Official 2014 NFL Draft Thread - Quarterbacks

*STOP*

Food for thought...

"I see bust written all over him," Hoge said. "Especially if he's drafted in the first round."

http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/4698/hoge-manziel-has-bust-written-all-over-him

 

That would be the very same Hoge that said he would rather have Michael Sam than Jadeveon Clowney. :-*

How many picks did Hoge make when he was a GM? Um, never was a GM..


Do you know who was for over 30 years? Gil Brandt...

Who does he have sitting at the top of his prospect list?

Johnny Football

So, if we shall keep quoting TV talking heads, how about we list their credentials before the quote so we know whether we want to continue reading.

 

Just sayin that Manziel is NOT a day one starter as a Rookie!


The only draft board that really matters is Ray Farmers.

 

Cleveland Browns' Ray Farmer is "comfortable'' heading into 2014 with Brian Hoyer as his starter, but stay tuned.. [:}

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/03/brian_hoyer_cleveland_browns.html

Browns owner Jimmy Haslam says, ?I don?t think we?re compelled to pick a quarterback at No. 4? *SCRATCH*

http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/b...pelled-to-pick-a-quarterback-at-no-4-1.475799

I dont think this is why they haven't attneded any pro days...

I do however like the approach they are taking so far. *YES*

 

Eww... really?

59.4% completion, 68.4 YPG, 6.4 YPA, 77.4 QB rating (Weeden - 71.8), 7 TDs to 6 INTs?

Brilliant smoke screen by Ray Farmer and/or I just lost any ounce of respect I might have had for him.

I don't think he's compelled to admit he orchestrated and covered up decades of corporate fraud, either... but that doesn't change the fact that he did it.

I can't expect Farmer & Co. to come out and say, "Yep... we're targeting Johnny Manziel at #4". They have to play the dumb games every franchise plays and thinks it's being smart about.

The fact of the matter is, almost any player in the Top 10 prospects is going to improve the Browns -- the question is which one is right and which one could have the largest potential impact.

NFL Draft Scout's Top 10 doesn't look all that dissimilar from my own:

*[X] - my rating

Bortles will torpedo this team. Drafting an offensive tackle will improve, but only marginally... and anyone else in that lineup is a big improvement talent-wise.

 

Cleveland Browns and NFL Links: Quarterback Derek Carr may have a future with Browns

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/03/cleveland_browns_and_nfl_links_24.html

Cleveland Browns coach Mike Pettine says it's possible he will start a rookie quarterback this year, and he's looking for that 'it factor'

? He called Fresno State quarterback Derek Carr "the best natural thrower in the draft'' and added, "don't bet against family history (referring to his big brother, David, a former first-round pick).''

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/03/cleveland_browns_mike_pettine_6.html


*SCRATCH*

 

15 minutes until Johnny Manziel's pro day begins and it was just announced he will be throwing in shoulder pads and helmet...No under wear workout for his kid...

Anyone interested now?

It will be live on NFL Network...

With this kind of hype, I don't think any owner will be able to pass on this kid. He is an ATM for his new organization. AND he can play football to boot.

I predict right now, Johnny Manziel will be the #1 overall draft pick in 2014.

 

:-*

Meh *NO*

Still a scripted workout and will not demonstrate whether or not he has learned how to read the defense and make the proper adjustments. Though it will likely demostrate if he has made strides in his basic techniques such as footwork and throwing motion.

The ability to sell tickets, jerseys, etc. doesn't translate into winning championships. See Tebow and RGIII

I'll trust Ray Farmer and Co. to make that call come draft day. *SHADES*

 

He shows that ability on game film which is what I based my analysis on him to begin with. The arguments have been what you said above, which will be shown here...

I do to, which is why I am confident either Bridgewater or Manziel will be the pick at #4 or higher (when they trade up)

*BRAVO*

 

if they trade up from 4 for any player they are total knuckleheads IMHO . see what falls to them . don't waste picks . there are no Andrew Lucks in this draft .

 

You're right...and next year and every year after next, you will be saying..."There are no Johnny Manziel's in this draft"


I am becoming a cliche' right before your eyes...I preach, PREACH from my soapbox, watch film, watch film...no, just go watch film....

Well, I have watched the film and before yesterday, I had 3 players grouped closely together...I have been adamant based on film study that Teddy Bridgewater, Sammy Watkins and Johnny Manziel, in that order stand apart from the rest in this draft...

Well, I have seen all the film available on all three of these guys...

Then, I watched Manziel's Pro Day, then I watched John Gruden's QB Camp, I watched Manziel's press conference...Then....I watched it all again this morning....MAN I AM PUMPED UP!!

I get this feeling week one of the NFL season, not 4 weeks before the draft begins...

This kid is not HYPE, he is a damn football player, THAT is why I am pumped up...


I rarely reset a draft board after I have seen all the tape I have seen, I did it this morning..

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind Manziel is the best prospect in this draft...He should unequivocally be the pick for the Houston Texans. They should begin contract negotiations this week and have a deal done the week leading up to the draft, signed, sealed and delivered. If somehow, 3 teams are stupid enough to pass on him AND others unwilling to move up to get him at #2, then there is absolutely no chance he should get by #4 and the Browns..I don't give a rat's arse what you guys think we might have in Brian Hoyer...With any luck, after we draft Manziel, we can showcase Hoyer and get a 2nd or 3rd round draft pick for him in the 2015 draft.

New order:

1. JOHNNY MANZIEL

2. Teddy Bridgewater
3. Sammy Watkins

everybody else...

 

Irish what about Manziels low release point ? it is almost a sidearm motion I saw on most of his throws .I see batted balls .lots of batted balls .

some of his deep balls were late getting there, under thrown . he got away with that on Saturday ball . those will get picked in the NFL .

I watched and that's what I saw . he is at his best when things break down and he has to run and make something happen .I am not convinced that he can stay in the pocket and make his reads .

can he stay out of trouble ? he is better off staying in Texas IMHO .

 

Oh you mean ala, Bernie Kosar?

Where do you see all of these batted balls?

He threw 63 balls, 2 hit the ground, one was dropped the other was off the mark...Out of 63 balls about half of them were over 30 yards, out of those 30 maybe 4 were under thrown, I watched it twice and am going off memory, but I don't remember more than 4 balls where the receiver had to wait on a ball...So if your QB throws 63 balls and 4 are under thrown, how many should you expect your WR to battle for the ball? Say 2 of the 4? Now, even if BOTH of those other throws are INTs...That is two games worth of passes, which would equate to 16 INTs per year...would you trade a guy capable of putting up 35 TDs per year to giving up 16 INTs per year? I know I would, we haven't had a QB capable of 20 TDs per year in 14 years. THAT is what Manziel gives you...

He's never been in trouble...

And you can bet he will be in either Texas, Oakland, Minnesota or Jacksonville, because if the Browns don't move up to #2, one of those other cities will and he will be their guy to take them to the playoffs perennially.
_____________________________________________________________________________

This is how I am looking at this draft, there are two ways to go about building this team...

1. The safe way, which is how you and many others want to do it...Build a stronger base around someone like Brian Hoyer, you know the way a team tries to do it who doesn't have a QB...

or

2. Find a QB that will get you in the playoffs no matter who else is on the roster


I feel that Johnny Manziel is that type of QB...He will force every player on that team to play at another level that the average QBs can't. When you have a player like that, ala Manning, then you can load, re-load or wade in high waters with your roster and STILL make the playoffs..When did Peyton Manning not make the playoffs? The only year he was injured and not leading his team there..Andrew Luck did the same thing..

If Brian Hoyer is your QB, then you had better have a top 3 running game and you had better find a way to get Sammy Watkins on this team, because that is how you will need to score points in case any season turns into a down season for your defense..Hoyer is NOT going to put the offense on his shoulders and average 28 points a week to deal with a down defense.

I can't say Johnny Manziel WILL, but he is the type of player that CAN...If he does it at the next level, I want him to be in a Browns uni. Plain and simple. We talk all the time about QBs like Manning and Luck who only come along once a generation...No QB has ever come along like Johnny Manziel. It may never happen again. You have a classic pocket passer, you have electric running guys, you have RGIII who is efficient at both..BUT he doesn't do either like Manziel does it. Same with Cam Newton, he is the closest to Manziel I have ever seen, the difference between Cam and Manziel is their between the sidelines attitude. Cam gets down and he disintegrates, Manziel has a bad start and that is when you see him AND HIS TEAMMATES at their best, because he demands it and they know he means business, not just talk.

_________________________________________________________________________________________

I know we are never going to agree on this bluez, which is fine...we won't even know who is closer to right for a few years and by then this will all be a distant memory...

I don't ever remember being this adamant about a player though and I am a pretty passionate fan. I was positive that A.J. Green was the player in 2011...The bid difference is, you can put 3-5 Green caliber players (look at the Bengals) and they will get you to the playoffs, most of the time, not all of the time...but that is the ceiling...You get a once in a lifetime QB and you are in the playoffs every single year because he makes what would be average players on other rosters look like superstars and they are always going to be Super Bowl contenders...Any one really think the Bengals are perennial Super Bowl contenders?

Would drafting Greg Robinson make the Browns Super Bowl contenders, even if he does the best job we expect of him?

Now, if Manziel does the best job as I am describing, do the Browns become Super Bowl contenders? I think they do..

Can he fail? Of course he can, as can 31 other first round draft picks regardless of position...

 

What QB's are going to be available next year ? Marriota comes to mind and I have seen him get flustered when playing against a physical defense .No thank you already .

This is a very deep draft or so the experts say *SCRATCH* .Manziel has bust or boom written all over him . as we all know there are no sure things . I was against RGME two years ago . that turned out right as he has turned into a DIVA . the Skins can have him . glad we didn't waste all those picks . if I remember right we were both wanting Foles which has turned out pretty good in Philly .

I am not against picking a QB in this years draft . but not at 4 and not trading up to do so . I love the way Farmer is playing this by not going to the " scripted " pro days which IMHO are nothing more than a dog & pony show . lets see what happens when they have him in for private workout where it isn't a scripted rehearsed show . let him or the other potential QB's have a set down with the coaching staff . get inside there heads . that may change my mind on Manziel and the rest of them .

Cam Newton is 6-6 ..he is a big man . Manziel is not so big . huge difference .

there is nothing wrong with getting some pieces in place first if Farmer isn't sure about this QB Class .we have waited for far to long to taste the good times .I am not getting any younger here . we deserve a winner in Cleveland . just get this draft right Farmer ..please ..please football Gods smile upon us . we deserve it

the Bengals are one N done come playoff time . is that all Daltons fault ?

Load up this year if the man they want isn't there . when the QB they want is there then make the move . do whatever it takes . I am waiting on the results of the private workouts .

right now Jimmy G is looking good to me in maybe the second round ..level of competition be dammed . that's overrated IMHO .

just get this right Farmer ..we have been down for far to long here .

*DRINK*

the %*&$# draft is still to far away .

I have April 7 circled . that's when we can start offseason workouts . interesting to see who lines up on the O Line . that pick at 4 may surprise some of you .

 

I am of the opinion Bridgewater will be the quarterback the Browns go after early. While I am skeptical of him at No. 4, I do know Farmer likes him very much and if he seeks to make a statement, he'll select him there. I also expect the Browns to select another quarterback later in the draft -- one of value.

- The Browns expect Blake Bortles (Central Florida) to be off the board prior to their selection at No. 4.

- Johnny Manziel (Texas A&M) intrigues the Browns, but there are serious reservations about his game. The Browns are interested to have him sit with Shanahan. Never say never, but right now I am of the strongest impression he isn't the guy.

More draft noise

The Browns may seek opportunities to land five selections within the top-50ish in the draft.

From what I have been told, the Browns are not locked in to remaining at Nos. 4, 26 and 35. The Browns have no desire to move far from No. 4 and are exploring options.

The quality and depth of this draft has the Browns? front office very excited.

More Manziel

The Browns are intrigued to a point and will know much more about Johnny Manziel ? mentally ? once he comes in for a workout and sit-down, especially with Shanahan.

As I have been noting, I am of the strongest impression Manziel is not in the discussion at No. 4, but No. 26 may be a different story upon their due diligence.

I'm not saying they won't select Manziel, but I am told there are obstacles.

Popular QB Names

During my discussions, the three quarterback names that keep finding their way to me are:

Derek Carr (Fresno State)
Zach Mettenberger (LSU)
Tom Savage (Pittsburgh)

 

I?m thoroughly convinced Irish is drinking JF kool-aid by the tanker truck full. %) *DRINK* %)



I?ve been chewing on this most of the morning. While JF?s job interview was nearly flawless there are still concerns that I saw on film that have yet to be answered, and really couldn?t during a scripted workout/interview. So here?s my take on JF?s show. *WRITE*

• Has put in the time and effort to improve his game. [/*]
• Demonstrated that he is able to make most of the throws in the pocket or on the run. Can he do it in the face of pressure? [/*]
• Accuracy is not a concern. Never really was. [/*]
• Arm strength appears to be better. [/*]
• Showed good touch on his throws. [/*]
• Can he make the deep throw across the field (opposite hash-sideline)? Especially when rolling out. [/*]
• On film I saw him misread the defense and not make the proper throws/decisions. Would miss the hot read on blitzes and bail. Would throw into double coverage missing seeing the open receiver in single coverage. (Not every time but often enough to generate some concern). As if he?d already decided who he is throwing to before coming to the LOS. [/*]
• His release point could potentially cause problems with batted balls and Int?s due to his height. 5-11 vs 6-5+ D-linemen with big wingspans. Will need an o-line to generate solid passing lanes or the OC will have to call a significant amount of roll-out plays. [/*]

In all it was a good showing that he is dedicated to his profession and I would be more comfortable should Farmer put his name on the card come May 8. I?m not sold that he is a guy that you give up multiple picks in this draft. No RGII Trades!!! If Farmer decides that he IS the guy and HOU would take #4 and #26 to get him or if HOU doesn?t take him and STL would take #4 and #26 to get him I guess I?d be ok with that. My preference would be to let the chips fall where they may. Take the BPA at #4 and go from there.

Parting thoughts?

"A Pro Day of orchestrated throws, I don't know what that tells you," Farmer said. "It's a piece of it that people blow up into this great thing. I went to a lot of games and practices this fall. I've seen them throw the ball."

Pettine said, "We?re doing our homework on all these guys and we?re gonna log a lot of miles here in the next couple weeks and hopefully we can find that quarterback that?s gonna best serve the Cleveland Browns."

We'll just have to put our faith that in the belief that Ray Farmer and Co. make the right call come draft day.

 

The word "Private" sticks out in my head....

How exactly are you going to make up your mind on a private workout that you will never see or get accurate reports about? We are in the midst of the cat and mouse game that is the NFL draft and apparently Farmer wants to be the best that ever played that game.

I personally am fine with it, because he has a scouts attitude. What you see on film is what you will get as a player. The only thing I am disappointed in is these workouts show improvements from the season to now that don't show up in film, like Manziel's footwork. Admittadly, it wasn't the best ever on film, but it looked like a different QB yesterday..big question on whether he can do it against a d-lineman instead of a broom..

2011, Dalton lost a game to get into the playoffs against the Ravens, went 50% completion, 0 TD and 0 INT
2011, Luckily made the playoffs despite his lack of effort, lost WC game, 64% completion, 0 TD and 3 INT

2012 made playoffs, lost WC game, went 47% completion, 0 TD and 1 INT

2013 made playoffs, lost WC game, went 57% completion, 1 TD and 2 INT

In playoff and playoff implication games he is 1 TD vs. 6 INT

I would absolutely answer yes to your question.

Dalton is average during the regular season, but not good when the pressure mounts in big games. He is 3 years in and should be better at managing this by now.

 

I obviously have been thinking a lot about QB at the #4 overall..Even though most of you are not on board with this, I just wanted to go in a little different direction than we have been discussing. It is obvious on two things on the subject, 1) whether you want a QB at #4 and 2) who that should be if they did...

But I do have a question that we should be able to come to some sort of consensus on:

Pretend for a minute that you are all disappointed on Thursday night and the Browns take QB X...doesn't matter who it is, because if there is a guy taken at #4, he is going to start from day one, fair enough? So my question is, if that scenario plays out, what is Brian Hoyer's value? What could we get for him immediately from team X so that he doesn't waste away on the bench behind this regime's new starter?

 

His value is equal 2 Schaub or lower IMO....he hasnt done one thing in his career for any team 2 think he is worthy of a big time starting QB.

 

So like (2) second round picks and swapping of firsts (they moved from #10 to #8)?

So maybe someone like the Cardinals at #20, swap the #26, and get their 2nd round picks in 2014 and 2015?