and beyond!

All he did was take the SEC (the toughest, most NFL-ready division in college) by storm as a freshman and changed the history books by becoming the first freshman to win the Heisman trophy. How did he follow that up? By improving his passing statistics in *every* single category and showing a maturity by using his incredibly mobility as an escape tool and not a run-first approach.

Since then, he has been hounded -- especially by the posters here, for some reason -- despite assuming a laser-like focus on improving himself professionally. He's working out non-stop and working on his technique with a well-respected QB coach. He's turned off his Twitter account, he's not going out to the nightclubs, he's not making waves -- he's focusing on his craft.

Why is he a "major red flag risk" with "loads of character concerns" and "barely worth a first round pick"?

 

Physical size is not that big of a deal to me. He is very athletic and that is a plus. No he doesn't have a "big" arm, so the question is, IS his arm strength good enough to make all the throws in the hostile elements late in the season in the AFCN?

As for character concerns I think we all know what issues he's had. Maybe he's grown up maybe he hasn't.

My biggest are these things...

• Falls away rather than stepping into his throws, passes lack consistent accuracy.[/*]
• Willing to throw passes late and over the middle, and relies on his wideouts to make plays in jump-ball situations.[/*]
• Doesn't appear to handle pressure well when in the pocket, lacks pocket discipline. Doesn?t appear to go through his progressions fully, takes off running despite having open receivers.[/*]

I get that he appears to be doing all the right things at this point. I still would prefer to see how he stacks up side by side with the other QB's in the draft.

I would like to see him and the other QB's step up to the plate and show that competitive fire. Say to the world that no matter what the challenge is, no matter the adversity, less than ideal conditions, I will face I'm willing to face it, and I will conquer.

 

OK, let's get to the nitty gritty...

Does it bother you that:

Sammy Watkins won't have Joe Haden lining up across from him to see how he gets off the line and run routes in traffic

Jadeveon Clowney won't have Joe Thomas lined up across from him to see how he handles a moving target designed to stop him from doing what he is drafted to do?

Jake Matthews won't have JJ Watt lined up across from him trying to make him look like a fool?

_____________________________________

I realize a QBs job is to throw the ball. However, they are set up to fail in this environment.

Set up tires to throw through, carts moving on a straight line across the field to "time" a throw, or any other drill that can easily measure a certain throwing aspect and I am 100% certain, you would see more QBs participate fully.


No other position has to take a variable (48 different receivers tendencies) and showcase their "abilities" without ever stepping onto the field with that variable.

Every other position has set drills that can be practiced for months in advance.

No one can simulate that single variable a QB faces in that environment.


Sorry, that is how I see this one insignificant aspect of the combine...

 

I know that the hype is for Bortles to go to Houston, but I would not be surprised if the Texans snag Manziel.

O'Brien would get to work with what is arguably the most talented QB in the draft and the stadium would overflow from ticket sales to see 'Johnny Football'.

I have yet to think of a downside for Houston to gamble on Manziel at the top of the draft considering the other top 3 prospects that are available at the position, combined with the idea that Clowney will be viewed as not worth selecting with the first overall pick, unless his combine (interview portion) reflects a different player than what was showcased last season.

Unless Oakland trades up with St. Louis you could actually end up seeing Bridgewater available at the 4 spot.

 

I get that the added variables of using live WR for the QB's throwing drills adds a level of difficulty and uncertainty.

Insignificant as it may be. I feel that a QB willing to take that challenge gains a slight advantage over those who don't. True a QB prospect could appear to stink it up due to the differences in how 48 different WR run the same routes. Yet I also feel that a QB who lites it up and shines under such conditions gains more of an advantage.

IMHO QB's have more to gain than they could lose by throwing at the combine.

 

Blake Bortles also lacks elite arm strength. Johnny Manziel has shown the ability to make throws at every level and actually (by your own statistics, I believe) was shown to have the best down-field arm of all the QBs in this class.

Bortles played in Orlando, FL. Manziel in College Station, TX. Are either of those places renowned for "hostile elements"?

Lastly, our new HC -- Mike Pettine -- stressed the importance of being able to run, not throw, the ball when the mercury drops late in the season.

Manziel has been seen partying in night clubs outside of the football season and was rumored to have signed autographs for money, in direct violation of NCAA rules. Fine.

• Reggie Bush was paid by his school $350,000 and his family given a house -- rent free -- along with a Cadillac Escalade.[/*]

• Cam Newton's father was paid $250,000 through his local church for Cam's commitment to attend Auburn.[/*]

• Oregon has a "trainer" on personal retainer to funnel prospective committments to their school -- T.J. Ward is an Oregon alum and was there when Chip Kelly was paying for this scheme.[/*]

• Carlos Hyde, whom many poster on here would love to see in orange and brown was arrested for domestic violence.[/*]

• Josh Gordon, whom everyone loves now, is on the third-strike of the drug policy in the NFL and had to transfer to two separate colleges due to issues with drug abuse.[/*]

I could go on, but I've already destroyed the point. Manziel is a choir boy next to these guys.

All very coachable flaws. How about your boy, Blake?

• Ball placement has room for improvement and his touch is undeveloped.[/*]

• Throwing mechanics have room for refinement.[/*]

• Doesn't always step into his throws and will sometimes deliver with his momentum falling away from his target.[/*]

• Needs to learn how to better use his eyes to hold defenders - will too often lead defensive backs to the intended target. Not afraid to take chances, but too many risky throws.[/*]

• Room to improve his spatial awareness from inside the pocket. Deep accuracy is a work-in-progress. Ball security when scrambling has room for improvement.[/*]

Brandon Weeden, much?

It's a business, too. Manziel has a very good shot at being the #1 overall pick. If he participates in a Combine drill with unfamiliar receivers and struggles due to it, he stands to lose millions of dollars by sliding even a few more picks.

This is a non-starter.

The Browns will work him out individually. He's going to throw at his own event, which the Browns will attend. They will take the QB coach and coordinator to meet him at the Combine and walk him through progression reads. I don't need to see him throw in spandex to another guy in spandex to know he can make throws on Sundays.

 

I actually think it's a good chance -- especially now -- that Brian Hoyer is starting for Bill O'Brien this season.

Bill O'Brien is a big supporter of Hoyer and knows him from his time in New England. Hoyer's biggest proponent -- Mike Lombardi -- was shown the door. The rumor that the Browns "loved" Johnny Football should really have been titled "Jimmy Haslam loves Johnny Football".

If the past 24 months have told us anything, it's that Jimmy Haslam gets what Jimmy Haslam wants.

1. Browns trade #4, #26 and Brian Hoyer to Houston for #1 overall.

2. Browns take Johnny Football with #1 overall pick.

3. Houston takes Jake Matthews at #4 and Zach Mettenberger at #26.

 

My position on this is that the NFL (their future employer) should set the standard for QB participation at the combine not the individual Quarterbacks. If QB's were REQUIRED to participate in the passing drills at the combine, then wouldn't ALL participants be interviewing under the same set of variables?

I can think of no other interview process on the planet where the Interviewee gets to set the standard under which the Interviewer must operate. Imagine for a second that a candidate for a job tells the prospective employer "Instead of me just sitting here answering your questions, I would prefer to take you a tour of my current job site and you can observe all the good things I can do (and talk to a whole bunch of my co-workers that I hand picked for you to talk to)."

The whole combine is bass ackwards when it comes to QB's.

 

Blame the media.

Back in the "good old days" before this was such a media circus, it probably meant a lot more. Today, it's just for rating for the NFL Network.

The real work is done by the scouts / coaches when players are worked out individually by the team.

 

I see where you are going, and you have you have dotted the 'I's' and crossed the 'T's' but I have a hard time getting on board with this one.

Would it make sense for Houston is the main question I have.

It could definitely make sense for Cleveland if they are willing to spend the picks/player to grab the number one overall pick.

But for Houston, I'm not so sure that works.

First, do they need to upgrade on the line bad enough to pass on a potential franchise signal caller to go after Matthews? I would say no considering they have a 28 and a 26 year old starting at left and right tackle. Added to that is the idea that Brown at one point was considered a top 3 LT I have a difficult time envisioning the Texans going after a tackle that high in the draft.

They could use an upgrade over Newton at the position, but why bring in Hoyer to be your number 1 coming off of an injury with the ability to draft a QB with a higher ceiling by just using your pick?

Mettenberger is nowhere near the talent level of the top 3 guys in this class IMO so for the Texans they would be giving up on a potential face of the franchise to go after a starting RT and a developmental prospect at QB.

Is your trade impossible? Not at all, but I think it is counter productive for a new regime and a new HC who will be attached to his number one pick until the player retires or the coach is fired.

 

Not only that, it isn't just QBs...

Any player with a "fast track" (see; their own people "measuring" and "timing" at their home facility) has the option of not running or participating in any drill at the combine they think they can perform better at their pro day.

You will see some guys who can't deal with pressure decide not to lift in front of a room full of their peers, but instead at their home gym with only a small number of people in there...

It goes on and on....

 

I have to somewhat disagree here, Sammy. The REAL WORK is done by the scouts that are watching, first hand, during actual games. Anything that happens after that (Coaches film review, scouting report reviews by coaches, etc) is totally dependent upon the quality of the scouts that are out there watching.

 

Tim; I have my doubts that it does or will make sense for the Texans to pass on Manziel...

This article, which I am afraid won't link up, so I am posting directly in here from the Houston Chronicle outlines why they, and all of the doubter Browns fans should take him very serious!


Enjoy!!

By John McClain

February 14, 2014 | Updated: February 14, 2014 11:47am

SAN DIEGO ? A wicked wind whips the waves onto an almost-deserted Mission Beach still shrouded by the early-morning fog. It's 55 degrees on the shore but colder in the Pacific Ocean when Johnny Manziel wades into waist-deep water.

It's the beginning of another nine-hour day for Manziel, working with his quarterback guru, George Whitfield Jr. for a third consecutive year. Manziel has a bigger purpose this year. He wants to send a message to the NFL, in particular, the Texans, who have the first overall pick in the May draft.

Manziel ? flamboyant on and off the field ? is determined to show the Texans he's more than just a Heisman Trophy winner with a trademark nickname and more than a prospect whose natural ability can border on brilliance. He wants to demonstrate a laser-like focus and an endless drive for perfection.

Perhaps even more important, Johnny Manziel wants to distance himself from Johnny Football.

That is why he's in the cold ocean water with Whitfield shouting commands, looking more like he's training for the Navy SEALS than the NFL draft.

"I want them to say absolutely, without a doubt, with 100 percent certainty, that I'm who they want," Manziel says later to reporters from the Houston Chronicle and Fort Worth Star-Telegram who are watching his workouts with Whitfield.

"I want everybody from the janitor at Reliant Stadium to the front office executive assistant all the way up to (owner) Bob McNair to say, 'This kid is 100 percent, can't miss. This is who we want being the face of our program. We want the Texas kid staying in Texas and leading the Texans.'"

The "Texas kid" was born in Tyler, but he developed into a Friday night sensation at Kerrville Tivy. After a redshirt season with the Aggies, Manziel was catapulted into the national consciousness when he engineered an upset victory at No. 1 ranked Alabama and became the first freshman in NCAA history to win the Heisman Trophy in 2012.

Manziel hasn't tried to hide his ambition to play for the Texans, and he has a warning if they pass him up and he falls to a team like Jacksonville, an AFC South rival with the third overall pick and a desperate need for a quarterback.

"It would be the worst decision they've ever made," he says, smiling. "I'd be in the same division playing against them twice a year. Sorry, but you just turned that chip on my shoulder from a Frito into a Dorito."

Back in the ocean, waves are knocking Manziel off balance as he struggles to deliver passes to Whitfield, who says the quarterback has never worked harder. Manziel has a lot to prove to potential NFL employers that he's matured from his checkered past highlighted by social media mistakes, underage drinking and run-ins with the NCAA over his famous signature.

"I was a kid who made some goofball decisions," he says. "That's been part of my journey. Maybe it's part of the whole Johnny Football deal that I'm trying to get away from. I'm trying to show people I've grown up, and I've learned from my experiences. I feel like you're a stupid person if you continue to make the same wrong decisions.

"I don't want to hear, 'Oh, anybody in his situation would have been doing the same thing.' I'm 100 percent responsible for my actions."

To convince McNair, general manager Rick Smith and coach Bill O'Brien he's worth the top pick and is willing to undergo a life-altering metamorphosis, Manziel is determined to endure Whitfield's unorthodox training methods.

Whitfield, who says when Manziel is measured and weighed at the combine he'll be a solid 6-foot, 210 pounds, gets the quarterback out of the frigid water and has him put on a blindfold for a Zorro drill.

Whitfield stands behind the quarterback. Three of Whitfield's assistants are spread out on the beach 10 to 15 yards away. When Manziel drops back three steps, Whitfield points to a receiver, who claps three times. The ball comes out, and it's almost always on target.

Manziel later throws with one of Whitfield's assistants poking him with a broom. Whitfield has another drill in which Manziel gets bean bags thrown at him as he drops backs, plants and throws.

"When you show them what to do and explain why they're doing it, and then they play and see how much it helps, they come back and want to do more," Whitfield says as Manziel does agility drills in the sand. "They're always more attendant."

Whitfield has an impressive list of clients, including Ben Roethlisberger, Cam Newton and Andrew Luck. None has been with him longer than Manziel.

"Johnny's a hard worker, and he wants to learn," Whitfield says. "He's fluid, resourceful, smart.

"And everything matters to him."

* * *

Manziel slices his steak during dinner at an upscale San Diego restaurant with his agent Erik Burkhardt and attorney Brad Beckworth.

Burkhardt of Select Sports Group, Beckworth and Maverick Carter of LRMR are part of Manziel's management team. They run interference for him off the field while Whitfield prepares him to excel on the next level.

Manziel's team makes sure he works nine hours a day, five days a week. On his two days off from training, he usually takes care of business. One day, he heads to Portland to meet with Nike. Another day, it's with Under Armour.

When Manziel came to Houston for a recent charity event on an off day, he brought along his trainer so he didn't miss a workout.

"People can call me crazy, and it's not cockiness (but), I'm going to put myself in (position) to win the Super Bowl every single year," he says. "A 5-10 guy (Seattle quarterback Russell Wilson) just won the Super Bowl in his second year in the NFL. That's unreal. I want to be the first rookie to win the Super Bowl."

And he would love to win a Super Bowl with the Texans.

"They're a team I've watched every year since I was a kid," he says. "I want to be the No. 1 pick. It's something I've dreamed about. With the pieces they already have in place, I could fit in.

"I'm a Texas kid. The state means a lot to me."

Manziel is so sincere, so believable, that no one at his table disputes his notion that he could help the Texans win the Super Bowl next season.

"Absolutely," he says. "If that's the situation, I'm going to go in there and be the first guy learning with Bill O'Brien. The best thing about me over the past couple of years is I've had great relationships with my position coaches and with my head coach."

Manziel knows there's a chance the Texans will pass him up in the draft.

Like the Texans and Jaguars, Cleveland also needs a quarterback, and the Browns have the fourth overall pick.

"If something happens, and it's the Cleveland Browns, I'm going to pour my heart out for the Dawg Pound and try to win a Super Bowl for Cleveland," he says. "I don't care if they've had 20 starting quarterbacks since 1999. I'm going to be the 21st and the guy that brought them the Super Bowl."

* * *

Manziel is excited to be interviewed at this week's scouting combine in Indianapolis.

"I want them to know who I really am," he says. "I'm going to try to let people know who I really am deep down in my core and that I'm not the guy who does whatever is portrayed on the Internet."

He wants them to explain to them the difference between Johnny Manziel and Johnny Football.

"Johnny Football is the stuff you see on TMZ," he says. "There's part of that folktale that goes along with it and tries to twist me into somebody I'm not all the time. I feel like now there's kind of like this frozen food package ? a prewrapped, precooked package of who I am.

"Johnny Manziel is the guy that -- whether it's Houston, Jacksonville, Cleveland or Oakland ? you'll have to drag off that field before I stop playing for those guys. Those are my teammates. Those are my brothers from now on. I'm going to fight until there's no time left on the clock. That's Johnny Manziel.

"Football and family will always be the most important things in my life. The main thing for me is to play the game with a certain type of passion and a certain type of respect that football deserves. It's a humbling game. It can come and go at the drop of a hat."

Manziel worked out in San Diego and passed up a $350,000 guarantee to promote a product on Radio Row at the Super Bowl earlier this month.

"It's not about the money to me," he says. "I don't even know what the monetary value of the first 10 picks in the draft is.

"I'm in a position where I can play a game I love more than anything for a living. I'm ready to be in a position that no matter where I go in this draft that I'm there to win Super Bowls."

*****

Prolific Athletes, founded by Ryan Flaherty, is in Carlsbad, which borders San Diego to the north. Flaherty is Manziel's strength and speed coach. They spend hours together five days a week.

Manziel works out indoors with Flaherty. On this day, his weightlifting includes a 650-pound powerlift. He also throws indoors or outdoors with Whitfield.

"If you want to be the greatest, you have to prepare like it," Manziel says. "That's why I'm out here trying to be the best player possible. Whether it's in the film room or the weight room, there are days where it's hard, though, when it's a struggle."

A favorite part of Manziel's training is his film sessions with Kevin O'Connell, the former San Diego State quarterback who was New England's third-round pick in 2008 ? O'Brien's second season as a Patriots' assistant coach.

Manziel and O'Connell are in an office at Prolific Athletes watching film of the 2011 season when O'Brien was the Patriots' offensive coordinator and play-caller. They reached the Super Bowl and lost to the New York Giants.

"I get the best of both worlds -- to learn from one of the greatest (quarterbacks) of all time, and at the same time, see and learn what the coach I want to be playing for is doing in certain situations," Manziel says about Tom Brady and O'Brien.

At the scouting combine, Manziel will be among the prospects interviewed by O'Brien.

"In Indianapolis," Manziel says, "I want to be able to sit there and him draw a play on the board and be like, 'Coach, that was your third-and-12 play from the Super Bowl. You called that on the right hash from the 42-yard line driving in to score to win the game.'

"I want to blow his lid off when I'm in that situation."

During an hour-long film session, Manziel takes notes and answers O'Connell's questions. He's inquisitive and isn't shy about making observations or asking questions.

O'Connell mentions the possibility of Manziel being drafted by O'Brien.

"Johnny will have to convince Bill that he can be his guy, and he can build his team around," O'Connell says after the session ends. "I think he fits like a glove in that offense as long as he understands protections and can get the ball to his playmakers and not always have to be the playmaker.

"Johnny knows that even if you have all the talent in the world when you come into the NFL, you've got to learn the NFL game. This is the Heisman Trophy winner, and he knows he doesn't have all the answers. Johnny's excited to show them he has the capacity to learn."

Listening to O'Connell discuss O'Brien and Manziel, it's clear that he believes they have similar characteristics that have made them successful.

"Bill is extremely competitive, and he's extremely smart," O'Connell says. "I think he's going to be able to see all the things that we've been able to see over the course of the years with Johnny ? the playmaking ability, the charisma, the guy that can make everybody on the field better.

"But he's also, hopefully, going to learn the side of Johnny that I've gotten to learn. The ability to want to learn and embrace and take an offense to its maximize level by learning every aspect of it."

* * *

Manziel grins and sounds almost embarrassed when he's asked about all the celebrities he's met through that TMZ lifestyle - stars from the entertainment, sports and business worlds.

LeBron James, Drake, Justin Timberlake, Vince Vaughan and Nolan Ryan are just a few of those who impressed him.

He's eager to add two more to his list.

"Bob McNair and Bill O'Brien," he says with a loud laugh

 

A sadistic that I believe to be skewed in his favor due to Mike Evans ability to go get the ball and save Johnny's arse from throwing an INT. How many of those "hail mary's" does he get away with at the next level?

:-*

What you said about JF...All coachable flaws.

And I'm sure we all have a similar list for each QB on the list.

With the roookie wage scale in place the $$ difference between #1 and #4 isn't as big as it used to be.

 

Hmm, not so much Teddy Bridgewater....

The one thing about Manziel over Teddy is his fire on the field...I like that in the leader of a football team.

 

A fair question.

And that's a valid point. You could sub in Anthony Barr, Sammy Watkins, possibly Jadeveon Clowney still at #4.

My thinking is that Houston isn't as far removed from Playoff contention as Cleveland is. Do you, as a regime, put the keys to the castle in the hands of a boom / bust player like Manziel (or any of the rookie QBs, honestly) or do you go with a proven commodity (at least to the new HC) in a veteran like Hoyer who can steer the ship while you develop your guy?

It's a foregone conclusion Matt Schaub is out, but who's going to fill in for the team at QB? They either start a rookie, which is risky for them, or they go with a veteran -- whom they do not currently have.