JYD ..Dont forget your baseball rosters ..you have Greinke starting this week .he is on the DL ..to late to change for this week as first pitch has already been thrown .
Bust never came out of mouth....as far as comparing ur couple of games of Calv Johnson and B Marshall.......DC's will double and sometimes triple cover those guys...I dont think Gordon is seeing that same coverage.
Then by all means, please elaborate as to what you are trying to say about Gordon here.... By the two statements above, it doesn't exactly sound like you're trying to call him a future pro bowler!
You're still missing the point. I won't call him a bust on one year's stats for the same reason you shouldn't call him a playmaker. We both see good things out of Josh Gordon. I believe he can be a difference maker on this offense. I believe you think that, too. What I do not see is another guy of that caliber anywhere on the roster. Unlike you, I'm not completely sold yet on Gordon, even. What's the absolute worst that could happen if we dip into receiver in the draft... add another playmaker? How is that a bad thing? The way I see it, we have two options: Elite quarterback, average receivers[/*] Elite receivers, average quarterback[/*] Even if Weeden isn't a bona fide bust (he is), he's worse than everyone but "Blame" Gabbert and Mark Sanchez. He needs all the help he can get just to try and make it to average. He scored 14 touchdowns last season... that's about half of what your top-tier QBs are throwing for. His TD% was lower than every starter but Ryan Tannehill. Give the poor guy some weapons and maybe we stay in some games.
Why shouldn't I call him a playmaker, the fact is, he has made plays! Does he look like Calvin Johnson after one year? No, he doesn't, does that mean he'll never do it? No... see my post above, even Calvin Johnson didn't look like Calvin Johnson in year one!!! If you can't see that Trent Richardon is a playmaker (and that Greg Little and Travis Benjamin has that potential) then there's nothing else I can say... the tape on all those kids says that! Because our pass defense will be absolutely horrible, and you'd better hop and pray that Patterson picks up the pro game pretty damn quick and becomes the playmaker you think he can, cuz we'll have to be scoring 30pts a game just to try and stay in the game! Wait... what? You mean Weeden isn't equal to Brees, Brady, Manning, or any other Top Teir QB?!?! He must be a bust then!!! Every QB who comes out their rookie year and isn't in the top ten must be bust! :rolleyes: Also, by your above statement... are you saying Tannehill is a "bona fide bust"?
Talk out of both sides of your mouth much? :/ So no way to call Gordon a bust because he has only played one year...but Weeden... Hmm seems to have been my argument for months on Weeden, but use your wisdom how ever you see fit..
Completely. Different. Situations. Josh Gordon Youngest player on the team coming from a stunted position of growth and learning to play the game gradually. Wasn't given first team reps until Mohamed Massaquoi was out indefinitely with injury. Brandon Weeden Oldest starter on offense who came "pro ready" and was handed the starting job upon being drafted in the first round. While not ideal, his conditions were much more favorable than that of Gordon. Saw more nine-man fronts than any team but Minnesota (thanks, Trent) and still managed to be league-lagging in every major category. Josh Gordon came out an impressed. No, I don't think he's a playmaker we can count on yet, but I'm cautiously optimistic he'll get there. You figure even at #39 in receiving yards, he was better than 40% of the other options (60% if you count tight ends). Brandon Weeden came out and laid an egg every chance he got. He's clearly not a playmaker and was one of the worst QBs to play the game. In fact, he was worse than 91% of all other QBs. So better than 40 - 60% of his peers, or 91% worse than his peers. In your sad, strange world... that's apparently the exact same thing.
Yep, My sad strange world looks at history in which almost every QB that has ever been drafted{the number in my head sounds like approximately 98% or so} takes more than 16 games to become a top 10 QB...Whether that is 16 games of sitting behind another starter, 16 games thrown in the fire or 16 games of getting in on occasions for some experience...Especially considering the top 10 QBs of the past decade have included about 5 names annually... Just my sad strange world of fact though...
Hey SAS.... WE GET IT, Weeden is 30, you don't like it.... He's too old, once again, we get it, still his first year in the league, he was still a Rookie, wether he is 30 or 300... HE WAS STILL A ROOKIE! Just like Gordon!!! You're right (for once, that they're in Completely differenet situations) WR is a much easier position to learn at the pro level than QB... so I think Weeden deserves alittle MORE slack than Gordon... and before you rebuttle, I'll save you some time, I know he's 30 and doesn't have alot of time to try and adjust to the pro game, but I think he should get more than one year... especially since this year he's gonna have Turner, who will use his strengths (Strong Arm) in the vertical passing game, as opposed to trying to jam a square peg into a round hole (i.e. Weeden into Shumur's horrible version of the WCO, in which Weeden was never, and will never be, suited for)
So you are saying that a player plays better against weaker defenses and worse against stronger ones. That is what should be expected.
Scuse me......(picking popcorn out of teeth)..........ok....Buuuurrrppp! Dang duff too fizzy on the kool aid.... Now........yuck! Got butter all over the keyboard..........idkrkfkndjuchoe.........ok that's better, you know we really ought to sell tickets, I mean that was awesome! It Already feels like home. Except how DID stopper get in here?! We need a new doorman.
No what Im saying is his stats were inflated vs weak defenses/teams. Calv Johnson, AJ Green, B. Marshall, J. Jones, etc do it in big games when their teams need them. Just cause a guy makes a few plays doesnt make him a playmaker. Defenses focus on them, try to take them away and they still put up big numbers. Gordon is not in that class and its really funny to put Benjamin and Little in that category.
You need to make up your mind. Is it the poor QB play or the poor receiver play or the bad coaching? It seems to change depending on the thread you are posting on. If it's the QB, then how can you accurately blame the WR? If it is the WR, then how can you blame the QB? If it is both, then maybe we are on to something, or maybe we just had a bad coaching cast that could not put together a proper game plan or effectively call plays during the games. If the WR runs a perfect out pattern and the QB throws a perfect slant, who was wrong? How do you know?
I can agree w that...it does take 2 to tango(QB and WR), but I just cant see how people make statements that the Browns already have a #1 WR. Im not syaing take 1 at #6, but to simply neglect the position cause u have Gordon and Little is pretty funny.
Nobody is saying we should put them on that category.........yet. What is being said is that there is potential to be there, they have shown flashes that with maturity and coaching could be developed. Sas expects potential to be realized immediately and if not shown then throw him out and start again. Stopper you just think all potential is squelched the moment they put on the orange helmet.
No one is saying neglect the position..What I am saying is there isn't an imminent "showstopper" in this draft...PERIOD. If there were, then he would be in the conversation. Also not calling Gordon a #1 receiver capable of tearing up any CB/defense in the league...as was put so eloquently in the post before mine...YET You use the 3 above examples, here are the first years of them: Calvin Johnson, whom I think is the best WR in the game today: Started 10 games 48 catches for 756 yards and 4 TDs, One 100 yard game, one 80 yard game his rookie season. HE had (1) 100 yard game and (1) 80 yard game...he also had a 3 and 17 yard game to his resume and missed one due to injury. He wasn't Elite his first snap of the ball A.J. Green, whom I praised as one of the best WR prospects to enter the league in 2011, took some flack for wanting a WR at the #6 pick, yet this is the example you want to use, so we will continue: Started 15 games 65 catches 1,057 yards 7 TDs, FOUR 100 yard games, a 90 yard game and 80 yard games in his outstanding rookie season... Also had, THREE 20 yard games, 2 of which were to close out the season(this was the argument made by someone, right? That Gordon maybe showed truer colors at the end of the year?) Brandon Marshall, TERRIBLE example Started 1 game 20 catches 309 yards 2 TDs He had one game over 70 yards... Julio Jones, I think this is the best example of comparison to Gordon to be quite frank. I never put him into the must have dream list that a few others did. But I always thought he was a solid player that could be the number one if that is what the team called for. He hasn't had to be that yet, due to being drafted into one of the most potent offenses in the NFL, but...: Started 13 games 54 catches 959 yards 8 TDs He had FIVE, yes FIVE 100 yard games..Excellent!!..but he also had a 0 yard game, a 9 yard game, a 16 yard game and a 29 yard game...not to mention missing 3 games for injuries. Josh Gordon? Started 13 games 50 catches 805 yards 5 TDs He had a 100 yard game, a 99 yard game and (2) 80 yard games... he too had down games to the tune of 5, 7, 16 and 29 yards respectively... Do you want to talk about sporadic coaching? This is how Josh Gordon began his career Game 1 starter, game 2 not starter, game 3 not starter, game 4 starter, game 5 not starter, game 6 starter till end of season...Man make up your mind already...YES coaching has something to do with how players perform. So I am not saying which of these WRs may enter the HOF and I am not saying which receivers will never become elite... What I am saying is that he DOES compare rookie wise to these receivers mentioned in your post...more than you are ready to admit.
