And here inlies the issues with this draft... I can't say I agree with the statement that there are a couple of players that are elite. I personally believe there are some very good potential players in this draft, but I don't see ANY player that begs to bring a trade up the likes of anything better than the trade value chart, which should be an ancient relic with the new rookie wage scale. No player in this draft would garner a first in this and another in 2014. No player would be looked at by a team in the teens to move into the top 3. THAT is elite. I really like Tyler Eiffert and believe he is one of the better of his position to come out in a few years, but I am not convinced he is elite. If we could pick up two 2nd round draft picks in two trade downs, then take him? Yeah, I would be very satisfied with that... This draft is destined to be just that though, satisfaction. The only player I might show a bit of disappointment in not getting at this point is Dee Milliner...That may even be my homerism in the fact he went on live radio and expressed his desire to play here...can't know for sure. So, That is why I am not going to be disappointed in trade downs if they occur SS...I know you and SAS want sure fire playmakers, but this draft simply doesn't have one, let alone a few. It is chock full of potential. I really am in like with a lot of players in the first round and even into the 3rd round, but there isn't one that I am in love with and would like to see them go all out to even move up one draft spot to ensure they get...least of which is a WR...
IMO, I think there are 8-10 difference makers based on projections in this draft in 1st round in no order 1. Jarvis Jones-if stays healthy 2. Bjoern Werner-4-3 only 3. Tavon Austin 4. Chance Warmack-15 or lower 5. Jonathon Cooper-15 or lower 6. Matt Elam-best safety in draft 7. Keenan Allen-drug test? 8. Kevin Minter-instincts and tackling ability make for a long career in NFL 9. Star Lotulelei 10. Shariff Floyd
Where's Corderelle Patterson? You were in on that conversation, weren't you? For the record, you were right to leave him off...
cmon Irish, arent u reading this right, I said for where they get drafted. If Warmack goes top 10 then no I think thats a reach for a guard who has many more holes if their team is picking top 10. If a team in the 2nd half of the draft picks him thats a great need to help give them that boost to either make the playoffs or make a run in the playoffs. For example, if the Browns drafted Warmack, IMO their not even close to a playoff team, but lets say Dallas or Pitt got him, now I think their chances increase greatly. Yes I mentioned height, but that has to do w DB's not WRs. Austin will not b covering AJ Green, Fitz, Calv etc. The kid will b a lot more than what ur giving him credit for....Percy Harvin clone. Yes I do like Patterson, but not at #8 like I see some mocks having him go. As for Minter, he may not b that guy that blows u off the charts like Ogletree, but he will b a mainstay that can coordinate ur defense for many yrs and b that rock solid beast in the middle.
So the Titans(7-9) picking at 10 has MANY more needs than the Rams(7-8-1) picking at 16? OK... Tough example, because the Titans wouldn't take a guard to replace Andy Levitre...but someone like the Bills and that running game could take it to the next level imho...perfect pairing if ever there was one. Again...OK.... So a guy that is 6'0" has a huge disadvantage over a guy that goes 6'3", but a guy being convered by that same 6'0" CB and is 3 1/2 " shorter doesn't have a disadvantage? Seems you are fence jumping...either it matters or it doesn't..historically guys under 5'9" do not succeed at the professional level, but go ahead and attach that first round draft grade to him. this is all opinions anyway. I guess the whole reason I even jumped in here is that all I hear about is getting playmakers...If you mark a guy as a playmaker, then it shouldn't matter where you are drafting. As you said, a team drafting in the top ten has many holes, filling one with a self designated playmaker is a better start than playing it safe.
Let me explain again....good teams will get the ball to their playmakers where they can succeed....I dont think u will b throwing many jump balls to Austin in the corner of the end zone. Instead get him the ball in space and let him make plays. Now, if u have a DB that is 5'9 and u get a mismatch w a 6'5 WR u can audible to a jump ball therefore thats the difference between WR and DB. Tenn should draft nothing but defense as they gave up 30+ pts in half of their games and yes I do think the Rams are better than Tenn. They have a tough defense w a really good coach. Unfortunately, their in a really good division. Having these 2 1st round picks will should get them that much closer to teams like SF and Seat. It does matter where u draft a playmaker....I think Eddie Lacy will b a real big playmaker, but that doesnt mean I draft him at #16 to replace S jack. Now at picks 30-40 I would jump at the chance to select him if I was St Louis or any other team in need of a RB.
The Definitive Move at #6 As I said, trade. Trade down a few times, probably. There's a couple moves that make a ton of sense for all parties. Traded From #6 to #11 - San Diego gets a premier LT (Lane Johnson or Eric Fisher), Cleveland gets to slide a few spots and pick up R3-76 and R4-110.[/*] Trade From #11 to #22 - St. Louis has the ammunition as well as a need for a WR like Tavon Austin. Cleveland adds R2-46.[/*] Trade From #46 to #29 - Using the newly acquired picks and a familiar face (Bill Belichick), the Browns would trade back up into the bottom of the first round to get another player with a first round grade on their board. Costs them R2-46 and R3-78... neither of which they'll technically "miss". New England lacks picks so them moving down makes a ton of sense, too.[/*] 1-22: E.J. Manuel, QB Florida State 1-29: Keenan Allen, WR California 3-68: Darius Slay, CB Mississippi State 4-110 (f/San Diego): Shawn Williams, SS Georgia 5-139: Nick Kasa, TE Colorado 5-164 (f/San Francisco): Nico Johnson, ILB Alabama 6-175: Ray Allen, P Louisiana Tech 7-227 (f/San Francisco): Zach Boren, FB Ohio State Addresses almost every remaining need, adds 4 - 5 starters.
If the Browns do this.... I'm gonna need a new TV, and boy will I be hung over for work on Friday!!! If they tade their way to get two first round picks, and go offense with both of them... That would be the dumbest move they could make and I'll dislike Lomabrdi and Banner!!!
Not bad SAS, unfortunatley I agree that we may see the Browns do another first round freefall. I think that MIA may come in w/ their extra a 2nd rd pick #54 or #42, and outbid SD. It will depend on how bad either team wants into #6, if they do. I think that MIN may be the other trade partner, as they still need to replace Percy Harvin, Jennings is only a temporary stop gap. I can't say for sure if they are going aftere a QB or not. Time will tell as they have other pressing needs on both sides of the ball.
Crex... I had assumed Miami would pursue Brandon Albert and probably make that move. If they don't, I see Miami being in play, too. If anyone heard the pre-draft press conference, Banner stressed he'd be willing to take less in trade to move down. Definitely. They've got a ton of ammo, too. You figure with two firsts so close together, they won't mind moving on one. From everything I'm reading, it's almost a guarantee they're adding a QB. I think the plan might be to slide a bit and still hope Geno Smith lands in their laps. I don't think he will -- assuming we land in the #11 or #12 spots, so they'll have to trade down a bit more and take another promising prospect in Manuel. As the comparisons flowed this week, it seems like a good fit. He'll need time to develop, so the Browns won't have to force him into the lineup Week 1. I don't think he's an upgrade over Weeden Week 1, but he's absolutely an upgrade over the long-term.
Why? They were 25th in yards and 24th in points on offense last season. They were 23rd in yards and 19th in points on defense last season. The needle favors the defense. Then consider they're moving towards a new defensive system (which takes less time to install and get familiar with than offense) that emphasizes attacking the passer and the defense should actually make strides forward next year. The offense is going to be a work in progress and getting a guy like E.J. Manuel is an investment in the future. Regardless of where you stand on Weeden, he's 8 - 9 years older than the other QBs from his class. He has a much shorter shelf-life. Drafting a physical specimen like Manuel and developing him in that offense can and will pay dividends down the road. Getting a playmaker WR in free fall (like Allen) gives the current system another ability to score.
Because I truly believe the majority for the poor offensive production last season was scheme and a lack of offensive immagination, not to mention poor play calling... The addition of Chud and Turner will increase that dramatically. And I know I keep hammering on it, but we need secondary help, DESPERATELY... we've got to get a CB opposite Haden and a S opposite Ward in the worst ways... Why not get a guy like Bray in the third round and develop him, don't waste a first round pick on a QB in a class that is extremely weak at the QB position!
Ansah isn't a 3-4 end so it won't be him(he's going 5 to the Lions anyways). I'm sure the Browns would love to have Jordan but he probably won't fall to 6. I honestly see the Browns trading down (Prob with Jets) and ending up with none of the guys in this poll. I bet they take a CB like DJ Hayden or DT Sheldon Richardson. They also need a new QB and new owner.
Fair enough. I just can't help thinking that they wouldn't keep bringing in wide receivers, back-up running backs, back-up quarterbacks and be tied very strongly to several QB candidates in this upcoming draft (via multiple reports) if they thought they were 'set' there. I don't disagree that Turner and Chudzinski can improve the offense. But to me, it's a move from 25/24 to 19/18. They need that to be Top 10. That move from 25 to 19 is actually a full 10% increase. I don't disagree. I think in the system Horton uses which devalues the cornerback positions, combined with the fact that Milliner isn't a playmaker and Lombardi reportedly likes Xavier Rhodes more leads me to believe that cornerback can -- and will -- wait. Darius Slay and Shawn Williams (in the mock draft above) are highly capable starters Day 1, despite being found in the middle rounds. The Browns have a very below average team talent-wise. I'm not sure why most people here think they have to be a Top 10 pick to be a starter immediately. FB, WR, TE, OG, OLB, ILB, CB, FS, P -- all those positions could be filled by rookies and only one or two of them are going to be first rounders.
I actually like this with a couple of points... If Eric fisher is there, I don't see how they move down 5+ spots without acquiring a 2nd rounder. Mind you I don't think Fisher will be there and the trade would be made for Lane, then you may have to settle for that 3rd. And of course our tired argument on WRs...If both Allen and Hunter were available, I would take Hunter.
I'm with you... believe me, I'd much rather pick up a second. Even though the draft value chart is considered "out of date", most trades that occur still fall within its framework. #6 = 1,600 #11 = 1,250 #45 = 450 If we trade with San Diego and demand that #45 (their second) come with, we are now in the position of owing them something (1,600 < 1,700). Our R3 (#68) is worth 100 points... so they'd more than likely ask for that. Do you give up your third for the second? I mean, I was going to say Cordarrelle Patterson, but I (1) didn't want to get run out on a rail (again) and (2) he'll be the first one off the board. Honestly, I'm not keen Keenan Allen, so I'd entertain other options. Consensus, though, only Patterson, Austin and Allen have first round grades, so I assumed taking a guy in the first would limit us to them. NFL.com has Hunter rated #9 among WRs. Draft Scout has him rated #6. Mike Mayock has him rated the highest of all sources, still at #3 behind Austin and Patterson.
Aren't you one of the biggest people saying the Browns need *Playmakers* and not just servicable starters? I thought you were against (deep hatred if I remember correctly) about trading down and just aquiring starters? That the Browns have to keep that top ten pick and get their "Julio Jones" "RG3" ? Now you're okay with trading down and just grabbing some starters? Hmmm....
SAS, I do have an hoest quesiton... With the Browns D being 23rd overall (18th vs Rush, 25th vs Pass) last season... Why are you so against getting top defensive talent in the first round this year?
