Official 2014 NFL Draft Thread - Quarterbacks

Ha you beat me to it Lym...


Just knew Irish couldn't stay away for too long...

There's two sides of the JF coin...

 

For those who are old school

Spoiler

For Irish, SAS and all the other JF cool-aid drinkers

Spoiler

 

you are missing the entire point of the post.

If you want to debate about college numbers translating we can go all day...but it all of a sudden becomes "you cant compare him to Tebow/McCoy/Young/Carr etc, etc, ad nauseum".

My point is when the talent level he faces goes up his abilities go down. You can not extrapolate numbers going from college to pro...that argument is ludicrous.

Lets say you do...and Johnny does get you 29 TDs vs 20 Ints and 4600yds.

Hoyers stats extrapolated (using 2 full pro games) are 80 Tds to 48 Ints with 4720 yds.

thats a 5/3 ratio vs 3/2.

Its not the most logical to compare these numbers. The point is Hoyer has to stay healthy and be consistent. Manziel would face the same issues.

The guy is electrifying. I am not taking that away from him. He could be good, but he does not step in right away and start over Hoyer. He could do it in Jacksonville, easily. Minnesota..good luck, theyre playing outside for 2 years and you will have a Johnsicle under center. If he were to slide i would take him later...just not at 4.

Do I have the magic pick? no. Im thinking we are going to try and slide back a few picks if Watkins is off the board and take a CB somewhere in the top 15.

But it all depends what the GM/scouts/coaches think about the players, not any of us. If they think drafting a future tackle who is perhaps the best overall player fits into what seems to be a 2 year plan then so be it. If they think adding another OLB will work with this attacking/multifront defense...so be it.

Any of the positions besides the specific QBs in this draft should end up being starters for us..T, WR, DE, CB.

We seem to be on a 2 yr plan with all of our signings so i dont see us taking a guy whos probably not going to start immediately at 4. Thats just me. You can believe what you want and ill believe what I want.

 

Yo Lym;

How would you like the draft to fall like this?

The MMQB Mock Draft:

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/05/06/nfl-mock-draft-peter-king-khalil-mack-houston-texans/

*DRINK*

 

I'd love it! But, unfortunately, it ain't gonna happen that way. This IS Peter King after all. *SORRY*

 

Only one problem Crex...Manziel SPANKED the hell out of Alabama...However, Alabama spanked the hell out of A&M's defense...At the end of the day, if Manziel had any semblence of a defense he would have lost 1 game based on his performance. One game in two full seasons of starting, LSU is the only one that had a legitimate answer to him at the QB position.

I didn't bring the numbers in, you did...

To say a guys stats fall off when he faces the top defenses in the country, well...Really, that is a real shocker..

You expect them to be better? So the 500 yard games, 5 TD games, should come against teams that usually give up 300 yards TOTAL and 2 TDs total per game?

Your arguments are meritless...

OF COURSE, the numbers will decline. I don't really expect Manziel to have 7,000 yards and 78 TDs per season in the NFL...But I will take 3,500 passing, 30 TDs passing and add in another 150 yards rushing with another 5 TDs rushing...That would put him in the top 5 QBs every single season and you know what, YOU and every other fan on these boards would LOVE HIM FOR IT...You may even end up loving him more than Bernie himself.

Sorry, I don't buy this either, you either like him of you don't...The he is not a first round QB argument you have been trying to make for a month doesn't change when that pick is #26 instead of #4...You either think he can do it or you don't...

Exactly, there is no magic pick...

But, when you take the upside presented to you...or imho anyway, Johnny Manziel stands to rise this team higher than any other prospect in this draft. That is what I am banking on, what can he POSSIBLY do for the Browns. At the end of the day, we could make 3 picks in the first 5 and miss on all 3...BUT if we hit on one, which one is going to do the most? I will answer every single time Manziel...If all four in Clowney, Watkins, Manziel and Robinson become All Pro players, which one do you want? Manziel every time...If you get an option at an All Pro player, you want the QB, because he is the one that will elevate the team the furthest...

2014 All Pros:
Offense
1st team; 2nd team;
QB
Peyton Manning(Super Bowl) none
RB
LeSean McCoy(one and done playoff) Adrian Peterson(no playoffs)
Jamaal Charles(one and done playoff) Eddie Lacy (one and done playoff)
FB
MikeTolsen (one and done playoff) Marcel Reese(no playoffs)
TE
Jimmy Graham (one playoff win) Vernon Davis(NFC Championship)
WR
Calvin Johnson(no playoffs) A.J. Green(one and done playoff)
Josh Gordon(no playoffs) Demaryius Thomas(Super Bowl, with All Pro Manning)
Antonio Brown(no playoffs)
OT
Joe Thomas(no playoffs) Tyron Smith(no playoffs)
Jason Peters(one and done playoff) Joe Staley(NFC Championships)
OG
Louis Vasquez(Super Bowl) Jahri Evans(one playoff win)
Evan Mathis(one and done playoff) Logan Mankins(one playoff win)
Josh Sitton(one and done playoff)
C
Ryan Kalil(one and done playoff) Alex Mack(no playoffs)

Defense
1st team; 2nd team;
DE
JJ Watt(no playoffs) Mario Williams(no playoffs)
Robert Quinn(no playoffs) Greg Hardy(one and done playoffs)
DT
Gerald McCoy(no playoffs) Dontari Poe(one and done playoff)
Ndamukong Suh(no playoffs) Muhammed Wilkerson(no playoffs)
Jurrell Casey(no playoffs)
Justin Smith(NFC Championship)
OLB
Robert Mathis(One playoff win) Tamba Hali(one and done playoff)
Lavonte David(no playoffs) Ahmad Brooks(NFC Championship)
ILB
Luke Kuechly(one and done playoff) Vontaze Burfict(one and done playoff)
NaVorro Bowman(NFC Championship)Karlos Dansby(no playoffs)
CB
Richard Sherman(SB Champs) Aquib Talib(One playoff win)
Patrick Peterson(no playoffs) Joe Haden(no playoffs)
Alterraun Verner(no playoffs)
S
Earl Thomas(SB Champs) Eric Weddle(one playoff win)
Eric Berry(one and done playoff) Kam Chancellor(SB Champs)
Jarius Byrd(no playoffs)
T.J. Ward(no playoffs)
Devin McCourty(one playoff win)
Antrel Rolle(no playoffs)

More to go on;
Past QB 1st team All Pros;
2012 Peyton Manning(one and done playoff), Tom Brady(AFC Championship)
2011 Aaron Rodgers(one and done playoff)
2010 Tom Brady(one and done playoffs)
2009 Peyton Manning(Super Bowl), Drew Brees(Super Bowl Champ)
2008 Peyton Manning(one and done playoff), Drew Brees(no playoffs)
2007 Tom Brady(Super Bowl)
2006 Drew Brees(NFC Championship)
2005 Peyton Manning(one and done playoffs)
2004 Peyton Manning(one and done playoffs)

Notice a trend? Only one QB in the last 10 years that was an All Pro didn't make the playoffs...

QB = Most important position on the football field

 

So now Manziel is already an All-Pro?

Really?

 

*WALL*

did you even read the post?

 

Yes. I did. Twice.

Yea, I get that you are including three others in this argument. My point is that NONE of these players are even remotely close to consideration as an All-Pro. (Pro-Bowl . . . Maybe).

 

Maybe you just can't get through a post that long without forgetting some of it.. *DONT_KNOW*

 

OMG LYM!!!!!!!!!!!

You say I am hard headed...

I am not making any of these players All Pro...This is a theoretical question...If given the choice at All Pro...Which position will improve your team more than any other...

I realize you don't WANT to answer the question, but no one can deny that QB will elevate this team more than any other position...and it isn't close..

 

My reading comprehension is just fine. As is my memory.

However, to be playing the IF "so and so" and "what's his name" become All-Pro's card is a tad premature. None of these guys has even stepped onto an NFL practice field.

 

No argument there, Irish. I just don't believe that Johnny Football is that much better (if at all) than any of the other three QB prospects. Granted . . . he has all the talent in the world. Never said he doesn't.

However . . . his style of play will not translate to the NFL and without that style of play - he's just another elite QB wannabe.

 

I've lost count on how many times you've said you were done trying to convince us of JF Irish... *DONT_KNOW*




And yet you just seem to keep coming back.... *SCRATCH* ;D


*DRINK*

 

You don't know that he won't succeed any more than I do that he will....

As are the others elite DE/OLB wannabes, elite OT wannabes, elite WR wannabes, elite whatever wannabes...

 

Yeah well, I am convinced Crex...more than any other player in this draft, I am convinced...

 

Okay, Irish.

I give up. UNCLE!

{taps you on the shoulder}

gets dragged off the mat.

 

Eli Manning (2007) post season stats:

Eli Manning (2011) post season stats:

Yeah... just like Eli Manning.

Or how about Flacco the year they won a Super Bowl?

What... 37 year old Ray Lewis won that game for them?

I don't expect any player to consistently play at 110% for a season. That's not going to happen. But for a franchise QB, getting hot at the right time (e.g., postseason) and dominating the competition is a big part of it.

Gets back to the whole Peyton vs. Eli thing. Peyton's the greatest QB to ever play the game, but his brother has been better in the post season and has more rings to show for it.

I saw in JFF a player who not only was the heart and soul of his team, not only out-played every competition he faced (save LSU) but who also was the spark that kept his team winning games and in some cases, brought them back from big deficits.

 

we can agree to disagree Irish.

If you like a guy in the first round you dont have to take him at the top of the draft. When the Browns like Mack, they traded down...twice i belive to take the future best center in the league. Should they have traded up and gone all in on him? no they evaluated his talent and took him based on his overall ability.

I brought numbers up..i never said his numbers were directly translating into the NFL. I was simply countering the statment that "he just knows how to win games". Going 2-6 in "big games" against top 15 teams doesnt look like "just winning". The purpose of the numbers is to show that he does have good numbers...but theyre inflated...with helium. Hes not going to get Sam Houston State and South Carolina State back to back in the pros. Even the worst D in the league will be more than he has ever seen.

This will be my last post for a while, have traveling to do for a funeral and im not bringing my laptop and hate coming here on my phone..so we will justhave to see how the draft pans out.

Have a great week guys.

 

What you fail to acknowledge is what the defense gave up in those games... ;D

Now, that you have looked that up again, was it Manziel "losing" those games? *SCRATCH*

Or did he do every thing in his power to win, but get let down by his defense? *DONT_KNOW*